The Queen's Churchgoing Habits

[Mark O]

Hi, I know it's long a tradition for the Queen and other members of the Royal Family to attend Church at Sandringham over Christmas, but my question is 'does the Queen attend Church every Sunday (where practical)'?.........if many Weekends are spent at Windsor would the Queen visit St. George's Chapel for the Sunday morning service?

 

[BeatrixFan]

HM does indeed go to Church every Sunday. She spends every weekend at Windsor and so every Sunday, it's down to St George's Chapel for the service. The Dean is allowed to speak about what he likes but the Duke of Edinburgh has set a limit on the time his sermon can last as he apparantly can abide long clergy talks. A few years ago I believe a Roman Catholic priest led the service.

 

[Royal Fan]

What about the Chapel inside Windsor Castle

 

[Polly]

That's St George's Chapel, Royal Fan.

So far as I'm aware, HM attends service every Sunday, no matter where she is. In Australia, she's often worshipped at churches and chapels of different Christian denominations, good ecumenical Queen that she is.

She doesn't attend service through duty or habit, either: worship is an integral part of her life and her personal beliefs.

 

[Skydragon]

She normally attends Crathie Parish Church, also know as Crathie Kirk, when at Balmoral.

HM was Christened on 29th May 1926, in the private chapel at Buckingham Palace by the then Archbishop of York.

She was Confirmed on 28 March 1942 in the Private Chapel at Windsor Castle by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

That's St George's Chapel, Royal Fan.

So far as I'm aware, HM attends service every Sunday, no matter where she is. In Australia, she's often worshipped at churches and chapels of different Christian denominations, good ecumenical Queen that she is.

She doesn't attend service through duty or habit, either: worship is an integral part of her life and her personal beliefs.

What about the younger royals? Do they go for their personal beliefs, or just out of duty?

 

[Elspeth]

I don't think many of them have spoken about their beliefs, so it's hard to tell. From what he's said about religion and spirituality, I assume Prince Charles attends church because of personal beliefs as well as duty; as to the others, I'm not sure anyone really knows.

 

[Royal Fan]

What do you think the Queen would want in Reguards to Roman Catholics in the Sucession also Wonder what belives about being "In the Spirit" and Speaking in Tounges (This is not to offend anyone Just asking about things in Reguards to this Subject)

 

[Duchess]

any member of the royal family that wants to marry a roman catholic must renounce their right to succession, all this going back to henry viii at the time he broke away the R.C. Church and formed the CoE. as for speaking in tongues (for those that are unfamiliar with it, is a religious practice and is an unintelligible vocalization symbolizing communication with the holy spirit, and in some cases, a sign of rebirth) i'm not sure that this would be important to HM but she's not said anything on the practice so we don't know for sure. as for "in the spirit" i'm not sure what you mean. maybe you could tell us?

 

[BeatrixFan]

On the ban, these days if a person was high up enough for it to matter, I have a feeling the Catholic ban could be dropped.

 

[Kevin_of_Sussex]

In the Sprit ie Slain in the Spirit

I having an intimate knowledge of various Christian denomination, the Queen appears to be a moderate Church of England person, and show her religious devotion by going to public church.

As the royal family's relations to Roman Catholicism may have been discussed widely elsewhere, I cannot add to that.

As for pentecostal phenomena, "speaking in tongues", receiving "Toronto Blessings", we can safely say that the Queen have not made an opinion on such phenomena, nor has she displayed such. This and her choice of denomination (Church of England) out of duty to her Nation, leads me to believe that she is very likely not to be pentecostal.

 

[GillW]

On the ban, these days if a person was high up enough for it to matter, I have a feeling the Catholic ban could be dropped.

I can't see that something which is applied further down the line of succession would "be dropped" for those nearer to the throne! - More likely the reverse would apply, so that those whose claim is remote & unlikely could be allowed to marry those of the Catholic faith, but that the rules would still be applied to those who may just accede to become monarch.

It has been applied only recently to Lord Nicholas Windsor, who himself converted to Catholicism [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]in 2001 and by doing so automatically lost his rights of succession to the throne because of the notorious 1701 Act of Settlement that bars Catholics from becoming monarch. But even if he had not, his marriage to [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]a British born Croatian noble, Donna Paolo Doimi de Frankopan in November 2006, would have excluded him.

Similarly, his brother, the Earl of St Andrews, married a Catholic in January 1988 and he too forfeited his place in line.
[/FONT]

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well yes but can you imagine the outcry if William was denied the right to marry his love because she was Catholic? Discrimination is cried at the best of times, all it'd need would be a march outside Buck House and I'm sure the government would whip it through.

 

[wbenson]

I can't see that something which is applied further down the line of succession would "be dropped" for those nearer to the throne!

That's actually the only way I can see it being dropped. As of right now, nothing has been "applied" to anyone, so nobody has been "wronged" by it. Legally, there is no such thing as the line of succession. There's a monarch, and when the monarch dies, there's another. The line of succession is just a convenient tool to use to see what happens if, say, 82 people die at once. Until that happens, nothing has been done to them for their catholicism.

If, say, William would want to marry a Catholic girl, MP's would be tripping over each other running to the House of Commons so they could appear to care about ending the discrimination.

More likely the reverse would apply, so that those whose claim is remote & unlikely could be allowed to marry those of the Catholic faith, but that the rules would still be applied to those who may just accede to become monarch.

There's no way to do that. They're already allowed to marry catholics, they're just excluded from the office of monarch should the time come. The only time the Act could be used is if a Catholic is the heir, and the monarch dies. Then the throne would pass over them on the way to the next.

 

[Polly]

The continuing prohibition of Catholics ascending the throne has its basis in the 1689 Bill of Rights:

"An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown." (first line of the Act).

Predominantly, it imposed strict limits on the use of the Royal Prerogative by the sovereign, gave full legislative power to Parliament, and barred Roman Catholics from the Throne.

The Act of Settlement, 1701, was passed, basically, to ensure a stable executive for the legislative branch of government, ie. Parliament.

* It prohibited the accession of Catholics, the illegitimate and adopted children

* The sovereign must be in communion with the Church of England and swear to uphold the Protestant succession

* It established the descendants of Sophia of Hanover as the legal heirs to the throne, but only if Protestant

The only way that these laws can be overturned is through legislation passed in the national parliaments of the 17 countries (Statute of Westminster 1931) where the Queen is head of state. If Her Majesty, her heirs and successors, wish to remain Head of State of these countries, then they must all approve, legally, any and all change.

Incidentally, it's also why Camilla will be Queen Camilla, despite any other silly and meaningless title bestowed on her, when and if Charles becomes King, and why Britain hasn't abolished male-preference primogeniture: it all seems just too cumbersome and unwieldy. Many people throughout the world do not appreciate (how could they?) how complicated changing the laws in relation to the BRF and succession will be and I can't think of any other ruling house in this complex position.

If Britain were to act unilaterally, informed opinion in the UK is that it would split the Commonwealth and divide allegiance to the Crown as the law would not automatically apply in Her Majesty's other realms. I do not think it possible that any politician would relish being held responsible for the disintegration of the Commonwealth; indeed, it's been reported that Charles himself has expressed dismay that he may be remembered as the King who lost the dominions, if, as it's becoming clearer in Australia, it's his mother who is the only bulwark against republicanism.

Whereas as one would have hoped that times had changed from those frightened and bigoted days which saw Catholicism proscribed (after all Guy Fawkes has been dead for 400 years), I understand that legal moves were instigated in Canada, quite recently, to remove religious discrimination in the succession, but that it failed. Perhaps Canadians here can enlighten us?

 

[wbenson]

I understand that legal moves were instigated in Canada, quite recently, to remove religious discrimination in the succession, but that it failed. Perhaps Canadians here can enlighten us?

There was a court case on it, some guy sued saying that the provisions violated the Constitution, but the court ruled that the succession laws were considered a part of the Constitution too, so it couldn't overrule itself.

 

[Duchess]

i don't remember this case at all....when did it take place? and i can't for the life of me imagine why someone would even bother with it unless he has something to gain?

 

[wbenson]

O'Donohue v. Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think it was a very big case.

 

[Claire]

What about the younger royals? Do they go for their personal beliefs, or just out of duty?

The Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are very religious, as was the Queen Mother. Regardless of the Duke's odd request for time limits on sermons. This is the man who has sent memos around Windsor urging staff to accept Jesus as their saviour.

Among the Queen's children, Prince Edward would have to be the most religious. He received a lot of slack for his religious conviction at Cambridge and Uni. He never misses Sunday service, regardless where he is and until recently didn;t do engagements on Sundays either. One girlfriend also dumped him as she considered him too religious. It is something he has in common with Sophie who is also very religious. There religion is something that is kept private - like the rest of their lives.

The Princess Royal and the Duke of York are not very religious, never have been, I'm afriad. I believe Ann sees it as another duty and Andrew as a simple waste of time.
As far as Charles religion goes it possibly doesn't match orthodox Anglican doctrine, someone told me that that Charles is now the high priest of mudge podge. So yes spiritual yes, religious no.

The younger royals not too certain of. They are normally still returning from their night out or recovering from it on Sunday. As far as the grape vine goes, it doesn't bode well. As was told that they get forced to attend church with the Queen even on Christmas and Boxing days, getting warned that the press will notice their absence as ask. But if there is no press the younger royals rarely attend.

 

[Skydragon]

This is the man who has sent memos around Windsor urging staff to accept Jesus as their saviour.

Do you have a link for this story?

Among the Queen's children, Prince Edward would have to be the most religious. He received a lot of slack for his religious conviction at Cambridge and Uni. He never misses Sunday service, regardless where he is and until recently didn;t do engagements on Sundays either. One girlfriend also dumped him as she considered him too religious. It is something he has in common with Sophie who is also very religious. There religion is something that is kept private - like the rest of their lives.

Again, any links?

The Princess Royal and the Duke of York are not very religious, never have been, I'm afriad. I believe Ann sees it as another duty and Andrew as a simple waste of time.

Anne has not seen religion as a waste of time, afaik, that is why she travelled to Scotland to take her marriage vows in a church.

As far as Charles religion goes it possibly doesn't match orthodox Anglican doctrine, someone told me that that Charles is now the high priest of mudge podge. So yes spiritual yes, religious no.

Charles seems to be a very 'religious' man, as well as a spiritual man.

William and Harry attend services at the Guards chapel, with other members of the regiment, although I concede photographers are not about.

 

[Claire]

I think the antedote about Prince Philip appeared in one of Ingrid Seward's books, uncertain which. The Prince Edward article was in the News of the World in the 1980's - the name of the article's headline was something like "too posh to Party" or something like that. Sorry it is not available online.

It was actually Mark Philips who said that Anne sees religious observation as a waste of time. But he is not much of a character witness. Andrew apparently liked sleeping in upon ship, it was his crew mates that gathered that he was really not that concerned about religious matters. Mind you, of course you can not equate church attendence with religious convection.

 

[Camsterlaird]

This Roman Catholic ban - what happens if the Roman Catholic in question subsequently converts to Greek Orthodox, or Protestantism - is the person who married a Catholic reinstated in the Order of Succession? For instance Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia married a Catholic - and was thus debarred. Princess Katherine is now a member of the Serbian Orthodox Church - so why has Prince Alexander not been reinstated?

 

[wbenson]

Because there's legally no such thing as the line of succession, so there's no "debarring" or "reinstatement." There's no legal body out there that determines whether or not someone is capable to come to the throne, it's just done by ordinary citizens who make their best judgment as to what the law says. The only way we would know for certain would be if that happened to someone who then became the heir apparent, and then there would be legal decisions, etc.

 

[Camsterlaird]

and I know Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia is very unlikely to make it to the throne (his son was 95th in line on 1st January 2008), but it might be an important consideration if Autumn Kelly converts to Church of England - or even Church of Scotland - after she marries Peter Phillips.

Surely the legal basis is set out in the Act of Succession ....

 

[wbenson]

and I know Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia is very unlikely to make it to the throne (his son was 95th in line on 1st January 2008), but it might be an important consideration if Autumn Kelly converts to Church of England - or even Church of Scotland - after she marries Peter Phillips.

The only way the possibility of converting back and forth will be considered by legal experts (as opposed to the people who decide such things right now) is if it happens to someone very senior. As I said, there's no such thing, legally, as a "line of succession," so nobody official has a reason to care. That's also why there's no grounds for EU human rights cases, etc. Nobody can have something taken away that they never had to begin with.

The people that determine someone's legal suitability for the throne, except for in the cases of people very close, are not legal officials but just enthusiasts. The British government probably doesn't even keep a record of religion way "down the line" so to speak.

 

[Elspeth]

I think the feeling is that as long as the Act bars a person from the succession for marrying a Catholic, that person is barred from the succession for life regardless of what the Catholic partner subsequently does with his or her religion.

The Duke of Kent remains in the line of succession regardless of the conversion of his wife; it seems to be the religion at the time of marriage that's the issue.

Now, if a royal married a Catholic and then divorced, I'm not sure if s/he would still appear in the line of succession.

 

[sirmax]

HM does indeed go to Church every Sunday. She spends every weekend at Windsor and so every Sunday, it's down to St George's Chapel for the service. The Dean is allowed to speak about what he likes but the Duke of Edinburgh has set a limit on the time his sermon can last as he apparantly can abide long clergy talks. A few years ago I believe a Roman Catholic priest led the service.

Does she really attend church at St. George's Chapel? I heard that she attended church at All Saints Chapel near Royal Lodge.

Also, when Her Majesty attends church, does the rest of the Windsor Castle community allowed to attend church at the same place where she is?

 

[Harold]

Have I posted this before? If so, I apologize for reposting.

I recall a news item from the Queen's visit to the Western United States sometime around the 70s or early 80s. She was cruising on Britannia up the coast. On Sunday she attended an Episcopal (Anglican) service in San Diego. It was pointed out that the Queen does not take Communion outside of England. So the parish did something interesting: they inverted the service and had the Communion Liturgy before the Liturgy of the Word. Between the two portions there was a pause and the Queen came in and sat for the rest of the service.

 

[PrinceOfCanada]

That's interesting. I would have thought she would take communion at any church in communion with the CoE, as Canterbury is the worldwide head of all Anglican churches.

 

[Royal Fan]

So she wouldnt take Communion in my Baptist Church