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  #81  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:13 PM
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Whatever Julia Gillard is doing or not doing the Queen is just such a wonderful sight and she has been so gracious and I am totally in love with her look the clothes are really special she and PP are very relaxed and as the woman who presented flowers again after 60 yrs ... those steady eyes ... it's wonderful.
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  #82  
Old 10-21-2011, 05:29 PM
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I read today that the ACT Chief Minister thinks the Queen could come back for Canberra's centennial in 2013. :)
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  #83  
Old 10-21-2011, 05:43 PM
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Couple of slideshows from the Queen's visit

Floriade:
Pictures - HM the Queen of Australia visits the Floriade Flower Festival - National Royal News | Examiner.com

Days 1 & 2, kangaroos and Parliament House
Pictures - Queen Elizabeth, Prince Philip, second day in Australia - National British Royal Family | Examiner.com
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  #84  
Old 10-21-2011, 05:57 PM
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Protocol offers a choice of formal greeting - either a curtsey or a bow of the head. Presumably, if the Palace publicises this ( it's on its web page) and Her Majesty doesn't mind, who are we to object? The issue is merely a media beat-up, trying to embarrass the PM. Judging by the beaming smile she bestowed on Ms Gillard when shaking her hand, I doubt that the Queen even noticed. H.E. Quentin Bryce curtsied, and as she is HM's personal representative in Australia I would have been surprised if she hadn't. Thinking about it, I believe that I, too, would bow and not curtsey should I ever be lucky enough to be presented to the Queen. This would indicate no disrespect towards her: indeed, PM Gillard has made it abundantly clear that she honours, values and respects the monarch. Actually, I have never met a serious, well-intentioned republican who didn't admire and value HM.

Equerries and aide de camps --- equerries are more common in Commonwealth countries and often provide service in the more private sphere, though not exclusively so. The female lieutenant who attended the welcoming party is currently attached to H.E., the Governor-General, and perfectly placed to provide additional service as temporary support to HM's travelling aide-de-camp.

This visit is a great success. Obviously, Her Majesty came to please and be pleased, and I'm in awe of her stamina, her good natured responses to her public and her patience with and delight at the young Australians who have greeted her. The Queen seems much more relaxed to me on this visit. We are told that she really likes Yarralumla (the GG's formal residence in Canberra), its exquisite grounds and gardens, and specifically asked for a tour to the area where the kangaroos run wild. Always an honoured presence, it is gratifying to see her smile and laugh so much: usually, she's her dutiful and dignified self but this time it seems that she's allowing herself more personal reflection and responses. Ditto, HRH Prince Phillip. It is a pity that a visit to New Zealand couldn't be scheduled as well - it is only a few hours away and we can't know when, or if, HM will be able to come to this part of the world again.

I will be attending the opening of the new Royal Children's Hospital next Wednesday. Her Majesty opened the new one in 1963 and as its patron, it's appropriate and exciting that she open this one. It is a truly spectacular building of which we're very proud, particularly of the animal enclosure which has been included to entertain the sick children.

This is proving such a happy and enjoyable visit. How much we shall miss her.
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  #85  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:36 PM
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Curtsying is so feminine, and you can't force someone to be feminine. Not everyone feels feminine, and one's own identity, as feminine or masculine, is inviolate. The PM did what suited the occasion best on all sides. Queen Elizabeth II doesn't want people feeling uncomfortable in her royal presence, I'm sure. She certainly goes to some trouble to act as if she is enjoying the other people - why would she want them to feel uncomfortable?

The Queen's Peace might be far more disturbed by forcing someone to do something they felt uncomfortable with, regarding her person.
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  #86  
Old 10-21-2011, 08:58 PM
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Historically, curtseying is demeaning to women and was intended to be so.

A lady's curtsey is a relic of those barbarous days when woman was expected to bend the knee on being ushered into the presence of any man of rank and power, as an acknowledgement of her inferiority.

Says John Aubrey, writing in 1678 "Till this time, the Court itself was unmannered and unpolished. King James's Court was so far from being civil to women, that the ladies, nay, the Queen herself, could hardly pass by without receiving some affront."

I find it pleasing that the Palace has decided to move with the times and show sensitivity towards our more democratic and gender-equality concerned times. Nor can I find that showing deference to the Crown by a bow of the head, by both men and women, in any way compromises obeisance to the Crown.

On a personal level, I was quietly gratified to note upon Her Majesty's arrival, that standing together was our Head of State, the Queen, our wonderful Governor General, our Prime Minister and the Chief Minister of the ACT (Australian Capital Territory - Canberra) - all women!
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  #87  
Old 10-22-2011, 12:43 AM
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Footage from the presentation of Colours to RMC Duntroon - Department of Defence Video Gallery
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  #88  
Old 10-22-2011, 01:07 AM
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I hold not a single concern or hesitation for it as I'm not so insecure in myself to feel as though I'm demeaning my very existence or my gender. In this regard I have nothing to prove nor do I have any war to wage against the structures of what has now become the individual’s ideology of etiquette.

There are cultural observances that are known to have evolved from demands that do not necessarily reflect the best of humanity, though that does not suggest that the reasons why people choose to act in a certain manner in modern times are for the same reasons people were forced to behave in times since past. Again, have we not (and I speak here of western society) advanced into creatures of conscious choice and who are fortunate enough to exercise those rights whichever way we approve?

In the current age I personally don't find this topic to have anything to do with gender equality, though for whatever reason(s) relevant to some, there are those who appear to make it into a case whereby one sex is being treated in a manner that is degrading.

For me (someone who is themselves an involved advocate of women rights), I believe it to be nonsense and certainly anyone who decides to maintain such etiquette is doing so by choice as we have the choice to make these very decisions for ourselves.

Imo, there is neither moral high ground to be won nor any progress to be made as a result of whether or not a woman chooses to curtsey or bow her head. For me it does not signify oppression in the current day but a cultural intrigue that I find rather charming and would myself be content to observe. Others will disagree, naturally.

Whether someone curtsey’s, bows their head or shakes hands, it is equally relevant for those who feel comfortable to do so.
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  #89  
Old 10-22-2011, 01:52 AM
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I believe that there was a time when women curtsied to each other in greeting. As for John Aubrey, I see nothing about curtsying in the quote. The suggestion is that there was something being done to women rather than by women that was offending them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
Says John Aubrey, writing in 1678 "Till this time, the Court itself was unmannered and unpolished. King James's Court was so far from being civil to women, that the ladies, nay, the Queen herself, could hardly pass by without receiving some affront."
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  #90  
Old 10-22-2011, 02:46 AM
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There are many men and women in the armed forces who, I am sure, don't feel comfortable saluting a General, perhaps they should follow the example of Ms Gillard and show their individuality by not saluting?
The Duke of Windsor demanded a curtsey to his wife, it was not "off with their heads", but if they wanted to be invited again into this particular royal presence they would.
As to the Queen beaming at Ms Gillard being a sign of her not minding at all, I don't think there could be anyone in the world with better manners than The Queen.
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  #91  
Old 10-22-2011, 05:17 AM
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A very nice gallery

BBC
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  #92  
Old 10-22-2011, 05:40 AM
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Australian PM Julia Gillard still can't manage a curtsey for the Queen | Mail Online

Don't know if these pics have been posted before, but a good read none-the-less. In response to above comments re Julia Gillard, curtsey or no-curtsey, she still should have sung the "God Save The Queen". But she had her mouth zipped
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  #93  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:39 AM
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I would think that in today's world a curtsey is intended as a mark of respect, not as a representation of female 'inferiorness'. While I believe that the Prime Minister should have bowed even if it is optional, I do think we should all agree to disagree and move on - this is a truly wonderful tour and we should all be happy that the Queen is even here.
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  #94  
Old 10-22-2011, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley View Post
I would think that in today's world a curtsey is intended as a mark of respect, not as a representation of female 'inferiorness'. While I believe that the Prime Minister should have bowed even if it is optional, I do think we should all agree to disagree and move on - this is a truly wonderful tour and we should all be happy that the Queen is even here.
Too true. At 85 she is a remarkable woman - I guess we should all takes the positives out of the tour - even myself !!!
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  #95  
Old 10-22-2011, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystiblue View Post
Australian PM Julia Gillard still can't manage a curtsey for the Queen | Mail Online

Don't know if these pics have been posted before, but a good read none-the-less. In response to above comments re Julia Gillard, curtsey or no-curtsey, she still should have sung the "God Save The Queen". But she had her mouth zipped
I was also suprised that no one sang along to God Save the Queen - I'm a teenager with no connection to Britain whatsoever and I know the words, so Julia Gillard and the rest have no excuse. Like it or lump it, she's still our Queen
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  #96  
Old 10-22-2011, 09:38 PM
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Yes she is still our Queen but that does not mean we have to sing another countries national anthem,
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  #97  
Old 10-23-2011, 12:31 AM
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It's called the Royal Anthem here and is used on Remembrance Day in addition to O CANADA.
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  #98  
Old 10-23-2011, 12:57 AM
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It's called the Royal Anthem here and is used on Remembrance Day in addition to O CANADA.
Quite so. It's observed as the Royal Anthem here in Australia also. Though evidently there are those who are unaware that that is it's actual function when played.
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  #99  
Old 10-23-2011, 01:15 AM
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Exactly - when she is here it is appropriate to have the royal anthem played and for Australians to actually sing it.

In the same proclamation that Sir Ninian Stephen made in 1984 to establish Advance Australia Fair as the national anthem he proclaimed God Save the Queen as the Royal Anthem to be played/sung whenever the monarch or the monarch's representative is present in Australia.
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  #100  
Old 10-23-2011, 01:24 AM
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Church and chow mark Queen's Sunday - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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