The Queen's churchgoing habits

[wbenson]

Originally Posted by Camsterlaird

This Roman Catholic ban - what happens if the Roman Catholic in question subsequently converts to Greek Orthodox, or Protestantism - is the person who married a Catholic reinstated in the Order of Succession? For instance Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia married a Catholic - and was thus debarred. Princess Katherine is now a member of the Serbian Orthodox Church - so why has Prince Alexander not been reinstated?

Because there's legally no such thing as the line of succession, so there's no "debarring" or "reinstatement." There's no legal body out there that determines whether or not someone is capable to come to the throne, it's just done by ordinary citizens who make their best judgment as to what the law says. The only way we would know for certain would be if that happened to someone who then became the heir apparent, and then there would be legal decisions, etc.

[Camsterlaird]

and I know Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia is very unlikely to make it to the throne (his son was 95th in line on 1st January 2008), but it might be an important consideration if Autumn Kelly converts to Church of England - or even Church of Scotland - after she marries Peter Phillips.

Surely the legal basis is set out in the Act of Succession ....

[wbenson]

Originally Posted by Camsterlaird

and I know Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia is very unlikely to make it to the throne (his son was 95th in line on 1st January 2008), but it might be an important consideration if Autumn Kelly converts to Church of England - or even Church of Scotland - after she marries Peter Phillips.

The only way the possibility of converting back and forth will be considered by legal experts (as opposed to the people who decide such things right now) is if it happens to someone very senior. As I said, there's no such thing, legally, as a "line of succession," so nobody official has a reason to care. That's also why there's no grounds for EU human rights cases, etc. Nobody can have something taken away that they never had to begin with.

The people that determine someone's legal suitability for the throne, except for in the cases of people very close, are not legal officials but just enthusiasts. The British government probably doesn't even keep a record of religion way "down the line" so to speak.

[Elspeth]

I think the feeling is that as long as the Act bars a person from the succession for marrying a Catholic, that person is barred from the succession for life regardless of what the Catholic partner subsequently does with his or her religion.

The Duke of Kent remains in the line of succession regardless of the conversion of his wife; it seems to be the religion at the time of marriage that's the issue.

Now, if a royal married a Catholic and then divorced, I'm not sure if s/he would still appear in the line of succession.

[Harold]

Have I posted this before? If so, I apologize for reposting.

I recall a news item from the Queen's visit to the Western United States sometime around the 70s or early 80s. She was cruising on Britannia up the coast. On Sunday she attended an Episcopal (Anglican) service in San Diego. It was pointed out that the Queen does not take Communion outside of England. So the parish did something interesting: they inverted the service and had the Communion Liturgy before the Liturgy of the Word. Between the two portions there was a pause and the Queen came in and sat for the rest of the service.

[PrinceOfCanada]

That's interesting. I would have thought she would take communion at any church in communion with the CoE, as Canterbury is the worldwide head of all Anglican churches.

[Royal Fan]

So she wouldnt take Communion in my Baptist Church

[PrinceOfCanada]

Originally Posted by Royal Fan

So she wouldnt take Communion in my Baptist Church

Of course not. She's the Supreme Governor of the CoE. It would be visually (as well as theologically, probably) inappropriate for her to take communion in a church which is not at least in communion with the CoE.

Originally Posted by wbenson

I remember reading somewhere that she rarely even takes communion in England.

Now that I find very peculiar, given how devout she is.

[wbenson]

I remember reading somewhere that she rarely even takes communion in England.

[GillW]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

An intimate setting with restricted public access. members of the staff and some of the villagers are allowed in. Tiny as opposed to the size of a normal town church.

Tiny & intimate yes - restricted no. My friend & I arrived about 30 minutes before the service began, had never been before, are not local and were not even expecting to go to the service (so not even in our "Sunday best" clothes) There were none of the Queen's staff apart from the one Lady In Waiting who arrived & left in the Queen's vehicle. The two ladies (to clarify - The Queen and her lady in Waiting) sat together in the side pews, which were otherwise empty. Even security waited outside, not inside the church.

When we found we would be welcome to join in, we simply walked up to the door, had our bags checked by the Security, and were allowed to pick our own seats, although the front 5 or 6 rows were being saved for known parishioners. No-one asked who we were or where we came from - all they needed to know was that we wanted to take part in the service. The Church was about half empty during the service, simply because no-one else came to take part.

At the end, the Queen went out to her car first but then everyone else began to leave immediately after she moved. Outside, the security chap waved us to the best spot to stand, and then a few seconds later the car crawled past us and because just us two were standing there we got a personal smile & wave from HM. So you see any visitor is apparently very welcome to go to Crathie to share the services.

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by GillW

Tiny & intimate yes - restricted no. My friend & I arrived about 30 minutes before the service began, had never been before, are not local and were not even expecting to go to the service (so not even in our "Sunday best" clothes) There were none of the Queen's staff apart from the one Lady In Waiting who arrived & left in the Queen's vehicle. The two ladies (to clarify - The Queen and her lady in Waiting) sat together in the side pews, which were otherwise empty. Even security waited outside, not inside the church.

When we found we would be welcome to join in, we simply walked up to the door, had our bags checked by the Security, and were allowed to pick our own seats, although the front 5 or 6 rows were being saved for known parishioners. No-one asked who we were or where we came from - all they needed to know was that we wanted to take part in the service. The Church was about half empty during the service, simply because no-one else came to take part.

At the end, the Queen went out to her car first but then everyone else began to leave immediately after she moved. Outside, the security chap waved us to the best spot to stand, and then a few seconds later the car crawled past us and because just us two were standing there we got a personal smile & wave from HM. So you see any visitor is apparently very welcome to go to Crathie to share the services.

wow GillW...what a great coincidence. or did you know that she'd be there? a great store to share though.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Duchess

wow GillW...what a great coincidence. or did you know that she'd be there? a great store to share though.

The Queen attends every Sunday during the time she spends at Balmoral, the only exceptions are if she is unwell. It was well publicised that HM had vacated BP for the summer, as it was opened to the public on the Tuesday.

[GillW]

Originally Posted by Duchess

wow GillW...what a great coincidence. or did you know that she'd be there? a great store to share though.

Although my friend had mentioned that HM had moved up to Scotland before the closure of Balmoral for visitors, we had no idea until we arrived in the car park that she would be at Church that day. Pure serendipity!!

[Skydragon]

I am amazed that this was the case as normally at the services at Crathie, if the RF are in attendance, names are checked very carefully and full bag searches are also the order of the day. Having attended Crathie in the past and will do so again, I am astonished to hear that security has been dispensed with on your visit when HM was expected to attend.

Although the service may have been read from a sheet of paper, the blessing for the royal family is always said.

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by Empress

So did she even go to church on a regular basis? Even when she was married?

why? would it make a difference? does god love a person less if they don't go to church?

[Mermaid1962]

You're absolutely right. Presbyterians (in this case, Church of Scotland)don't pray for the dead. I expect that William and Harry's grief was included with the usual pastoral prayer for "those who mourn." My husband, a Presbyterian minister, prayed that awful Sunday morning for "those who mourn, whether they live in hovels or in palaces."

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I'm not an expert on church doctrine - far from it - but adding her to that prayer would be asking God to bless a dead person, and I'm not sure that that's sanctioned by the church.

[Menarue]

It was almost a miracle...I never have such luck!

[Odette]

The closest I have ever been to HM was outside Buckingham Palace. I took a friend over and there was much commotion outside a side gate. I asked a bobby where should we stand and he pointed one side, then I asked which way should we look at and he said on the left.........so a few moments later a black car arrived. HM was sitting behind the driver, had a pistaccio green outfit on and a beautiful smile ..........she did not wave but the car came by so slowly, I had a good look of her I will never forget.......I do not know why but even today when I think about it I tear up............I love this lady and she is not even my Queen.

[GillW]

Originally Posted by Odette

The closest I have ever been to HM was outside Buckingham Palace. I took a friend over and there was much commotion outside a side gate. I asked a bobby where should we stand and he pointed one side, then I asked which way should we look at and he said on the left.........so a few moments later a black car arrived. HM was sitting behind the driver, had a pistaccio green outfit on and a beautiful smile ..........she did not wave but the car came by so slowly, I had a good look of her I will never forget.......I do not know why but even today when I think about it I tear up............I love this lady and she is not even my Queen.

Indeed - and singing "God Save Our Gracious Queen....." when you can SEE her close by is incredibly moving...I could barely get the words out. I'm glad you had chance to see her so closely - it is a very special memory, isn't it?

[Odette]

Oh!! it was like a scene from a ballet, as soon as her car got inside the gate they raised the Standard atop the Palace, then a wooden gate opened and her car was out of sight. I was struck at how beautiful an old lady can look. She is -unfortunately- part of a dying breed.