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  #21  
Old 02-14-2012, 12:08 PM
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Isn't Charles and/or Anne loved in Scotland? So why should there be a change after the queen's death?
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  #22  
Old 02-14-2012, 01:02 PM
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After the Queen

Republicans in the UK have tried to make political capital outof the personal lives of the Royal family, which i believe shows the complete paucity of their argument, they have nothing credible to offer and thus resort to spite. The Prince of Wales has long been a target, and it would be true to say that he is not as popular as his mother, however a monarchy is not a beauty contest, he is next in line to the throne and therefor he will be the next King. Princess Anne, the Princess Royal, is very popular here in Scotland, Kataryn, amongst the many organisations and charities she works for, she is President of the Scottish rugby federation and was here in Edinburgh, just last weekend, presenting the trophy to the winners of our annual Scotland v England rugby match. Her son, Master Peter Phillips chose to play rugby for the Scottish boys team, and of course her daughter, Zara Phillips, was married in Cannongate Kirk in Edinburgh, last summer. Scottish people are essentially conservative in our outlook, despite what the leftists try to tell us. We have a deep and abiding loyalty to our Crown and Queen, and i believe PASSIONATELY that this sense of loyalty will ultimately save the United Kingdom and it`s two historic Crowns.
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  #23  
Old 02-14-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by James VI View Post
We have a deep and abiding loyalty to our Crown and Queen, and i believe PASSIONATELY that this sense of loyalty will ultimately save the United Kingdom and it`s two historic Crowns.
Yes, it is sad that those two Crowns after they historically became personified by one monarch in personal union should be divided again. It is sad, though, that the Stuart kings of the UK did not protect their Scottish Crown as well as their English and did not see to it that both parts of the realm had the same rank within the kingdom. Otherwise I don't think Scotland would seek to severe what history and tradition brought together in one person as their souverain.
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  #24  
Old 02-15-2012, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by James VI View Post
Indeed so, the people of the Falkland Islands are exercising their right of self determination, in wishing to remain a British dependant territory, rather than be handed over to the Argentine republic. In reference to Scotland, when i vote in the referendum ( when the SNP finally has the guts to call one) i will not necessarily be voting on wether Scotland should become an independent state ( and eventual republic ) but on the idea of the Scottish people determining their own constitutional future, and here, i am more than optimistic that we will vote to remain a part of the United Kingdom.
Thank you, that explains what I meant quite well
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  #25  
Old 04-12-2012, 03:35 PM
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Alex Sammond has said that Queen will remain Scotland's Head of State. This has been said time and time again so I doubt he would turn round and say "sorry folks only kidding". Its been said before that Charles has actively gone out of his way to meet up with Alex Sammond, I believe he has even visited him at Birkhall.
I think its only a question of whether the Queen is Queen of a UK that includes Scotland or Queen of UK and separately Queen of Scotland just as she is Queen of Australia and Queen of Canada.

This piece explains more about what has been said so far and includes a quote from an SNP spokesperson stating the future will include "... the SNP's long-standing policy for the Queen and her successors to be head of state."

The Courier - 'A magnificent monarch'

Also:
Scotland would remain part of a United Kingdom even if it became independent, Alex Salmond declared yesterday.
The SNP leader said the Queen would still be head of state of a politically independent Scotland, meaning it would stay in ‘monarchical union’ with England.

Independent Scotland 'to keep Queen' despite majority in favour of break away | Mail Online

And:
Mr Salmond responded to suggestions on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show that voters should be asked if they want to leave the UK instead.
The First Minister said: "It is SNP policy to have the Queen as our head of state.
"That union, that United Kingdom if you like, would be maintained after Scottish political independence.
Alex Salmond defends Scotland independence referendum question - Telegraph

And also from the BBC summarizing the SNPs published plans:
"The Queen would remain as head of state under independence, and the Scottish Parliament would gain full responsibility for governing Scotland."
BBC News - At-a-glance: Scottish government referendum consultation

I really think the Queen will remain Scotland's Head of State, Scotland seems to have an affection for the Royal Family, they have very strong links. The Queen mother was Scottish, William went to university in Scotland, Princess Anne has very strong links to Scotland, there even being a suggestion once she should be a "Princess of Scotland" dedicated to supporting the monarchy in Scotland.
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  #26  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:27 PM
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Poor Alex, he so desperately wants independence for Scotland but he just bumbles along saying nothing will really change. If there is no real change what is the point of independence and why vote for it? When it comes to the economic questions he and his supporters have an even harder time explaining what things will be like and why independence is desirable. Still keep the British pound with the currency controlled by Westminster and you are not independent. Will Scotlands small population/current tax base be enough to sustain current government expenditure and services? Unfortunately the debate is already causing businesses to question whether they would really want to open a plant in Scotland or expand current operations in Scotland.
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  #27  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:37 PM
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I have my doubts about whether the Queen would actually be kept on in an independent Scotland. Salmond knows that the idea of keeping the Queen reassures people, but the vast majority of SNP members and politicians are pretty vociferously anti-monarchy. I wouldn't be surprised if Salmond were pushed by his party into holding a referendum on the issue and who knows how that would turn out.
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  #28  
Old 04-12-2012, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
I have my doubts about whether the Queen would actually be kept on in an independent Scotland. Salmond knows that the idea of keeping the Queen reassures people, but the vast majority of SNP members and politicians are pretty vociferously anti-monarchy. I wouldn't be surprised if Salmond were pushed by his party into holding a referendum on the issue and who knows how that would turn out.
IMO it is quite likely that the SNP would call for a referendum on Scotland's Head of State if they gained independence but I think that would not come until along time after any referendum on Scottish independence. I think to do so soon after this referendum would be seen as the SNP going too far by many and would open Alex Salmond up to heavy criticism for his comments about the Queen staying on. I think its safe to say the Queen will always be Queen in Scotland (Whether Scotland is independent or not) for the rest of her lifetime, the same might mot necessarily be said for her successor.
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  #29  
Old 04-12-2012, 06:23 PM
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Will there be new elections for the Scottish Assembly before the 2014 referendum? A lot can change before there is an actual referendum but right now there seems to be more support south of the border for Scottish independence than there is north of the border.
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  #30  
Old 04-27-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Will there be new elections for the Scottish Assembly before the 2014 referendum? A lot can change before there is an actual referendum but right now there seems to be more support south of the border for Scottish independence than there is north of the border.
Yes that`s true, support for independence in Scotland is currently stuck at the 30% level, below that which has been recorded in other parts of the UK. The referendum is still scheduled for some time in 2014, but of course Salmond is a devious character, he may well realise that 30% cannot be transformed into 51% simply by empty rhetoric. He will, i believe, seek a way of delaying the referendum, finding an obscure legal point to argue the toss over. He will then remain in office and lead the SNP into the next Holyrood elections which are scheduled for 2016. A defeat in these elections, will end him.
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  #31  
Old 04-27-2012, 03:23 PM
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Alex does seem to get quite flustered and blustery when questions about the economics of an independent Scotland are put to him.
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  #32  
Old 04-27-2012, 05:07 PM
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" Fluster and Bluster " ? I would`nt be too surprised if Mr Salmond had a pair of Westies with those names. I think it is the economic question which is undermining the whole case for independence. I would like to believe that people were drawing away from seperation from a sense of loyalty to the Crown and there is some polling evidence to back this up. Support for "British" institutions: the Queen, the army, the BBC etc, is on the rise in Scotland, but ultimately the fear of what might happen in the economic sphere, post-independence, will ultimately decide the issue. Incidently, my theory that Mr Salmond will attempt to delay the referendum is quite widely shared. It would be extremely damaging politically (though far worse if he lost the vote) but the SNP would stand by him as party leader for the very simple reason that without Mr Salmond, the SNP is nothing.
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  #33  
Old 04-29-2012, 12:33 PM
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It is not a question of "if" but "when" Scottis Indpendence will happen.
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  #34  
Old 04-29-2012, 02:05 PM
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You are entitled to your opinion, though of course as an outsider you do not have a vote on the matter and therefor, i fail to see the relevance of your opinion.....
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  #35  
Old 05-13-2012, 10:27 PM
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Its either a case of Alex Salmond saying one thing to appease the public in order to win a referendum vote or it is a case of the SNP not being able to agree amongst themselves what an independent Scotland would like like, at least in as far as the monarchy is concerned.

Queen 'may not remain monarch of an independent Scotland' - Telegraph
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  #36  
Old 06-11-2012, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by James VI View Post
You are entitled to your opinion, though of course as an outsider you do not have a vote on the matter and therefor, i fail to see the relevance of your opinion.....
I really don't think comments like this are in the spirit of TRF.
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  #37  
Old 06-11-2012, 03:35 AM
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I don't wish to "dumb-down" this thread, as the question of Scotland becoming independent is a very serious one. My question though is to do with the Union Flag. Will the Union Flag have to be redesigned? I love the flag because of it's colours and the jack design and on-line I have seen a picture of the flag without the blue background and saltire, which frankly I don't like.
Sorry if this is off-topic.
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  #38  
Old 06-11-2012, 04:25 AM
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Obviously if Scotland leaves the UK then the flag of Scotland would have to be removed from the Union flag.
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  #39  
Old 06-11-2012, 05:18 AM
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There's absolutely no requirement for the Scottish element of the Union Flag to be removed. When the Republic of Ireland left the Union, the cross of St. Patrick was left in. I know Northern Ireland remains in the Union, but the cross of St.Patrick is representative of Ireland as a whole and in the new Republic some Irish lawmakers debated asking the British government to remove it from the Union Flag but decided not to.

In much the same way the harp of Ireland remains within the coat of arms of the sovereign, even though it is used by the Irish Republic as their national symbol.

The Union Flag is enough of an icon on its own that I can't see the blue being removed. We could just say the blue represents the sea which surrounds our islands or something. The rest of us Brits love it as it is and I'd bet my house that it stays as it is. Plus it would be enormously expensive.
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  #40  
Old 06-11-2012, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I don't wish to "dumb-down" this thread, as the question of Scotland becoming independent is a very serious one. My question though is to do with the Union Flag. Will the Union Flag have to be redesigned? I love the flag because of it's colours and the jack design and on-line I have seen a picture of the flag without the blue background and saltire, which frankly I don't like.
Sorry if this is off-topic.
I also think that this is a very serious matter. I know here in Australia this question has been raised as the Union Jack is a large part of our flag. In this context I would keep it as is as I believe it represents Australia's history, but I can't imagine a world without the Union Flag proper flying over a nation. And what on earth would a United Kingdom of England, Northern Ireland and Wales flag look like?

I have also read that Scottish independence may have constitutional implications for Australia and other realms - Scottish Independence 'Could See The Queen Lose Sovereignty Over Australia' - as there would no longer be a "Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" as specified in some constitutions.

Personally, I cannot imagine Scotland leaving the Union and a very good Scottish friend of mine doubts it will happen as Scotland enjoys a huge number of financial benefits that people elsewhere in the UK don't receive and would probably lose if independence was gained. He thinks its the SNP playing politics, which I think is very dangerous.
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