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  #1001  
Old 04-18-2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
The emotional bond, the link between the British people and members of their royal family begins in the childhood of the Royal person concerned. See my previous post about Charles and Anne.

You don't suddenly grow an emotional connection as a subject to someone you barely saw in their early years when they're a fully fledged adult. (I'm not referring to married-ins here but to born royals.) When William and Harry were little there were lots of photos and a video and we saw plenty of them as they grew up.
What are you saying then ? That George and Charlotte should be seen more often out in public ? I think they are still too young for that.

One of the advantages of middle-aged kings is precisely that their young heirs are naturally forced to take up a public role at an age when they can easily connect with the public. We saw it with Felipe when he was Prince of Asturias and we are starting to see it with some of the current teenage heirs like Elisabeth of Belgium and, maybe soon, the Princess of Orange. Prince George will probably fall in the same category by default when his father is king.
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  #1002  
Old 04-18-2016, 10:54 AM
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Among the current crop of heirs and Princes I admire the way Victoria and Daniel of Sweden have introduced Estelle to the Swedish public she will one day reign over in a very natural way. I also like how Albert and Charlene of Monaco have brought out their babies at important religious and national occasions and allowed adoring Monagesques to have a good look at them. They've posed as a family for photo shoots with a professional photographer as well.
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  #1003  
Old 04-18-2016, 11:24 AM
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There were just Cambridge family photos last month (by a professional photographer too). There will be 1st birthday photos in May, the photos with the Queen, balcony appearances, polo field appearances ahead. George and Charlotte aren't being locked in the tower until they are 20. As they get older, there will be more and more appearances. They will go to Church at Christmas, on engagements and tours.


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  #1004  
Old 04-18-2016, 11:35 AM
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Yes, I saw the one family photograph last month and if past history is anything to go by Charlotte's birthday will be marked by one, maybe two photographs. Where are the videos, like Estelle, and the Monaco twins mixing with their future subjects?
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  #1005  
Old 04-18-2016, 11:35 AM
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And it is possible that one of the Queen's birthday photos from the Easter Monday photo session will be released to the public.
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  #1006  
Old 04-18-2016, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
When I was a small child, the monarchy and what it stood for in Britain was an integral part of people's lives. My grandchildren don't believe it when I tell them this, but people would not only stand up when the National anthem was played in the cinema at the end of a session, with the picture onscreen of the Queen on horseback at the Trooping of the Colour but would actually stand up in their homes at the end of the Queen's Speech at Christmas on TV as a spontaneous mark of respect.
But these things were taught by parents and family. If they do not teach and explain to the children, then the children do not learn. So is this lack of respect the fault of the children or the parents?
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  #1007  
Old 04-18-2016, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, I saw the one family photograph last month and if past history is anything to go by Charlotte's birthday will be marked by one, maybe two photographs. Where are the videos, like Estelle, and the Monaco twins mixing with their future subjects?

I do think we actually get a lot of exposure to the Cambridge children - no videos really, but regular releases of photos. George was at the trooping last year, so it's safe to say he'll probably be there this year and Charlotte next year.

We don't see them as much as Estelle, but Victoria gets criticized for how much Estelle is exposed. And being a Prince/ss of Sweden or Monaco is different from being one of Britain - there is a lot more attention to the British Royal than their Continental counterparts.

Personally, I think it would be great if the Cambridges did more engagements like the play date they did in Australia, which is an inherently child-friendly engagement - and a good way to expose George and Charlotte to their future roles, with consideration to their ages. But the fact remains that the Cambridges, for better or for worse, are part time royals. They don't do many engagements as it is, so I can see why they wouldn't do ones that bring the kids along.

As for the Queen and abdications... Ok, yes, Charles will be an old King. And he will likely have a short reign. But that doesn't mean his mother should abdicate. There is no age limit on being King. And William will also be an older King, but if he's middle aged when he becomes King (and how the hell is he being accused of being middle aged now? He's in his early 30s) then that just follows the trend of middle aged monarchs happening in the continent.

People like to toss out the idea that the Queen not abdicating means she doesn't think Charles is up for the job, when they don't get that there is no precedence for the Queen to abdicate (Edward VIII's abdication is not precedence, those were very different circumstances). And if she were to abdicate it would create a precedence, which could very easily turn the monarchy into a popularity contest. Seriously, how long do you think Charles would reign before the calls for his abdication would begin? I don't think he'd get to his coronation - even now, it's a popular idea that he can give up his place in the succession to make way for his younger, more popular son. If an abdication actually happened though? It would be ridiculous.

If the Queen were to abdicate I would fully support her decision as she's served her realms dutifully for far longer than she could have expected when she made her coronation vows. But I honestly think that her abdicating and creating such a precedence, given who her heirs are and the history of the public perception of them, that doing so would be disastrous for the British monarchy.
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  #1008  
Old 04-18-2016, 11:54 AM
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It's a much less deferential age now, and discussions on the Internet and on Twitter make it even less. However, there was still deference and respect for the BRF in the 1960's and even 1970's.

I believe the ripping away of a great deal of the veil, of the mystique of royalty, came with the War of the Wales's in the 1980's. I adored Diana and felt for her, but the rupture of the Wales' marriage did great harm to the image of the BRF IMO. I was partially living back in Britain then and at the time of Diana's death, and personally experienced people who had once been fervent royalists turning away from the Royal Family for the first time in their lives.
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  #1009  
Old 04-18-2016, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Are Charles's numbers steadily climbing though? And what happens when the Queen dies, as she inevitably will in the next decade?

I don't know why you consistently question my commitment as a monarchist, Rudolph. Look, I've had a very long life.

When I was a small child, the monarchy and what it stood for in Britain was an integral part of people's lives. My grandchildren don't believe it when I tell them this, but people would not only stand up when the National anthem was played in the cinema at the end of a session, with the picture onscreen of the Queen on horseback at the Trooping of the Colour but would actually stand up in their homes at the end of the Queen's Speech at Christmas on TV as a spontaneous mark of respect.

The Queen and Duke came to my home town when I was a child (in Britain) and people came out in their thousands and cheered and waved flags. I was there and I remember the excitement still. I was brought up on tales of young Charles and Anne and it felt as if they were almost part of the family. People talked in general conversation about the Coronation and golden coaches and the Queen in her crown etc, the magic of royalty. People had tears in their eyes when they talked about the late King.

Are children in Britain today going to regard George and Charlotte as almost part of their family? No, probably not. Are they going to be wistful about Charles looking good in ermine and robes? Perhaps momentarily.

Or has it all just turned, since the rent in Royal mystique following the War of the Wales's, into just some nice soap opera that doesn't really affect people's lives, (the attitude of most Britons now) or a popularity contest? You bet I have worries about the future of the British monarchy. It's changed so much in my lifetime it's unbelievable!
This was a very different time with a very uncritical press and just a few tv channels, no internet and no mobiles, but as my grandparents and several of the so-called experts have said: There were many Republicans in the UK in the 50s and 60s and the monarchy is safer today than it was then. Helen Mirren has also told about a strong republican environment in the UK at that time.

I saw in 2012 a poll from 1960's which I think showed 67% support for the monarchy and one from 1970s which I think showed 71% support. Most polls in recent years show around 70% support for the monarchy, while some are over 80%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
It's a much less deferential age now, and discussions on the Internet and on Twitter make it even less. However, there was still deference and respect for the BRF in the 1960's and even 1970's.

I believe the ripping away of a great deal of the veil, of the mystique of royalty, came with the War of the Wales's in the 1980's. I adored Diana and felt for her, but the rupture of the Wales' marriage did great harm to the image of the BRF IMO. I was partially living back in Britain then and at the time of Diana's death, and personally experienced people who had once been fervent royalists turning away from the Royal Family for the first time in their lives.
Diana was pretty controversial before her death. She had turned a revered institution in to her own soap opera, she attacked her husband on television, she embarrassed the Queen and was putting the future of her sons at risk etc. I'm not saying that Charles was innocent, but he didn't attack Diana on TV or in front of the kids. We also had the other scandals and the media was much more critical than they had been before.

And then Diana died, and as cepe wrote in this post:
The Royal Family and the Media
Quote:
The immediate response of the British people was to turn on the press. So what did the press do? Turn it round and blame HMQ. With hindsight we know what HMQ did in looking after her grandchildren was the right thing.
Most people today (even journalists) regrets the way they attacked/bullied the Queen in the days following Diana's death. And as Rudolph said: Even during the dark days after Diana's death and Charles marriage to Camilla, the monarchy barely got below 70 percent.

We've had record high support for the monarchy in several polls since 2002, some of over 80%.

And as you wrote yourself in this post:
The Monarchy under Charles
Quote:
I know the monarchy in the UK is rock solid and riding high in opinion polls at the moment (and in the last few years.)
So try to be positive and enjoy the Queen's 90th birthday.
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  #1010  
Old 04-19-2016, 12:08 AM
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Video:
The Queen's Cousin: "No Danger of Abdication"-
Queen's cousin: 'No danger of abdication' - BBC News
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  #1011  
Old 04-19-2016, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I do think we actually get a lot of exposure to the Cambridge children - no videos really, but regular releases of photos. George was at the trooping last year, so it's safe to say he'll probably be there this year and Charlotte next year.
I think we are seeing way less of them than we did of William and Harry and the consequence for that is a lack of connection.

I would like to see a video of them interacting with other people rather than just a still shot with no other people around like we had for George starting school. There was nothing in those photos that allowed the public to really connect with George whereas a short video of him waving goodbye to his parents with them actually in the shot (taken in their gardens or at the main house at Sandringham and thus not a public show at all) would have been better, particularly in this day and age where video is the way news is presented.

Quote:
We don't see them as much as Estelle, but Victoria gets criticized for how much Estelle is exposed. And being a Prince/ss of Sweden or Monaco is different from being one of Britain - there is a lot more attention to the British Royal than their Continental counterparts.
Estelle though is 2nd in line while George is 3rd - but she is comfortable in public which George may very well never be as he hasn't been exposed to it as being normal. Time will tell which approach was best.

Quote:
Personally, I think it would be great if the Cambridges did more engagements like the play date they did in Australia, which is an inherently child-friendly engagement - and a good way to expose George and Charlotte to their future roles, with consideration to their ages. But the fact remains that the Cambridges, for better or for worse, are part time royals. They don't do many engagements as it is, so I can see why they wouldn't do ones that bring the kids along.
I don't think engagements with the children is needed. I do think that an occasional video would be fine - even if is was something like a candid video of George and Charlotte with the other great-grandchildren and HM.

Quote:
As for the Queen and abdications... Ok, yes, Charles will be an old King. And he will likely have a short reign.
I always love it when people assume that Charles' reign will be short but ... he has always taken very good care of his health. If he lives as long as his mother - whatever age she is when she leaves us - he will have a reign of 22 years - hardly 'short'.

Quote:
But that doesn't mean his mother should abdicate. There is no age limit on being King. And William will also be an older King, but if he's middle aged when he becomes King (and how the hell is he being accused of being middle aged now? He's in his early 30s) then that just follows the trend of middle aged monarchs happening in the continent.
William is in his mid-30s now surely at nearly 34. If the Queen lives another 10 years and then Charles goes for 22 more after that then William will be in his mid-60s - at retirement age when he finally reaches the throne.

The problem that is looming in the next century is a series of old male monarchs and they don't really inspire the same affection as younger monarchs.

I personally don't think The Queen should abdicate now - she has missed the boat on that - should have done that years ago while Charles was still young enough to be seen with his young sons but now he is too old for that so she has to stay on to keep the monarchy's popularity alive.

Charles won't abdicate either.

However, I can see William choosing to abdicate after a 10 year reign to hand over to George while George is still a young man.

I won't be alive to see it but I can see William setting a precedence of the monarch abdicating at 75 for instance.

Quote:
People like to toss out the idea that the Queen not abdicating means she doesn't think Charles is up for the job, when they don't get that there is no precedence for the Queen to abdicate (Edward VIII's abdication is not precedence, those were very different circumstances). And if she were to abdicate it would create a precedence, which could very easily turn the monarchy into a popularity contest. Seriously, how long do you think Charles would reign before the calls for his abdication would begin? I don't think he'd get to his coronation - even now, it's a popular idea that he can give up his place in the succession to make way for his younger, more popular son. If an abdication actually happened though? It would be ridiculous.
The Queen is a produce of her times of course but times are changing and the idea of a younger monarch with the children still being young and photogenic and thus images of a 'happy family' is gaining credibility given the European abdications and the rise in popularity of the institutions that followed.

Charles can ask the UK parliament and the other realms to pass the necessary legislation - as Edward VIII did - but he won't do that as it will raise the questions about republics etc in some of the other realms and he believes it is his right and that he shouldn't be pressured into giving it up.

Quote:
If the Queen were to abdicate I would fully support her decision as she's served her realms dutifully for far longer than she could have expected when she made her coronation vows. But I honestly think that her abdicating and creating such a precedence, given who her heirs are and the history of the public perception of them, that doing so would be disastrous for the British monarchy.
I totally agree with this comment - she has to keep going now.
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