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  #81  
Old 07-18-2015, 08:40 PM
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This may be a little off the beaten path but I really want to express how much these discussions mean to me. Just by The Sun publishing an ages old video of HM and family doing a supposed Nazi salute, threads like these not only allow us to express outrage and disgust at The Sun's actions but also takes us through a history lesson of the times of the rise of the Third Reich.

We not only then express outrage and disgust but outrage and disgust with good reasons behind it.

Thank you all.
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  #82  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:04 PM
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Hunt for source of leaked royal Nazi salute film footage - Telegraph
Quote:
Palace opens investigation as it accuses The Sun of 'exploiting’ the Queen and the memory of her family while considering legal action

Buckingham Palace is considering legal action over the leaking of film footage apparently showing the Queen and her mother performing a Nazi salute.

The Palace has also begun an inquiry into how the 17-second film clip ended up in the hands of The Sun newspaper and if there was “any criminality” *involved.

It will call in police if it finds any evidence the footage was stolen from the Royal Archives, housed at Windsor Castle, The Telegraph understands.
Queen's 'Nazi salute' was simply larking for the cameras - Telegraph
Quote:
We are being told by some in the media that the publication of private footage taken at Birkhall – not Balmoral as claimed – of Edward, Prince of Wales (later the Duke of Windsor), with the Duchess of York (later Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother), and Princess Elizabeth and Princess Margaret is in the national interest, that it sets fascism and Nazism and the British reaction to it into historical context.

Well, I have seen all the footage – I suspect this was filmed by the Duke of York (later George VI) – and it was nothing more than a family in private larking about for the camera. What was most interesting to observe was the comfortable relations between the future Edward VIII, his sister-in-law and nieces, which alas did not survive the abdication of 1936.
Yesterday's article.
Fury after The Sun publishes footage of Queen being taught Nazi salute | Daily Mail Online
Quote:
Respected military historian James Holland told The Sun: 'They are all having a laugh, there are lots of smiles, so it's all a big joke.

'I don't think there was a child in Britain in the 1930s or 40s who has not performed a mock Nazi salute as a bit of a lark.

'It just shows the Royal Family are as human as the next man.'
A stupid front page from the Mirror.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKOZe82WwAEBSvE.jpg:large

As I said in a previous post, the Queen has dedicated her life to the UK and the Commonwealth, and she was with her parents, sister and Winston Churchill a symbol of peace during World War II. She was a child when this film was shot, and she is almost 90. The Sun front page was disgusting and it shows how far the UK media is willing to go.

And as a palace source said yesterday: "Most people will see these pictures in their proper context and time. This is a family playing and momentarily referencing a gesture many would have seen from contemporary news reels.

"No one at that time had any sense how it would evolve. To imply anything else is misleading and dishonest."

The source added: "The Queen and her family's service and dedication to the welfare of this nation during the war, and the 63 years the Queen has spent building relations between nations and peoples speaks for itself."
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  #83  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
As soon as I saw that photo I knew exactly what they were doing. They being the Queen Mother with hand raised & Prss Elizabeth. It is nothing whatever to do with saluting. Look at the legs. Arms swinging high and taking large steps as you do when stepping out a sort of exercise. NOTHING to do with saluting.
Honestly I hope the Sun get more than black eyes or mud pies for this nonsense.
Also in 1933, weren't the Nazi only just forming then? I don't think the Heil salute came till much later.

Hitler became Chancellor in January 1933. The Reichstag fire took place in February and gave Hitler an excuse to arrest the Communist MPs and basically impose martial law. New elections were held in March and, shortly after, Hitler, with an increased plurality, managed to secure approval in the Reichstag of the Enabling Act, which basically allowed him to rule by decree and become a dictator. By July 1933, all non-Nazi parties had already been banned and Germany was already a one-party state.

Assuming the Balmoral footage was shot in the summer of 1933, Hitler was already in full control in Germany by then.

As for the Nazi salute, it long pre-dates Hitler's rise to power. It had been in use since the 1920's.
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  #84  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angela View Post
The Queen Mother's reputation is damaged forever now, no question. It's very unfair IMO as a lot of the British upper classes were sympathetic to the Nazis in the 1930's without having a clue about how evil they were.
With all due respect, no it isn't.

Firstly although I hate the headline that went with this article, which in my opinion is truly offensive, the actual article laid no blame with HMQ or her mother. They laid the blame with the THEN Prince of Wales (later Edward VIII).

In fact most of Europe were pro Germany in 1933 because the great fear was communism. no one knew what was going to happen in 1933, not even the future Edward VIII.

The Sun should be condemned for the headline and pathetic hindsight view. But the big question is where they got this information. It is Royal property and the BRf could pursue this in terms of breach of copyright.

In the Uk I think it's fair to say that the public are v unhappy with the Sun's report.

As an aside, the left wing/ republican paper The Observer (sister Sunday paper of the Guardian) have stated strongly today that the BRF should release all the info on their pro nazi info (what???)

however, I found this from 2011 where they wanted the DM let off their pro nazi sympathies in 1933. Hypocrites. It is important to know where each newspaper in the UK stands on the monarchy.

Don't damn the Daily Mail for its fascist flirtation 80 years ago | Media | The Guardian
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  #85  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
As an aside, the left wing/ republican paper The Observer (sister Sunday paper of the Guardian) have stated strongly today that the BRF should release all the info on their pro nazi info (what???)
Yes, I saw it.
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  #86  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:35 PM
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The key questions for me are as follows.

Where did the paper question get the photo?
Who had/has an access to the family photos of the British royals to sell them?


On a different note ... If the British in general and members of the British royal family in particular shared some aspects of the German ideology at the time, it should not be surprising.
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  #87  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:37 PM
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You know it a little ironic this happened right after the Visit to Germany.

But I have to say:

The Sun paper really is a disgusting piece of trash (I like use much stronger words but i won't) and Ruper should be ashamed. He has a agenda and thankfully this time it backfired on him! They are the lowest of the lowest type of tabloids

Luckily most people (even anti monarchist!) have common sense and are seeing it for the context of the time. The Queen was only 7.


The bigger question is How The Sun got a hold of it?
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  #88  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:58 PM
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The bigger question is why the Tories, supposedly the party that stands for tradition and monarchist legacy more than any other, support Murdoch against all evidence that he actually only circumstantially abides by the same values, and in essence has long been a republican in disguise and with an agenda.
The whole issue that came up in the last weeks about the possibility of a BBC-downsizing sponsored by the Tory government in order to facilitate the business of the Murdoch-empire, should precisely show to everyone how obvious, unexplicable and dangerous this liaison is.
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  #89  
Old 07-18-2015, 10:13 PM
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Hmm, I find those that postulate that the BRF had Nazi sympathies based on a few (17?) seconds of a home movie, to be specious at best. After all, Hitler and his policies were not deemed evil enough in any way whatsoever when deciding to attend the Berlin Olympics in 1936, three years after said home movie was made.

My only serious question remains, how did the Sun come to be in possession of said movie clip? Why they released it is becoming clearer hour by hour.
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  #90  
Old 07-18-2015, 10:22 PM
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Boycotting this and other rags,is a good thing to do but Murdoch doesn't care about losing money if he feels he can have power and influence. The New York post, one of the three daily big NYC papers has been losing money since he bought it and ruined it in the early 1980's. He just pours money into it for power and ego.
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  #91  
Old 07-18-2015, 10:24 PM
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Given the furor over the "Nazi" story, I think Rupert Murdoch is going to look at the long term danger to the bottom line and throw someone under the bus, namely the reporter who wrote the story and the editor who signed off on it.
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  #92  
Old 07-18-2015, 10:31 PM
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The Sun had published this video anyway, but is there really someone who believes that they would have gone with that font page if the Queen / Princess Elizabeth had not been in it.
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  #93  
Old 07-18-2015, 10:43 PM
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The Sun's story is insulting to The Queen, but even more so I feel like it's incredibly disrespectful to the memory of the victims of the Holocost and all of Hitler's purges. There isn't any inherent value to these images - they were taken out of context and published for their shock value alone. It trivializes and cheapens one of the great tragedies of modern times.
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  #94  
Old 07-18-2015, 11:13 PM
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i do hope the Sun gets sued following a full investigation of how this footage came to be in their hands. How can it have legitimately been theirs to publish and exploit for their own reasons?

Did the Queen or any member of the royal family offer the film to them? Of course not! Therefore it must have come into the Sun's hands by some illegitimate means.

The few seconds on the reel has either been copied from the archives by someone at Buckingham Palace IMO, or the reel itself was lent to an organisation like the BBC and then copied.

The bottom line is, this piece of film is the Queen's private property. It's not the Sun's in any way, shape or form. Therefore it's up to the Sun to provide an explanation of how they got it, if they can!

The Sun's editorial staff are complete hypocrites! 'The Queen, the Queen Mother, Margaret are in no way to blame, it was Edward we were aiming for' they squeal. Well, in that case why were the Queen and her mother and sister featured on the front page, with blaring headlines?

Wasn't it a Sun editor in the 1980's who boasted about never letting the facts get in the way of a good story?
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  #95  
Old 07-18-2015, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Mara View Post
I feel so horribly for the Queen. It seems to me this has been coming on all week-first Phillip's comments, which are no surprise at any given time (he's a harmless old man with a wicked sense of sarcastic humor) but the media brought attention to it this last week.
Then this.
A part of me feels that with the coming of this September, when the Queen will become the longest reigning monarch, some would like no better than to kill her with a heart attack before that can happen....ruin and humiliate her. It makes me very angry.
I hope those responsible pay a heavy price.

I really don't think anyone is trying to kill her by making her have a heart attack !!! Let's wait and see the who where and when of the Sun getting it


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  #96  
Old 07-18-2015, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Given the furor over the "Nazi" story, I think Rupert Murdoch is going to look at the long term danger to the bottom line and throw someone under the bus, namely the reporter who wrote the story and the editor who signed off on it.
Murdoch is such a shameless sleaze, I doubt he'll do anything about it unless he's legally required to do so. His media holdings are so vast that I doubt this story will make much of an impact (though, oh, how I'd love to be proven wrong!). Murdoch also cozies up to politicians of most major political parties, so he's very carefully built a powerful news empire that would be hard to dismantle. Given that that the phone hacking scandal and resulting investigations (which affected a heck of a lot of people, including politicians) really didn't end up damaging him/his empire too much, I don't think a story about the Queen is going to slow him down much. It's all so very unfortunate on so many levels.
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  #97  
Old 07-18-2015, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Wasn't it a Sun editor in the 1980's who boasted about never letting the facts get in the way of a good story?
Kelvin MacKenzie, he was editor of the Sun between 1981 and 1994.
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  #98  
Old 07-19-2015, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
i do hope the Sun gets sued following a full investigation of how this footage came to be in their hands. How can it have legitimately been theirs to publish and exploit for their own reasons?

Did the Queen or any member of the royal family offer the film to them? Of course not! Therefore it must have come into the Sun's hands by some illegitimate means.

The few seconds on the reel has either been copied from the archives by someone at Buckingham Palace IMO, or the reel itself was lent to an organisation like the BBC and then copied.

The bottom line is, this piece of film is the Queen's private property. It's not the Sun's in any way, shape or form. Therefore it's up to the Sun to provide an explanation of how they got it, if they can!

The Sun's editorial staff are complete hypocrites! 'The Queen, the Queen Mother, Margaret are in no way to blame, it was Edward we were aiming for' they squeal. Well, in that case why were the Queen and her mother and sister featured on the front page, with blaring headlines?

Wasn't it a Sun editor in the 1980's who boasted about never letting the facts get in the way of a good story?
Excellent points Curryong. Like everyone has pointed out I'd like to know who was able to get their hands on HM's personal property?
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  #99  
Old 07-19-2015, 12:28 AM
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Thanks for that, Royal Norway. I had a memory spasm! Anyway, those headlines are just typical of the Sun. If the Daily Fail is like a dippy old great aunt who forgets facts, the Sun resembles an aggressive and loud neighbour from hell.
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  #100  
Old 07-19-2015, 12:44 AM
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Well, the palace is launching an investigation, so they'll get to the bottom of things.
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