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  #21  
Old 03-11-2013, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MarNoe View Post
I was always under the impression that Americans could NOT hold titles. That's why the founding fathers decided on an elected President rather than any type of monarchy. They knew how a system of nobility could be abused.

Makes me want to do more research on this.
Americans can't hold American titles. There is no American system of nobility. But that does not prevent them from holding foreign titles. They're noble, just not within their country.
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2013, 01:10 PM
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When I became an American citizen one of the things stated on my lengthy application was that I would have to give up any foreign royal or noble titles. That is to say any titles I would have had would have meant nothing in the United States.
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2013, 04:38 PM
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The U.S. Constitution prohibits the giving of a title of nobility by the American Government (Congress, the President, or the Judicial) or the receipt of the same "from any King, Prince, or foreign State" by high public officials during their terms of office, or by military personnel while enlisted.

Private American citizens are free to accept and use titles of any kind whatever, noble or otherwise.

Citizens of the United States like to think that we are classless and untitled, cherishing these egalitarian concepts as marks of the unique American opportunity for upward mobility in class and power. In everyday practice, however, Americans are very much aware of how to create and use
titles to establish class and wield power. A primary example of the importance of a title as a mark of power and status is the title "Ms." (rhymes with fizz), created some years ago by feminists for use in the place of "Miss" or "Mrs," both of which titles show a woman's relationship to a man. The title "Ms." is egalitarian in that it shows gender only, exactly as does the modern "Mr." (L.G. Pine, in The Story of Titles, discusses the original and modern uses of "Mister," a variation of "Master." Interestingly, like "Ms.," most royal and noble titles are themselves egalitarian in that they show gender only--for example, a Queen is not necessarily the wife of a King, a Baroness is not
necessarily the wife of a Baron.) The general acceptance and use of the once artificial "Ms." show that Americans clearly understand and acknowledge the value and importance of the title as an empowering device.

A legitimate noble title always has a legitimate royal source, called a fons honorum (Latin: "source of honor," the "fountainhead" from which the legitimate title is issued). What is important to know is that noble titles do not come from governments, but from heads of royal families, called
a "royal house." Thus, the royal house is a dynastic family holding hereditary royal title and prerogatives usually based upon modern or ancient geographical rulership; the royal dynastic family need not necessarily currently head a government or rule a nation. A government is not, of itself, royal, nor can a government declare itself royal--it is persons who are royal or
noble, and it is the head of that government who is royal. Thus, a government as an entity is not and cannot be a fons for royal or noble titles (Which makes the American Constitution's prohibition perfectly proper.). In fact, the universal practice is that a government which prefers a royal head of state doesn't create it, but goes, instead, to one of the royal houses (in Europe or elsewhere) to find a monarch to reign. Observe the actions of the British Parliament when, in 1701, it became apparent that King William and Queen Anne were not going to leave any heirs in line for the throne. Parliament wanted, of course, a Protestant sovereign, but even the British Parliament had
not the authority to create royalty, nor could the King and Queen declare an heir. Therefore, Parliament, understanding that governments do not beget royalty, began to carefully scrutinize Europe's royals, searching for a suitable candidate to come to the throne after King William's death. Having analyzed genealogies and religious proclivities, Parliament settled on the Electress of Hanover, who had the virtue of being the granddaughter of James I. However, the Electress died before the British throne became available, so the office passed to her son, George Ludwig who became King George I of England.

HMQEII bestowed knighthoods on both Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush --- AFTER they had left office.

If you have a title and an American doesn't use it when addressing you...well, they don't have to. Here you are just Ms., Mr., Mrs. or Miss.
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2013, 05:01 PM
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From the research I did I found that in 1810 congress passed an amendment to the constitution that would strip citizenship from any American who accepted a foreign royal title. However, it was never passed by the required number of states to make part of the constitution.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MarNoe View Post
From the research I did I found that in 1810 congress passed an amendment to the constitution that would strip citizenship from any American who accepted a foreign royal title. However, it was never passed by the required number of states to make part of the constitution.
Yes - see - Titles of Nobility Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In another case, when one becomes a US citizen, you have to renounce "allegiance and fealty" to a foreign ruler or state (USCIS - Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America) . You do not have to specifically renounce your title, but since you are renouncing fealty, the title is sort of silly.
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  #26  
Old 03-14-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Yes - see - Titles of Nobility Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In another case, when one becomes a US citizen, you have to renounce "allegiance and fealty" to a foreign ruler or state (USCIS - Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America) . You do not have to specifically renounce your title, but since you are renouncing fealty, the title is sort of silly.
Actually, you do have to rennounce your foreign titles when you become an American Citizen according to the US Citizenship Service. The Oath of Alligiance is slightly amended in those cases.

The Oath of Allegiance - USCIS Policy Manual - Volume 12, Part J, Chapter 2
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  #27  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:15 PM
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Is my character a prince?

Okay in this story I'm considering writing the main character is sort of like the adopted slash bastard son of a king though in some ways he's more like an apprentice to the king. He carries the title of Prince like the rest of his brothers. Some share the same mothers but most of them are all half siblings. Now all of them have their father's last name one is even named after the king in the story.

So would you say my main character is a prince?
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  #28  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:18 PM
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Well, if, as I understood, the King gave him the title, yeas, he's a Prince.

But by the standards of many Monarchies, as a "bastard", he would receive no title.
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  #29  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:24 PM
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German Royal Titles and Hierarchy

I was wondering does anyone know German royal titles and their Hierarchy I know that a sign of nobility is or was have in the word Von in the name thought I'm not completely certain about that.
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  #30  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
Well, if, as I understood, the King gave him the title, yeas, he's a Prince.

But by the standards of many Monarchies, as a "bastard", he would receive no title.
Oh okay to be honest the character and his brothers are demons and the king rules hell but he assigned each son a region on earth to rule. That's why I asked if my character was a prince because I'm not completely sure if that's something a prince does.
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  #31  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:29 PM
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I am assuming your story is set in the middle ages since the child is an adopted bastard and is called a prince.
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  #32  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:30 PM
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In most royal families he wouldn't be a prince as he is a bastard. Many royal fathers acknowledged their illegitimate children and gave them titles but not normally that of prince and that child wasn't in the line of succession.
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  #33  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:32 PM
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Oh okay to be honest the character and his brothers are demons and the king rules hell but he assigned each son a region on earth to rule. That's why I asked if my character was a prince because I'm not completely sure if that's something a prince does.
Since your story is science fiction/fantasy you can make them do what ever you want and royal real word rules need not apply.

I am sure more than one prince has at times thought his life was hell on earth.
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  #34  
Old 04-27-2013, 10:18 AM
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This thread, German Royal & Noble Titles and Protocols may help.

Refer also to these two entries in Wikipedia:
Royal and Noble Ranks
German Nobility
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