The Sun Newspaper's "Nazi Salute" Publication (and Response): July 2015


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The Queen Mother's reputation is damaged forever now, no question. It's very unfair IMO as a lot of the British upper classes were sympathetic to the Nazis in the 1930's without having a clue about how evil they were.
 
.. they where clearly making fun of the Nazis AND NOT sympathetic`....
 
angela said:
The Queen Mother's reputation is damaged forever now, no question. It's very unfair IMO as a lot of the British upper classes were sympathetic to the Nazis in the 1930's without having a clue about how evil they were.
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Not really. A lot of the British upper classes, including King George VI himself, supported appeasement before the war, but very few were actually sympathetic to the Nazis. I can't say if they saw the Nazis as "evil", but they were fully aware that the Nazi regime was a dictatorship, which was in turn at odds with the liberal beliefs of most of the British elite.

As far as the King is concerned, what matters is that he acted constitutionally standing by the government in the decision to continue the war against Germany after the fall of France and, moreover, he and his wife became fully engaged in the war effort, even refusing to leave London at the height of the Batrle of Britain in order not to hurt British morale. That is their historic legacy and I don't think that silly Balmoral reel changes anything in that respect.
 
Stepping back from all the specifics, I just feel particularly bad for the Queen with regard to all of this. I know she's accustomed to the media being difficult, but this just seems particularly below the belt. Just the gall of having something like this brought out in such a distorted way, and tying the Queen and her beloved mother to something so horrible, it must be upsetting. I mean, although I first saw the story last night, seeing all the headlines about it when I woke up this morning was just so disheartening. That said, most of the reaction I've seen online from ordinary people I know has very much had a "leave the Queen alone!" attitude.
 
Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt
Buckingham Palace has, in the past, pursued @TheSun for breach of copyright.

Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt
Buckingham Palace will now have to decide whether or not to take legal action against @TheSun for breach of copyright or breach of privacy.

Peter Hunt @BBCPeterHunt
Royals still trying to establish how @TheSun got hold of the 30s home movie of two future queens and a future king giving the Nazi salute.
 
I get the distinct feeling that all is not going to go well for The Sun. Publishing that video clip/pictures was perhaps the worst move any publication could have made and its going to come back and bite them in the butt. Not only legally but from what I've seen, there's been a massive outrage by the public for this blatant attack on HM and her family. The publishing of that media served absolutely no purpose whatsoever and I believe it was done in pure malice against The Queen and her family.

I'm hoping The Sun will have to close its doors permanently after this fiasco.
 
There have been some TV programs that discussed Edward VIII ties with Hitler. Here's one program I found on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHgtUNVlFJc

Again the paper should have kept the focus on him. The editors of The Sun went for shock and awe in the headlines, but it came out as shock and awe-ful. If The Sun wasn't gunning for the Queen, why did the headlines have "Their Royal Heilnesses"? Memes are coming out now on social media about the salute. The Sun grossly miscalculated here. As for the footage getting into the hands of the Sun, it sounds like an inside job.
 
I wonder how long the The Sun had the images and where fetched? why only now they published them?

This will not affect the image of the Queen. And the cover of The Sun is a huge exaggeration.
 
When I saw the pics I was mildly surprised but than the reaction was just like the majority of the common people: "Pleeease!" She was kid, probably she was even told to raise her arm... And I agree with the palace's statement: look at the context, with hindsight. Besides, the queen's action afterwards speak for themselves... Nothing to add. Hope many will cease to talk about this in order not to make more favours to the newspaper!:flowers:
 
As soon as I saw that photo I knew exactly what they were doing. They being the Queen Mother with hand raised & Prss Elizabeth. It is nothing whatever to do with saluting. Look at the legs. Arms swinging high and taking large steps as you do when stepping out a sort of exercise. NOTHING to do with saluting.
Honestly I hope the Sun get more than black eyes or mud pies for this nonsense.
Also in 1933, weren't the Nazi only just forming then? I don't think the Heil salute came till much later.
 
Videos:
Former Buckingham Palace Press Secretary Dickie Arbiter has told ITV News that the leaking of archive footage showing the Queen as a young child, giving a Nazi salute in the grounds of Balmoral, is likely to cause anger amongst Palace officials. The footage, obtained and published by 'The Sun' newspaper, is thought to have been filmed in 1933, but Mr Arbiter says its emergence should not be allowed to tarnish the Queen's reputation as she prepares to celebrate her 90th birthday next year-
Home - ITNSource News

The Managing Editor of The Sun newspaper has defended his decision to publish footage showing the Queen mimicking a Nazi salute as a young child. Speaking to ITV News, Stig Abell said the video - believed to have been filmed in the grounds of Balmoral in 1933 - is of genuine public interest and historical significance, and denied claims it represents an attack on Her Majesty. A statement issued by Buckingham Palace earlier today accused the paper of exploiting the Queen's personal family archive-
Home - ITNSource News
 
Rupert Murdoch hates Royals. Any and all royals. And therefore to make them look bad He believes sells newspapers. He is vile, and many other things besides.
What I would really love to see in this 21st century is for the media to pull its head in and print truthful stuff not made up rubbish. They can't even get a normal story correct.
Just look at all the rubbish we are subjected to with celebrities.
If only the majority of newspaper & magazine buyers would boycott the most outtrageous publications and get their news from the net instead. Until Editors and Owners Wake UP!!! That we the people won't stand for this sort of nonsense.
I would love for BP to send Murdoch to the poor house. He is not a fit human being to be in a position to influence people through his media.
 
According to the Telegraph, the Palace have opened an investigation into how the Sun obtained the video and whether to take legal action over it.
 
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Tarlita said:
Also in 1933, weren't the Nazi only just forming then? I don't think the Heil salute came till much later.
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The NSDAP were active from the early 1920s and part of their (unfortunate) selling point was the salutes and the uniform with connotations of stability and order, as opposed to Weimar republic chaos. By early 1933 Hitler was Chancellor of Germany and had a fairly large amount of power.

(Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, it's a while since I studied this, and it's nearly my bedtime!)
 
Isabella said:
Stepping back from all the specifics, I just feel particularly bad for the Queen with regard to all of this. I know she's accustomed to the media being difficult, but this just seems particularly below the belt. Just the gall of having something like this brought out in such a distorted way, and tying the Queen and her beloved mother to something so horrible, it must be upsetting. I mean, although I first saw the story last night, seeing all the headlines about it when I woke up this morning was just so disheartening. That said, most of the reaction I've seen online from ordinary people I know has very much had a "leave the Queen alone!" attitude.
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I so agree ! I don't think it will do her harm as it is so below the belt the people will be revolted.:eek:
 
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Osipi said:
I get the distinct feeling that all is not going to go well for The Sun. Publishing that video clip/pictures was perhaps the worst move any publication could have made and its going to come back and bite them in the butt. Not only legally but from what I've seen, there's been a massive outrage by the public for this blatant attack on HM and her family. The publishing of that media served absolutely no purpose whatsoever and I believe it was done in pure malice against The Queen and her family.

I'm hoping The Sun will have to close its doors permanently after this fiasco.
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I agree that The Sun, which surely thought it had a fantastic scoop with this, is likely going to suffer plenty of backlash for this. They were likely prepared for any legal consequences (tabloids know they're going to get sued, so they prepare), but I, too, am under the the impression that most public anger is directed at The Sun for trying to stir up trouble. Most reaction I've heard, from individuals or other publications, has been quite protective of the Queen. Much of the story at this time seems to revolve around how/why The Sun obtained the video, rather than taking the bait and trying to figure out if the Queen is a Nazi sympathizer or something. So I'm thinking things aren't going quite the way The Sun had planned.

Unfortunately, I doubt The Sun will be closing its doors anytime soon. I think it's been pretty well established that the British tabloids are up to no good, in variety of ways, and yet the News of the World is the only tabloid that actually got shut down (and even then, I believe they just shifted much of the staff over to other publications, including The Sun). I think a lawsuit is about as much punishment as they'll face, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
 
MissP said:
The NSDAP were active from the early 1920s and part of their (unfortunate) selling point was the salutes and the uniform with connotations of stability and order, as opposed to Weimar republic chaos. By early 1933 Hitler was Chancellor of Germany and had a fairly large amount of power.



(Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, it's a while since I studied this, and it's nearly my bedtime!)
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Your right in 1933 he was already doing shocking things to Jews etc there are lots about it on this thread. I don't think saying he wasn't helps. We know the Queen was only a little girl so of course had no idea but the Adults are a different matter.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
 
I feel so horribly for the Queen. It seems to me this has been coming on all week-first Phillip's comments, which are no surprise at any given time (he's a harmless old man with a wicked sense of sarcastic humor) but the media brought attention to it this last week.
Then this.
A part of me feels that with the coming of this September, when the Queen will become the longest reigning monarch, some would like no better than to kill her with a heart attack before that can happen....ruin and humiliate her. It makes me very angry.
I hope those responsible pay a heavy price.
 
They were not mind readers. They had no idea what was going to happen. To criticize someone for their actions before events occur is ludicrous.


As the Sun and other papers fling mud around and hope something sticks, they may want to remember that DM and other papers published pro-Hitler/Nazi articles as late as 1938. The most well known is the 1934 article "Hurrah for Blackshirts". And what about the fact that Britain, USA, Canada and many other countries attended the 1936 Olympics - which could be interpreted as a sign of approval. And the football team in 1938 giving the Nazi salute. These are all events that occurred AFTER this family film.
Context, context, context
 
This may be a little off the beaten path but I really want to express how much these discussions mean to me. Just by The Sun publishing an ages old video of HM and family doing a supposed Nazi salute, threads like these not only allow us to express outrage and disgust at The Sun's actions but also takes us through a history lesson of the times of the rise of the Third Reich.

We not only then express outrage and disgust but outrage and disgust with good reasons behind it.

Thank you all.
 
Hunt for source of leaked royal Nazi salute film footage - Telegraph
Palace opens investigation as it accuses The Sun of 'exploiting’ the Queen and the memory of her family while considering legal action

Buckingham Palace is considering legal action over the leaking of film footage apparently showing the Queen and her mother performing a Nazi salute.

The Palace has also begun an inquiry into how the 17-second film clip ended up in the hands of The Sun newspaper and if there was “any criminality” *involved.

It will call in police if it finds any evidence the footage was stolen from the Royal Archives, housed at Windsor Castle, The Telegraph understands.
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Queen's 'Nazi salute' was simply larking for the cameras - Telegraph
We are being told by some in the media that the publication of private footage taken at Birkhall – not Balmoral as claimed – of Edward, Prince of Wales (later the Duke of Windsor), with the Duchess of York (later Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother), and Princess Elizabeth and Princess Margaret is in the national interest, that it sets fascism and Nazism and the British reaction to it into historical context.

Well, I have seen all the footage – I suspect this was filmed by the Duke of York (later George VI) – and it was nothing more than a family in private larking about for the camera. What was most interesting to observe was the comfortable relations between the future Edward VIII, his sister-in-law and nieces, which alas did not survive the abdication of 1936.
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Yesterday's article.
Fury after The Sun publishes footage of Queen being taught Nazi salute | Daily Mail Online
Respected military historian James Holland told The Sun: 'They are all having a laugh, there are lots of smiles, so it's all a big joke.

'I don't think there was a child in Britain in the 1930s or 40s who has not performed a mock Nazi salute as a bit of a lark.

'It just shows the Royal Family are as human as the next man.'
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A stupid front page from the Mirror.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKOZe82WwAEBSvE.jpg:large

As I said in a previous post, the Queen has dedicated her life to the UK and the Commonwealth, and she was with her parents, sister and Winston Churchill a symbol of peace during World War II. She was a child when this film was shot, and she is almost 90. The Sun front page was disgusting and it shows how far the UK media is willing to go.

And as a palace source said yesterday: "Most people will see these pictures in their proper context and time. This is a family playing and momentarily referencing a gesture many would have seen from contemporary news reels.

"No one at that time had any sense how it would evolve. To imply anything else is misleading and dishonest."

The source added: "The Queen and her family's service and dedication to the welfare of this nation during the war, and the 63 years the Queen has spent building relations between nations and peoples speaks for itself."
 
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Tarlita said:
As soon as I saw that photo I knew exactly what they were doing. They being the Queen Mother with hand raised & Prss Elizabeth. It is nothing whatever to do with saluting. Look at the legs. Arms swinging high and taking large steps as you do when stepping out a sort of exercise. NOTHING to do with saluting.
Honestly I hope the Sun get more than black eyes or mud pies for this nonsense.
Also in 1933, weren't the Nazi only just forming then? I don't think the Heil salute came till much later.
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Hitler became Chancellor in January 1933. The Reichstag fire took place in February and gave Hitler an excuse to arrest the Communist MPs and basically impose martial law. New elections were held in March and, shortly after, Hitler, with an increased plurality, managed to secure approval in the Reichstag of the Enabling Act, which basically allowed him to rule by decree and become a dictator. By July 1933, all non-Nazi parties had already been banned and Germany was already a one-party state.

Assuming the Balmoral footage was shot in the summer of 1933, Hitler was already in full control in Germany by then.

As for the Nazi salute, it long pre-dates Hitler's rise to power. It had been in use since the 1920's.
 
angela said:
The Queen Mother's reputation is damaged forever now, no question. It's very unfair IMO as a lot of the British upper classes were sympathetic to the Nazis in the 1930's without having a clue about how evil they were.
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With all due respect, no it isn't.

Firstly although I hate the headline that went with this article, which in my opinion is truly offensive, the actual article laid no blame with HMQ or her mother. They laid the blame with the THEN Prince of Wales (later Edward VIII).

In fact most of Europe were pro Germany in 1933 because the great fear was communism. no one knew what was going to happen in 1933, not even the future Edward VIII.

The Sun should be condemned for the headline and pathetic hindsight view. But the big question is where they got this information. It is Royal property and the BRf could pursue this in terms of breach of copyright.

In the Uk I think it's fair to say that the public are v unhappy with the Sun's report.

As an aside, the left wing/ republican paper The Observer (sister Sunday paper of the Guardian) have stated strongly today that the BRF should release all the info on their pro nazi info (what???)

however, I found this from 2011 where they wanted the DM let off their pro nazi sympathies in 1933. Hypocrites. It is important to know where each newspaper in the UK stands on the monarchy.

Don't damn the Daily Mail for its fascist flirtation 80 years ago | Media | The Guardian
 
cepe said:
As an aside, the left wing/ republican paper The Observer (sister Sunday paper of the Guardian) have stated strongly today that the BRF should release all the info on their pro nazi info (what???)
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Yes, I saw it.
 
The key questions for me are as follows.

Where did the paper question get the photo?
Who had/has an access to the family photos of the British royals to sell them?

On a different note ... If the British in general and members of the British royal family in particular shared some aspects of the German ideology at the time, it should not be surprising.
 
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You know it a little ironic this happened right after the Visit to Germany.

But I have to say:

The Sun paper really is a disgusting piece of trash (I like use much stronger words but i won't) and Ruper should be ashamed. He has a agenda and thankfully this time it backfired on him! They are the lowest of the lowest type of tabloids

Luckily most people (even anti monarchist!) have common sense and are seeing it for the context of the time. The Queen was only 7.


The bigger question is How The Sun got a hold of it?
 
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The bigger question is why the Tories, supposedly the party that stands for tradition and monarchist legacy more than any other, support Murdoch against all evidence that he actually only circumstantially abides by the same values, and in essence has long been a republican in disguise and with an agenda.
The whole issue that came up in the last weeks about the possibility of a BBC-downsizing sponsored by the Tory government in order to facilitate the business of the Murdoch-empire, should precisely show to everyone how obvious, unexplicable and dangerous this liaison is.
 
Hmm, I find those that postulate that the BRF had Nazi sympathies based on a few (17?) seconds of a home movie, to be specious at best. After all, Hitler and his policies were not deemed evil enough in any way whatsoever when deciding to attend the Berlin Olympics in 1936, three years after said home movie was made.

My only serious question remains, how did the Sun come to be in possession of said movie clip? Why they released it is becoming clearer hour by hour.
 
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Boycotting this and other rags,is a good thing to do but Murdoch doesn't care about losing money if he feels he can have power and influence. The New York post, one of the three daily big NYC papers has been losing money since he bought it and ruined it in the early 1980's. He just pours money into it for power and ego.
 
Given the furor over the "Nazi" story, I think Rupert Murdoch is going to look at the long term danger to the bottom line and throw someone under the bus, namely the reporter who wrote the story and the editor who signed off on it.
 
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