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  #41  
Old 03-11-2008, 11:08 AM
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I'm going to be a guest at the service, how exciting!!!
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  #42  
Old 03-11-2008, 12:28 PM
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Ysbel, thank you so much for starting this thread. I have never heard of this tradition, and it sounds very nice. What a long standing history!!! I would love to be there to see one of these.
And RoyalProtocol, you are a very lucky person. You'll have to share everything with us!!! (if you don't mind that is!)
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  #43  
Old 03-17-2008, 04:01 PM
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Havent attempted to go north for the visit security is insane for it ironically the only threats made have come from so called loyalists. Not that they are being considered serious but the PFNI arent taking chances. I would love to hear about it i first heard of the custom in relation to henry the v111 wives when Anne married him a recipient of the maundy noted to others 'the maundy was much increased this year the real queen (catherine of aragon) gave less' off the topic i know but i always liked the quote
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  #44  
Old 03-17-2008, 07:07 PM
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Yes, please RoyalProtocol, we'd love to see your pictures if you take your camera.

I love finding quaint customs like this. If you go on the royal website you'll learn little tidbits like the fact that it started in 1363 with 50 year-old Edward III who presented his Maundy to fifty poor men.

If you look at picture 7 of the Queen, you'll see her outfit matches the little purses with money.
The Queen was the first monarch to hold the service in churches across her kingdoms so that subjects in all parts of her kingdoms could enjoy the service. Previously the service had been held only in Westminster Abbey.

Each year a number of men and women are recommended by clergy and ministers of all denominations in recognition of work done for the church and the community.

The nosegays that you see in the pictures of the Queen and Prince Philip on pictures 13 and 14 are presented to the Sovereign upon entering the church and were once thought to ward off disease. An important point since the sovereign traditionally handed out the Maundy money to the poorest and sometimes most unkempt of their subjects.
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  #45  
Old 03-17-2008, 07:38 PM
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The nosegays are the same every year, and I think they've been made by the same person for many years now. According to Google, Rosemary Hughes has recently taken over from Valerie Bennett-Levy, who had made the nosegays since the 1950s.
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  #46  
Old 03-17-2008, 07:40 PM
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I thought they were given to the Queen by the congregations of the different churches she holds the service in, no?
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  #47  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:55 PM
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I'm not sure who does the actual presenting, but the posies are made by the same person each year. Apparently Rosemary Hughes was granted a Royal Warrant this year, and five years ago she was appointed Nosegay Maker to the Queen. Not sure if the Maundy nosegays are the only ones she makes for HM, mind you.

It's most of the way down this page (pdf file)

http://www.aifd.org/focalpointsfebruary08.pdf
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  #48  
Old 03-17-2008, 09:25 PM
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Fascinating Elspeth. Imagine being appointed Nosegay Maker to the Queen. My old company had a special Royal Warrant from Edward VII but since they were in tobacco the warrant wasn't renewed.

Another interesting tidbit; the Queen's first public engagement as Queen was handing out the Maundy Thursday money in Westminster Abbey on April 10, 1952.

I did a search on Gettyimages for previous Maundy Thursday pictures and learned that George V was the first monarch since James II to personally give out Maundy Thursday coins himself. I wonder how it was done in the years between James II and George V.

Here is a picture of George V and Queen Mary exiting the cathedral on Maundy Thursday in 1932.

Here's another picture of the King's Almoner in 1932 preparing the purses of silver coins for the next day's service.
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  #49  
Old 03-18-2008, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
I did a search on Gettyimages for previous Maundy Thursday pictures and learned that George V was the first monarch since James II to personally give out Maundy Thursday coins himself. I wonder how it was done in the years between James II and George V.
As "Fußwaschung", the same ceremony was in place at the k.u.k. (Imperial and Royal) Court of Vienna till the end of the monarchy in 1918. The emperor personally washed the feet of 12 old men, while other members of the I&R family fulfilled the same ceremony in other capitals of the Austrian-Hungarian empire.

Here's a picture of Franz Joseph I. in 1916: http://aeiou.iicm.tugraz.at/aeiou.hi....jpg/35631.jpg
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  #50  
Old 03-18-2008, 06:52 PM
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security is going very tight for the event. everyone who is a guest at the service inc myself (mind you ill probabaly be behind some pillar and not even see the top of the Queens hat!!) has to leave their cars at a former barracks on the outskirts of Armagh and be bused in to the event
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  #51  
Old 03-18-2008, 10:13 PM
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Thanks for sharing Jo. I think this custom came from Christ who once washed his discipiles' feet.

You're so lucky to be there Princess of Europe. If they let you take a camera in, please bring back a picture for us. We'd love to see a member's view of what it looks like.
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  #52  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:05 PM
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So how much money is in the little purse?
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  #53  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:38 PM
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It's a silver coin equal to one pence for each year of the monarch's life. So this year, it'll be 82 coins.

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Originally Posted by msleiman View Post
So how much money is in the little purse?
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  #54  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:50 PM
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PrincessofEurope and I both had a wonderful day at the Cathedral.

We arrived in Armagh amidst very, very tight security and parked at the former barracks and went through airport style security, we were then taken by bus to the cathedral, we had great seats 10 feet away from Her Majesty, several times we made eye contact and she looked and eventually smiled at us for about 3-4 mins while the DofEd read the 1st lesson.

Her Majesty wore a new red coat and hat and a new(?) brooch which was beautiful.

The hymns were "Praise to the Holiest in the height", "Be thou my vision" and "When I survey the wondorous cross". Everyone got a large A4 Order of Service which was lovely.

HM then distributed the maundy money while the chior sang, there was a TV screen so we could see her pass aroung the cathedral.

There was then two verses of the National Anthem and a blessing by the leaders of the 4 main NI churches and Her Majesty departed for luncheon.
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  #55  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:17 PM
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How lovely - so glad to hear that you had a great time. That brooch is one of the late Q Mother's and as far as I know it's the first time HM has worn it in public.
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  #56  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:26 PM
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In times gone by the little nosegays were also important in warding off the stench of the participants.
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  #57  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:15 PM
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Yeah...strange but true. These were the days before people showered every day and had a cabinet full of hygiene products.
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  #58  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:37 PM
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Thanks for sharing RoyalProtocol. What a lovely time you must have had. Its a shame though you had to go through such high security but necessary I'm afraid.

I hope it didn't mar the meaningful experience for you.

This appears to be quite a historic event. From the Belfast Telegraph:

Quote:
The leaders of the four main churches in Ireland - including Catholic Cardinal Sean Brady - came together at St Patrick's Church of Ireland Cathedral in Armagh, Ireland's ecclesiastical capital, to watch Her Majesty distribute Maundy Money at the traditional pre-Easter religious service.
It was the first time that the historical service, which dates back more than seven centuries, had taken place outside England or Wales.
It is understood that the Queen expressed a wish that it should take place in Northern Ireland and that it should be an inter-denominational event.
Full article here.

The service was part of a three day trip to Northern Ireland.

I thought how charming how the Queen wore red to match the children's choir robes and the Beefeaters.

I especially loved this people she took with the children's choir and they matched each other so perfectly.

The plant brooch she wore looks quite intricate and lovely.
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  #59  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:43 PM
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So how much money is in the little purse?
msleiman, you may be interested to see some of the coins from the past Maundy services.

This one is a 5 pound coin from 1996 to celebrate HM's 70th birthday.

Now this picture indicates the total value of the silver coins is tenpence which would not buy you much any more.

However these are real coins and can be spent like any other money.

More pictures from Maundy services can be found in the images link in my first post above.
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  #60  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:47 AM
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I wasn't bothered about the security as The Queen's safety is of the utmost importance at all times and one would have felt dreadful if anything had of happened to Her Majesty.
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