The Queen: Would She Consider Abdication or Retirement?


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Exactly, I feel Charles is more than happy by the Queen not abdicating.
he got enormoue leverage and influence with the government and ministers, which, I doubt any other Europen CPs have..He can champion all the things he want, and add up to his "CV"..Actually, he is having the cake and eating it, too.
Accession will spoil all this for him..He has to completely shut down his mouth, and become a dumb figure-head, who nods and signs down evrything put in front of him. I hope that occurs as late as possible..
And Mariel,why we should we end all this just for the sake of a "joyful ceremony"? I assure you he need not be "carried to Westminster" atleast till he is 90+..
And BTW his coronation will anyways be a joyful celebration...
 
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The queen isn't going to abdicate because it isn't the British way. The British monarchs are anointed during their coronation. It is a job for life. Look at the people who influenced her when she was little - her parents and grandparents. All people who put duty to country above personal pleasure unlike uncle David.

The coronation isn't a morbid occasion. The ceremony isn't right after the death of previous monarch but a year and a half later. The queen became queen in feb 1952 and crowned in June 1953. The last time we had a long serving queen, the long time pow stepped up and did a pretty good job as monarch when not many people expected he would.
 
The coronation, traditionally, is held at least 12 months after the death of the previous monarch but I have read that they don't want to have as long a break between the death and coronation next time (can't remember where).

The reason for the long break was that George VI died in February and they like to hold coronations in summer as it is better weather so Elizabeth was June 12 months later. The gap between George V and George VI was similarly January 36 to May 37 but George V was only 13 months - May 10 - to June 11.

Edward VII had an even longer period from Jan 01 to Aug 02 but he said he wouldn't be crowned until the Boer War had ended and then he had to have surgery on the day of his original planned coronation.

Victoria was 13 months - May 37 to June 38.
 
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Queen Elizabeth will draw her last breath as Queen And Monarch. There may be a Regent in place for quite some time, but alas, only a Regent, and I am guessing the conversation does not come up in her presents very frequently.
 
An entertaining article, though not very friendly. Basically comparing the royal family with a soap opera.
 
I agree Marengo, and I found the author's snide attempts at humor more cruel than funny. Prince Andrew does more than play golf and fornicate with models. Isn't it time to lay off this guy??

I do agree with her that the Queen is the best thing going for the BRF. I do NOT want her to abdicate any time soon.
 
Abdications are part of British history going back 1000 years - along with being deposed; overlooked; and murdered.

It is not a bad thing - it is the circumstances that create the need that cause the emotion.
 
If the HM was to abdicate, do you think this would help Charles in particular and the monarchy as a whole?
If HM was to abdicate, it would make sense when Charles has high approval ratings. Right now his approval is below the Duchess of Cambridge and Camilla is almost off the radar.


Can you post a link to this poll showing these statistics?

It is also a fact of life that the younger generation are always more popular than the older one unless the older one is ancient.

Going back to the early 80s Diana was tops followed by the Queen Mum and then surprisingly Andrew - that didn't change who were the important ones - The Queen and Charles.
 
If everyone values the Queen that much and think she knows what's best for the monarchy in the UK; plus people keep on and on about how old she is and needs a rest - given those circumstances and she made the decision to stand down, who is going to argue. She will be saying "I want Charles to be King"

Monarchy is not a popularity contest - you take what comes next.

For those who don't want Charles, then it will be a case of "it won't be for long" (hopefully incorrectly).

Duty is not supposed to be a millstone round anyone's neck - either the giver or receiver.

However, the reality is she is already slowing down; within 5 years she will be almost invisible, especially if Philip dies. If she has any care at all about the monarchy, then she will really step back (probably not abdicate) and give Charles the main stage.
 
That what I said in a earlier post or something similar. She will never abdicate but I could see some sort of Regency happening with Charles taking taking on more and Elizabeth in the back ground after she turns 90 . I have to say we been blessed with a pretty special queen for so long (61 Years and pushing 90) It is going to feel a little off after she dies. Kind of like when Victoria died, most people's had never knew another Queen/King when she died .
 
The important thing at that time will be not to confuse longevity with greatness.
and not to pay attention to social media.
 
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I too think Charles will be an excellent King, but I am torn. I admire QEII so much and I am not of an age to remember any other monarch for Britain. In my mind, I equate Elizabeth II with England itself. And as another poster stated it's going to be a jolt when she is gone...and not only for Britain and the Commonwealth.

It's the way I felt when John Paul II's long pontificate was winding down...I dread it. :sad:
 
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Shewill be saying "I want Charles to be King"
She will not want,cepe. According to her principles, if she wants to remain Queen for life, why she will want, or say she wants Charles to be the King..
Monarchy is not a popularity contest - you take what comes next.
Exactly, and a little more extension to that..
The next comes only after the present monarch passes away, or more correctly, when the present reign ends..
Duty is not supposed to be a millstone round anyone's neck - either the giver or receiver.
Did the Queen or Prince Philip ever say or do anything to indicate that they feel this as a "millstone" around their necks?
If you are talking health/physical stamina, that is totally subjective. One person may not be as active in 70s, as another is in 90s..
Right now they are doing things only what they are very comfortable with.
They are taking breaks from Jubilees/Commonwealth Services/Foreign Tours/Investitures, whenever health is not permitting them, right..
Its not like they are puffing and panting at engagements with an intensivist and a CPR machine right by the side..
If she has any care at all about the monarchy, then she will really step back (probably not abdicate) and give Charles the main stage.
Do you think there is even a need advise the Queen about that. Long back she crossed the stage where she has to worry about her personal popularity or her appearance on front pages. Her every action, thought and strategy will be for the betterment of her successors..So she will definitely do whatever is best..
 
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She will not want,cepe. According to her principles, if she wants to remain Queen for life, why she will want, or say she wants Charles to be the King..

Vrish - read my post - I said IF she abdicated then she would be saying she wanted Charles to be King

Exactly, and a little more extension to that..
The next comes only after the present monarch passes away, or more correctly, when the present reign ends..

This is your view - you have said its the only word in the royal dictionary you don't like - you are entitled to your opinion, and so am I



Did the Queen or Prince Philip ever say or do anything to indicate that they feel this as a "millstone" around their necks?

It may be a millstone for everyone else - she and Philip are not the only ones to consider. It can limit progress.

Putting forward an alternative view is healthy

Frankly she has painted herself into a corner. If she wanted out, she cant do it. Just another perspective.


If you are talking health/physical stamina, that is totally subjective. One person may not be as active in 70s, as another is in 90s..
Right now they are doing things only what they are very comfortable with.
They are taking breaks from Jubilees/Commonwealth Services/Foreign Tours/Investitures, whenever health is not permitting them, right..
Its not like they are puffing and panting at engagements with an intensivist and a CPR machine right by the side..

No comment

Do you think there is even a need advise the Queen about that. Long back she crossed the stage where she has to worry about her personal popularity or her appearance on front pages. Her every action, thought and strategy will be for the betterment of her successors..So she will definitely do whatever is best..

There is always a need to advise - whether the advice is taken is a personal choice

I believe she needs to be seen to actively hand the stage over - not just allow it to drift by necessity. In other words - positive action.

Thanks for your comments, Vkrish - interesting stuff.
 


I assumed that you would have a poll more up to date than one from 6 months ago.

Polls change and the questions are important as well as the source.

After the Jubilee last year Charles was preferred as King to William and six months later that changed and will change again.

In 30 years the people will want the baby to be king ahead of William if he is still waiting or want William to abdicate - as they did 30 years ago - wanted The Queen to abdicate for Charles and Diana.
 
I dont want to deviate away from the topic.. But I would just make a small point..
You simply cant blame Diana for that. She was nothing, really nothing.
..


I can and do.

Please do not tell someone what they can and can't do - it is bad manners.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and views and mine is simple:

The royal family were not a soap opera before Diana and they have been ever since she appeared on the scene.
 
Ok cepe, as you said, your opinions are yours, and my opinions are mine..
Lemme reply you..


It may be a millstone for everyone else - she and Philip are not the only ones to consider. It can limit progress.

Ok so you mean you are talking for other monarchs also..Then Queen Margrethe cancelled her State Visit to Chile, and it was downgraded to Official Visit by CP couple for health reasons..Was there any complaint? No.
King JC did not take many official engagements due to multiple surgeries sin recent months. Was there any complaint?(Not about scandals..solely about King's functioning). NO..Because in both cases the heirs fully stood for them and things went on as normally as they should have been. Do note that both are age-related problems, which may attract similar calls for "rest" and "time with grandchildren"..
But that didnt make QM2and KJC feel the "millstone" right. They still stay,Things just go on..


I believe she needs to be seen to actively hand the stage over - not just allow it to drift by necessity. In other words - positive action.

There is nothing like "actively handing over the stage"..in fact there is no stage as such, to hand over.The only thing that can be handed over is the "reins of a nation" and only and only the Dutch do that (and GD of Lux, if you count).
And if you want the Queen to announce the nation, "from now all important things will be taken care of PoW", it will look so unnecessary and irrelevant.
It just happens automatically, and people will know it, understand it and accept it.
 
Past the point when they were absolute monarchs, they are a soap opera. They add what they add and if they are not there the nation would go on, merrily. Diana is long gone, but she is remembered for good or bad, probably for a very long time. The queen will not "retire" because she has some idea that this ordained by "God". Her sister, Princess Margaret, actually, believed that. So, when they all get past this nonsense, decisions can be made.
 
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^^^
Again Diana has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
 
If you don't want this thread shut down - please get back to the subject of QEII and possible abdication.
 
I am able to identify when - a time - when the nature of the royal family changed from a serious institution to a soap opera and that change took place when Diana entered.

What has hit me is the fact that it was the time and not so much Diana as the catalyst of the perception of the BRF. With the 90s came the birth of personal computers and cell phones readily available to the masses and this is the main cause of the change in how we look at the Royal Family. They didn't change. The world did. When Queen Juliana of the Netherlands abdicated in favor of Beatrix in 1980, there wasn't a TRF to have a world wide forum to discuss whether or not Elizabeth II would think of abdicating as she grew older. With Beatrix's, every little detail was instantaneous with social media and internet live coverage and extensive discussions in various threads here even on every aspect imaginable from finery to facial expressions and historical meanings to hairdos. With the information readily available to us at a touch of a keystroke, we have more information (for better or worse) than ever at our fingertips.

One thing remains a constant in the UK and that is its monarchy. It is rich in its heritage and its traditions and it is the glue that gives a sense of pride and continuity. Small changes have been made such as buses instead of carriages at royal weddings and we don't see so many tiaras and white tie events as we used to but the main core of pomp, circumstance and tradition remain down to some of even the ages old traditions of the Opening of Parliament.

I don't think that Elizabeth II will ever even think of the possibility of an abdication. Its just not a feasible option in any form for her. She's Queen until she draws her last breath. She's also very much aware (perhaps even more so than any one of us) of how the world is changing and that in itself would inspire her to try and hold onto and maintain the heritage she has given her entire life to serve.
 
Okay, so back to the topic of the Queen and abdication.

I think the issue of why the Queen won't abdicate comes down to a few things:

1. There is no British tradition of abdication. This is not like in the Netherlands where the majority of monarchs have abdicated. Only 4 English/British monarchs have abdicated - 2 were forced to do so, 1 was pronounced as having done so by fleeing the country, and 1 did so willingly but was then essentially exiled by his family. Mary, Queen of Scots was also forced to abdicate. We would have to go back to the pre-Alfred the Great kings in order to see one who abdicate willingly without negative repercussions.

2. HM was 10 when her uncle abdicated. This is a really influential age, and that crisis had a profound impact on the rest of her life. The Queen was raised by three people who had very strong opinions on the issue of abdication: her grandmother, Queen Mary, who refused to so much as meet the woman that her son had abdicated for, her father, George VI, who was forced to bear this great burden of being a monarch because of his brother, and her mother, HMQM, who would go on to blame the abdication for her husband's death (however wrong she may have been to do so).

3. When HM was 21 she declared "that my whole life, whether it be long or short, shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong." Essentially, at the age of 21 she dedicated her life to the service of her realms and her subjects. More than 60 years later she has shown that she does not regret this dedication, and just last year she renewed it, saying "I dedicate myself anew to your service...." While she may not have entirely known what she was doing at the age of 21, she certainly did at the age of 86.

4. HM has shown that despite her age she is still very capable of continuing on in her role. She may have had to reduce the number of her engagements, and may not be able to travel as much, but she is still capable of performing the role of monarch. She is still able to do the red boxes, the meetings with the Prime Minister, the state engagements. The rest, as much as we might enjoy them more, are frills that do not have to be carried out by her.

5. It is often believed that by not abdicating the Queen is showing that she does not have confidence in the abilities of her son and heir. This is actually far from the truth. We know that Queen Victoria didn't have faith in her son and heir, the future Edward VII, because she refused to allow him to have anything to do with the ruling of the country. He did not see the red boxes, he did not partake in any of Victoria'a duties. She did not think him capable of ruling and thus did not train him for his future role. The same cannot be said of Charles. He has a part in the red boxes and the official duties. Sure, the Queen has not officially handed him the reigns, but she has shown confidence in his abilities to reign one day because she has taken the time to teach him.

I do think that if there were ever a real demand for the Queen to abdicate, either in favour of Charles (or someone else) or to abolish the monarchy entirely, she would do so. HM governs by the grace of God and the will of the people. If at any point in her reign she has considered abdicating, however briefly, I think it would not be because of a desire to retire or lay down her duty, but rather out of a desire to preserve the future of the monarchy.
 
Posts discussing the long-term impact of the Diana years have been moved to the Diana's Legacy thread.

Warren
British Forums moderator
 
Thank you, Warren!
 
We have had a good, lively debate over the past few days - threw some pebbles in the pond and the resultant ripples were good! I think what came out of it is that HMQ wont abdicate and that Charles needs to be seen to be her choice, and that she will reduce her engagements.

I think that Richard Palmer of the Express has been paying attention. Here is his latest piece on the Queen's decision not to go to CHOGM

The historic palace announcement that shows the Queen is struggling | Richard Palmer | Columnists | Comment | Daily Express
 
This is not totally shocking, right..Eventually such things will keep increasing..
Actually it will soften the path for Prince Charles to automatically become the head of Commonwealth when the QUeen passes away..
 
Whether the Queen abdicates or not (she wont) , isn't really the issue. Charles is almost 65, he is looked upon by many younger people as being part of the old guard. You either like him or you don't. I don't think anyone can really know the state of HM's health but the longer she reigns, the more damage it does to Charles when he eventually does become King.

They said the same thing about King Edward VII, and he proved that those people were wrong, doing an excellent job as Monarch.

Royals are more liked at old age, the Prince of Wales will be a wonderful and popular old King.

What's the problem having a 80 years old King at his ascension? Before that, we'll have a 100 years old Queen.
 
Nothing and like Charles he may reign for 10 years and leave little legacy.
 
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