The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1121  
Old 09-18-2017, 08:34 PM
padams2359's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 595
A regency, possibly. Abdication, NEVER.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1122  
Old 09-18-2017, 10:33 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,412
Y'know, the more I think about this rumor (and yes it is just a rumor that has been denied) that the Queen will put a regency into effect once she turns 95, the more I think that should this actually happen, by the time the Queen reaches 95 years old, most likely we wouldn't even see a change in things.

Bit by bit, Charles and Camilla are taking on more and more of the grunt work making things easier for the Queen. We do not see HM do the red boxes day in and day out. Charles does already get his own boxes. I believe they're blue. When we think about Charles actually stepping in as a regent, is there really all that more that he'd be doing that he's not doing already?

I believe we already are seeing a monarchy in transition. Its just happening so smoothly that its not that noticeable to us.
__________________

__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1123  
Old 09-18-2017, 11:11 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades, United States
Posts: 3,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Y'know, the more I think about this rumor (and yes it is just a rumor that has been denied) that the Queen will put a regency into effect once she turns 95, the more I think that should this actually happen, by the time the Queen reaches 95 years old, most likely we wouldn't even see a change in things.

Bit by bit, Charles and Camilla are taking on more and more of the grunt work making things easier for the Queen. We do not see HM do the red boxes day in and day out. Charles does already get his own boxes. I believe they're blue. When we think about Charles actually stepping in as a regent, is there really all that more that he'd be doing that he's not doing already?
Great post, Osipi. I concur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I believe we already are seeing a monarchy in transition. Its just happening so smoothly that its not that noticeable to us.
I think that is exactly what is taking place. This is just my opinion of course but I have a hunch (and I could be very wrong) that it is a family decision, too (that's why Andrew was part of the spin regarding a staff shake-up). We will never know until decades in the future, but I think there is a necessity for the shift due to the aging of the two principals (Queen and Philip). Any public assertion regarding her capacity must be seen as PR. Philip's 'retirement' from active duty may presage her doing the same. Not an abdication, or even a regency, just a retiring substantially from public duties.

BTW for Charles to take on all the state occasions, he would have to be regent, not so?
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #1124  
Old 10-14-2017, 10:52 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 2,602
As far as I understand it, the current regency rules are as follows:


⦁ If the heir to the Crown is under 18 when he/she ascends the throne , the next person in the line of succession who is over 21 and a British subject residing in the United Kingdom automatically becomes the regent unless there is specific legislation appointing someone else for that position (as was the case with Prince Philip for example when Charles was a minor).

⦁ If the monarch is incapacitated, the heir to the Crown, if he/she is over 18 and a British subject residing in the United Kingdom, assumes the office of regent. If the heir to the Crown does not qualify, the next person in the line of succession who is over 21 and a British subject residing in the United Kingdom becomes the regent .

⦁ The inability of the monarch to discharge the duties of his/her office must be attested based on evidence by at least three of the following five persons: the monarch's consort, the Lord Chancellor, the Speaker of the House of Commons; the Lord Chief Justice; or the Master of the Rolls; a declaration of incapacity based on "infirmity of body or mind" must include medical evidence.

⦁ The monarch's consort, and the first four persons in line to Crown who are British subjects residing in the United Kingdom and over 21 (or over 18 in the specific case of the heir to the throne) serve as Counsellors of State; if the monarch is temporarily ill or absent, but not otherwise incapacitated, he /she may delegate any of the official tasks of his/her office to one or more Counsellors of State.

⦁ A regency in the UK automatically extends also to New Zealand under the New Zealand Constitution Act 1986, but would not extend automatically for example to Australia or Canada. Some people argue that the inability of the monarch to discharge the royal powers and prerogatives would not be relevant in the Commonwealth realms because of the role in the realms of the Governor General , but that is debatable.
Reply With Quote
  #1125  
Old 10-14-2017, 11:06 AM
Somebody's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Peru
Posts: 399
Is there a specific role for the Counsellors of State during a regency, or is this mainly a provision for when there is no regency. And would an additional Cousellor of State be appointed in case of a Regency (as one of the Counsellors of State has become Regent)?

Based on these rules, the current Counsellors of State are: The Duke of Edinburgh, The Prince of Wales, The Duke of Cambridge, Prince Henry of Wales and The Duke of York.

When Charles ascends the throne the Counsellors of State would be (with their current titles): The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duke of Cambridge, Prince Henry of Wales, The Duke of York and Princess Beatrice of York.
Reply With Quote
  #1126  
Old 10-14-2017, 11:19 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 2,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Is there a specific role for the Counsellors of State during a regency, or is this mainly a provision for when there is no regency. And would an additional Cousellor of State be appointed in case of a Regency (as one of the Counsellors of State has become Regent)?

Based on these rules, the current Counsellors of State are: The Duke of Edinburgh, The Prince of Wales, The Duke of Cambridge, Prince Henry of Wales and The Duke of York.

When Charles ascends the throne the Counsellors of State would be (with their current titles): The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duke of Cambridge, Prince Henry of Wales, The Duke of York and Princess Beatrice of York.

My understanding is that the counsellors of state continue to have the same role under a regency, with the only substantial difference being that the delegation of powers to the counsellors, when necessary, is made by the regent rather than the sovereign.
Reply With Quote
  #1127  
Old 10-14-2017, 11:25 AM
Somebody's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Peru
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
My understanding is that the counsellors of state continue to have the same role under a regency, with the only substantial difference being that the delegation of powers to the counsellors, when necessary, is made by the regent rather than the sovereign.
Thanks, so they would just have a Counsellor less to divide the work if necessary but William Harry and Andrew should provide enough options (given that the monarch's spouse retired) if Charles would need to delegate something as Regent.
Reply With Quote
  #1128  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:07 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Y'know, the more I think about this rumor (and yes it is just a rumor that has been denied) that the Queen will put a regency into effect once she turns 95, the more I think that should this actually happen, by the time the Queen reaches 95 years old, most likely we wouldn't even see a change in things.

Bit by bit, Charles and Camilla are taking on more and more of the grunt work making things easier for the Queen. We do not see HM do the red boxes day in and day out. Charles does already get his own boxes. I believe they're blue. When we think about Charles actually stepping in as a regent, is there really all that more that he'd be doing that he's not doing already?

I believe we already are seeing a monarchy in transition. Its just happening so smoothly that its not that noticeable to us.
Charles can read as many red boxes as he wants, but he has as much authority to assent Orders, Decrees, Writs, Warrants, Letters of Patent, Bills, Acts, Treaties, etc. like you and me, namely: zero. The royal prerogatieve remains with the Queen as long as there is no Regent.

Audiences, receptions, investitures, visits, ceremonies, even the Queen's Speech, all can be done on behalf of the Queen but NOT the red boxes, that is my understanding. It is out of the question that Charles sanctions legislation in name of the Queen as long he is not formally the Regent.
Reply With Quote
  #1129  
Old 10-14-2017, 02:01 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Charles can read as many red boxes as he wants, but he has as much authority to assent Orders, Decrees, Writs, Warrants, Letters of Patent, Bills, Acts, Treaties, etc. like you and me, namely: zero. The royal prerogatieve remains with the Queen as long as there is no Regent.

Audiences, receptions, investitures, visits, ceremonies, even the Queen's Speech, all can be done on behalf of the Queen but NOT the red boxes, that is my understanding. It is out of the question that Charles sanctions legislation in name of the Queen as long he is not formally the Regent.
Small correction on your post. Charles does not read red boxes. I believe the boxes he gets are blue and totally different from the red boxes the Queen gets.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1130  
Old 10-14-2017, 02:11 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,151
He will be briefed in running dossiers (his boxes), as happens in most governments. The rubberstamping of the loads of documents remains with the Queen. That is the core royal prerogative, the Queen really needs to lay it down, or to pass away, for Charles to execute it.

Of course as The Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Etc Charles has his own responsibilities, for an example the Duchy of Cornwall, but that is no execution of a role as head of state.
Reply With Quote
  #1131  
Old 10-14-2017, 02:31 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Peru
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Small correction on your post. Charles does not read red boxes. I believe the boxes he gets are blue and totally different from the red boxes the Queen gets.
I understood the post ("C can read as many red boxes as he wants but") as stating that even if he would read the red boxes - as long he has not been appointed regent or become king, he has NO authority.
Reply With Quote
  #1132  
Old 10-14-2017, 02:38 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I understood the post ("C can read as many red boxes as he wants but") as stating that even if he would read the red boxes - as long he has not been appointed regent or become king, he has NO authority.
That is correct. Only the Queen has the ability to "rubber stamp" anything and to my knowledge, she never slacks in that duty and only does not get the red boxes on Christmas Day and Easter Sunday.

She could be 100 years old and infirm as far as the legs go and not able to get out and about but as long as she has her full mental capabilities, the red boxes are hers and hers alone. My point is that Charles does get his "blue boxes" and is kept up to date on what is going on but has no power whatsoever to "rubber stamp" anything or even comment on them legally. He needs to be informed though just in case as the heir to the throne.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1133  
Old 10-14-2017, 06:45 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 11,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Small correction on your post. Charles does not read red boxes. I believe the boxes he gets are blue and totally different from the red boxes the Queen gets.
The information in the boxes Charles (and William) get isn't 'totally different' but either the same or a selection of what the Queen gets each day.

Charles is often asked to comment - particularly if something relates to the Duchy of Cornwall as his approval is required for any such legislation to be past (the last time a Duke of Cornwall refused such consent was a few hundred years ago but that approval is still required).
Reply With Quote
  #1134  
Old 10-14-2017, 07:41 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,151
It is really rubberstamping. When we take one minute for reading one pagina of highly legislative language, then reading 60 pages alone costs a hour. And the Queen gets loads and loads of Bills, explanatory memoranda, notes, reports, governmental studies, letters, requests, invitations and of course extensive correspondance. There are people still believing the Queen reads everything in the red boxes. Spare the effort. Even Mrs May or Mr Johnson are just rubberstamping. They leave the scrutiny to the departmental mandarins and as the Queen will sign anything which passed the democratically elected Parliament, she does not even have to read, just sign, as she wil never block the will of the sovereign Parliament. So it is just a daily session of some 20 minutes of scratching with ink.
Reply With Quote
  #1135  
Old 10-14-2017, 09:02 PM
cepe's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,015
Queens duties that cannot be delegated:

Give the Royal Assent to legislation.
Appoint a prime minister.
Constitutional arbitration (hung parliaments etc)


In addition, the Queen retains the important function of appointing and dismissing governors-general in the 15 other realms of which she is Head of State.

EDIT: I found this interesting - "Only the Queen can exercise the functions, first identified by Bagehot, of being consulted, advising and warning, at weekly meetings with the prime minister. Some of these functions are mainly symbolic, except in emergency situations, but not all of them are. The Queen still retains a residual discretion which only she can employ."
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #1136  
Old 10-15-2017, 12:01 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 11,046
She may, in theory, still appoint the GG of Australia and the State Governors but she would never refuse unless she wants us to be a republic within weeks.

We would never countenance her interference in our country in that way and that is the only function she has left here anyway as we took away everything else in the 1980s.

I suspect that Canada is the same.
Reply With Quote
  #1137  
Old 10-15-2017, 01:16 AM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,550
In that her only real power is appointing the GG yes. Though she does so with the suggestion made by the prime minister at the time.

But not that we are on the verge of becoming a republic. Honestly if the queen was down to one country (beyond GB) my bet would be on Canada being last. There is really no major republican movement in Canada, besides Quebec, and Quebec wants to get rid of us too. Most Canadians tend to view the queen as simply on our money and the GG appearanes. The only thing that really gets much ire is the cost of some of their trips here. Otherwise Canadians tend to see her, and even Charles, quite benevolently for the most part. The mind set I grew up around, even in school, the PM is really our head of state. The queen is simply a figure head on our money.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
abdication, elizabeth ii, queen elizabeth ii, regency, retirement


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would They Have Married? auntie Royal Life and Lifestyle 501 07-25-2014 12:23 PM




Popular Tags
best outfit birthday carl gustaf chris o'neill countess of snowdon crown princess mary crown princess victoria current events denmark earl of snowdon fascism fashion poll general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta margarita infanta sofia iñaki urdangarín juan urdangarín king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein monarchy news nobel 2017 picture of the week prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince harry prince nicholas prince oscar prince philip princess beatrice princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess sofia princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queenmother queen rania queen rania in australia queen silvia state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family united kingdom victoria



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:17 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises