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  #81  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:15 PM
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So what everyone thinks privately is that Chinese people are "slitty-eyed"? Hmmm.
Oh please. How many people have called the chinese yellow? And yes, I've often heard people from all walks of life call them 'slitty-eyed'. You can try and convince yourself that the world is full of people hand in hand singing in perfect harmony but it aint. Why should he respect other races? Why should he be told what to think and what to say?
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  #82  
Old 02-04-2006, 08:54 PM
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When he's performing his public duties as the consort to the Queen, who's part of the government, he has a responsibility to support her. He isn't being supportive of the head of state, on an official visit to another country, by publicly insulting the citizens of that country.

Of course he's entitled to his own opinions, and he's entitled to express them in private to his heart's content, as are the rest of us. In public, he isn't. We may believe all sorts of un-PC things about politics, religion, race, sex, or whatever, but if we come out with them in public we could be in trouble because of hate-speech legislation. He doesn't have any more right than the rest of us to ignore that. There's any amount of difference between what we can say in private and what we can say when we're at work.
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  #83  
Old 02-04-2006, 08:55 PM
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We may believe all sorts of un-PC things about politics, religion, race, sex, or whatever, but if we come out with them in public we could be in trouble because of hate-speech legislation.
Don't get me started on that! LOL.
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  #84  
Old 02-04-2006, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth
When he's performing his public duties as the consort to the Queen, who's part of the government, he has a responsibility to support her. He isn't being supportive of the head of state, on an official visit to another country, by publicly insulting the citizens of that country.

Of course he's entitled to his own opinions, and he's entitled to express them in private to his heart's content, as are the rest of us. In public, he isn't. We may believe all sorts of un-PC things about politics, religion, race, sex, or whatever, but if we come out with them in public we could be in trouble because of hate-speech legislation. He doesn't have any more right than the rest of us to ignore that. There's any amount of difference between what we can say in private and what we can say when we're at work.
Exactly. Thank you for making clear the problem with what Prince Philip said. I've referred to Prince Philip now twice as consort to the Queen. As the consort of the monarch on a state visit, he isn't expressing his opinion in private but as a part of the government, and my concern lies in the fact that as a Canadian citizen, the consort to our Queen was being blatantly racist and insulting to citizens of a counry on an official visit and thus was reflecting poorly on the UK, Australia, Canada, the rest of the Commonwealth, etc.

As for BeatrixFan's comment regarding the fact that you've heard Chinese people being referred to as yellow and that many people call them "slitty-eyed", I don't understand why the mere fact that there are people who choose to make these comments, makes it OK. But I guess being brought up in a country that teaches people to be respectful of other races and not ridicule the differences of others, and prides itself on its multicultural policy puts me in the minority here on this board, where "why should he respect other races?" is an actual question.
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  #85  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:00 AM
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As for BeatrixFan's comment regarding the fact that you've heard Chinese people being referred to as yellow and that many people call them "slitty-eyed", I don't understand why the mere fact that there are people who choose to make these comments, makes it OK.
Because it's what people think. It's the impression we get and the connotation from their race. I'm not saying it's OK, I'm saying that if people want to say that then they have a perfect right to do so and IMO, Prince Philip is no different.

Quote:
"why should he respect other races?" is an actual question

Well why should he? Why should any of us?
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  #86  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Because it's what people think. It's the impression we get and the connotation from their race. I'm not saying it's OK, I'm saying that if people want to say that then they have a perfect right to do so and IMO, Prince Philip is no different.




Well why should he? Why should any of us?
Because respect is a basic human principle. Lack of respect is what caused a young man to walk into a gay bar and hack and shoot people (in the States). Lack of respect always leads down the wrong road (and in many cases, it leads to hate and violence). Although we may not agree with the various aspects of the culture or lifestyle of others, we should still respect them. I know that some people make jokes about other cultures; many times it is all in fun and the person means no harm. We have to remember that some people do mean harm. There is a difference between asking legitimate questions about the actions of various social groups and disrespecting them. I'll go back to the young man and the gay bar. No one has to approve of gay/lesbian marriage, civil unions, or the state of being gay/lesbian. However, we should still respect everyone for the human being they are. That should also go for Prince Philip.
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  #87  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:37 AM
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I don't believe it is a basic human principle. Am I to automatically give my respect to suicide bombers because they are of a different race? I'm gay myself and I don't expect anyone to respect, agree or disagree with my lifestyle. Why should anyone respect me because they're told to? If they disagree with what I do, why should they respect me? Prince Philip shouldn't have to respect anyone who hasn't earned his respect. Look at the comments he made about the Russians - "The bastards murdered half of my family". Should he respect them?
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  #88  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by politikgirl
regarding the fact that you've heard Chinese people being referred to as yellow and that many people call them "slitty-eyed", I don't understand why the mere fact that there are people who choose to make these comments, makes it OK. But I guess being brought up in a country that teaches people to be respectful of other races and not ridicule the differences of others,
The fact that you are commenting on another countrys humour and those differences, possibly means that the 'respect for other races' got thrown out of the window. I read from Canada's 50% reduction in the amount of immigrants/asylum seekers it takes, that their pride in a multicultural policy had come to an end.

1000's of Chinese girls have operations every year to reduce the 'slitty eye' look, many of them never having heard Prince Philips joke.
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  #89  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I don't believe it is a basic human principle. Am I to automatically give my respect to suicide bombers because they are of a different race? I'm gay myself and I don't expect anyone to respect, agree or disagree with my lifestyle. Why should anyone respect me because they're told to? If they disagree with what I do, why should they respect me? Prince Philip shouldn't have to respect anyone who hasn't earned his respect.
I think there are different kinds of "respect":

The one, "respect" in the sense of regarding something as very positive and even admiring it, the ther one in the sense of "live and let live".
I suppose you expect people to show you the second kind of respect. So I think, yes, this should apply to Philip too.
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  #90  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:45 AM
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I don't expect anyone to show me any kind of respect. I feel that's the problem with today's world - everyone wants respect automatically, whereas it should be earned. And has the world really earned Philip's respect after the horrid things that have been said about him? After the horrors that were committed on his family? I don't think so.
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  #91  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Smilla
I think there are different kinds of "respect":

The one, "respect" in the sense of regarding something as very positive and even admiring it, the ther one in the sense of "live and let live".
I suppose you expect people to show you the second kind of respect. So I think, yes, this should apply to Philip too.
It really doesn't work that way. I feel no respect for the people demonstrating against a cartoon at the moment, are they applying a live and let live attitude, are people who don't like Philips wit?
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  #92  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon
It really doesn't work that way. I feel no respect for the people demonstrating against a cartoon at the moment, are they applying a live and let live attitude,
No, they aren't. And I suppose we both disagree with strongly, up to a point where it is quite tempting to behave similarly.
But still I suppose neither you nor I will send them death threts or torch their embassies or tell them their heads should be cut off? This is what I mean with "respect" - it's a far cry from admiration, but it meanas treating people like fellow human beings.
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  #93  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I don't expect anyone to show me any kind of respect. I feel that's the problem with today's world - everyone wants respect automatically, whereas it should be earned.
True ... And it works both ways. Disrespect must be earned too - it shouldn't automatically be assumed or given. Just because someone is of a certain race ... we should disrespect them??? I think Philip is confusing disrespect for a country's government with disrespect for the entire population of a country. Despite what my politicians are trying to tell me (in order to boost trade of course), I trust neither the Russian or Chinese governments. That doesn't mean I have anything against the Russian or Chinese people - in fact the opposite - I feel extreme sympathy for them!
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  #94  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:56 AM
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Smilla, that sounds like a conflicting view. You're saying that it's wrong for them to send death threats etc but they still deserve respect?
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  #95  
Old 02-05-2006, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Smilla, that sounds like a conflicting view. You're saying that it's wrong for them to send death threats etc but they still deserve respect?
I don't seem to be able to make myself understood. Maybe our languages work differently. Of course it's wrong to send death threats! But respecting these people as fellow human beings means that I can't simply send death threats in return, even if I felt like it. Even if I thought they richly deserved this. Because they are humans, too, and ought to be treated as such.
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  #96  
Old 02-05-2006, 11:05 AM
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I don't believe they are humans. Not in the slightest. Threatening to kill people? Burning embassies? It doesn't sound like a human being to me - it sounds like an animal. Prince Philip is in a position where he's told to respect everyone and make it seem as if he's pleased to see them all - but why on earth should be actually truly have respect for them? What have they ever done for him? What have they done to show that they want his respect?

In Britain in the 1950s, words such as 'wog' and 'nigger' were used so regularly that members of the older generation still use them. And as a result, so do their children and their children, so the words are still used. Just because governments want to pretend we're all happy and that we all want a multi-cultural society it doesn't mean we actually do. When respect starts to curb the freedom of speech then is it respect or is it just an excuse to shut someone up from saying something that isn't deemed politically correct? That's what people are trying to do with Philip and I find it annoying and childish. He's of the generation where you called a spade a spade. He still lives that way and he's told off for it.
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  #97  
Old 02-05-2006, 11:22 AM
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Why are we discussing the Danish cartoons in the British forums? They have nothing to do with Prince Philip.

This is a politically sensitive issue and I'm sure Elspeth, Warren, Martine would agree with me that we would appreciate it if you kept this discussion out of the British forums.
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  #98  
Old 02-05-2006, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I don't believe they are humans. Not in the slightest. Threatening to kill people? Burning embassies? It doesn't sound like a human being to me - it sounds like an animal.
Just because governments want to pretend we're all happy and that we all want a multi-cultural society it doesn't mean we actually do. When respect starts to curb the freedom of speech then is it respect or is it just an excuse to shut someone up from saying something that isn't deemed politically correct?
Fine. They might behave like animals, but I'm not going to do the same because I don't want to behave like an animal. What would you do with them? Shoot them all?
This has nothing more to do with Prince Philip, so I'll come back to him. You can call a spade a spade and still be minimally polite to people who've come to greet you.
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  #99  
Old 02-05-2006, 11:28 AM
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We weren't talking about being polite - we were talking about respect and the two are very different.
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  #100  
Old 02-05-2006, 11:31 AM
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The way you talk to somebody has very much to do with whether you give them some basic respect, as does the way you treat somebody.
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