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  #941  
Old 03-01-2015, 09:03 AM
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I don't think the Queen would pull a Victoria and go into seclusion mourning. Even Victoria didn't abdicate when she spent years out of sight. I think we will see after Philip passes is more group Royal engagements with the Queen with other royals. The Queen with W&K or Sophie & Edward, or C&C etc. Also the Queen holds of a lot of receptions at the palace where there are multiple royals present.

If she became physically or mentally incapable of duty, there is always a regency protocol that can be enacted.


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  #942  
Old 03-01-2015, 12:41 PM
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I hope she doesn't. I'm not a big Charles and Camilla fan, though I have more of an issue with his controversial statements than with their affair. I think the less time he spends on the throne the better for the monarchy as a whole.
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  #943  
Old 03-01-2015, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I don't think the Queen would pull a Victoria and go into seclusion mourning. Even Victoria didn't abdicate when she spent years out of sight. [...]
Queen Victoria lived for 40 years more after the death of Prince Albert. That is no comparison to a "sudden" widowhood of Queen Elizabeth. Queen Victoria was with Prince Albert for 21 years. Queen Elizabeth is now marrried with Prince Philip for 68 years, more than three times the marriage of Queen Victoria! So no good comparison.

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  #944  
Old 03-01-2015, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Queen Victoria lived for 40 years more after the death of Prince Albert. That is no comparison to a "sudden" widowhood of Queen Elizabeth. Queen Victoria was with Prince Albert for 21 years. Queen Elizabeth is now marrried with Prince Philip for 68 years, more than three times the marriage of Queen Victoria! So no good comparison.

On the contrary, imo it's quite a good comparison especially in a thread about whether QEII would consider retirement or abdication, to explore whether the death of her beloved spouse would have an influence on that decision..
At least it compares two monarchs from the same monarchy and culture and not with other monarchs who have an entirely different way of doing things

The length of the relationship is not a measure of the depth of it, but Elizabeth seems to me quite a different person than Victoria. Elizabeth has stated many times that her profession is a vocation to her, and i agree that i don't see her go into complete seclusion should P.Philip die before her like Victoria did (to me it feels like *her* life was over when P.Albert died).
Aside from that: Q.Victoria didn't know she would live for another 40 years when her husband died...
if we are discussing these things with hindsight knowledge i suggest we come back to this thread in 20odd years and then discuss if QEII considered abdication or retirement
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  #945  
Old 03-01-2015, 02:03 PM
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I would like to see the Queen abdicate now, so that Charles will be better accepted and so she can advise him, but this will never happen.
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  #946  
Old 03-01-2015, 02:23 PM
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It is nonsense to compare Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth: different eras, different personalities, different stages in life. Both Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke are very old, have been blessed with an unbelievably long marriage. No one knows what effect a death of the Duke will have on the Queen.

I think the Queen will never abdicate because, as I have stated earlier in this topic, when she had any plan to do so, she would already have done it. Her son is almost near his retirement age and still has to start. That is an indication she will remain on the throne but... what effect the loss of her love for almost 70 years (including pre-marital relationship) will have, that remains to be seen.
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  #947  
Old 03-01-2015, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I don't think the Queen would pull a Victoria and go into seclusion mourning. Even Victoria didn't abdicate when she spent years out of sight. I think we will see after Philip passes is more group Royal engagements with the Queen with other royals. The Queen with W&K or Sophie & Edward, or C&C etc. Also the Queen holds of a lot of receptions at the palace where there are multiple royals present.

If she became physically or mentally incapable of duty, there is always a regency protocol that can be enacted.
I very much like this idea. I liked seeing all the royal women out at events, way back, for example (I'm not sure why they were doing it - was it the Jubilee? Not sure). They don't do enough of those imo. It will be nice seeing Charles doing events with his mother. Something very charming in the idea of that tableau, but who knows how it will play out.
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  #948  
Old 03-02-2015, 07:38 AM
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On the question of abdication, I listen to the Queen's words.

From her 21st birthday speech onward, this is a woman telling us she is completely driven and defined by duty. She will work until she cannot. She will rule until she dies. God guides her work and her rule.

From her 21st birthday speech, "I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.

But I shall not have strength to carry out this resolution alone unless you join in it with me, as I now invite you to do: I know that your support will be unfailingly given. God help me to make good my vow, and God bless all of you who are willing to share in it." (see http://www.royal.gov.uk/ImagesandBro...April1947.aspx)

From her Coronation Day speech in which she describes not only her husband but all of the people/values which shape her and all the her work, "Therefore I am sure that this, my Coronation, is not the symbol of a power and a splendour that are gone but a declaration of our hopes for the future, and for the years I may, by God's Grace and Mercy, be given to reign and serve you as your Queen." (see http://www.royal.gov.uk/ImagesandBro...2June1953.aspx)

This is not a person who sees her role as ending in a step aside or dependent entirely on the support of her beloved Phillip. God, her people, her forebears, her legacy and her duty drive her. Read her words - they speak volumes!
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  #949  
Old 03-02-2015, 08:17 PM
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AdmirerUS, Thank you for presenting the words of Elizabeth's birthday and Coronation Day speeches.
I feel that this special lady knows she has a special role, a special duty. And she shall fulfill it!!!
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  #950  
Old 03-02-2015, 08:35 PM
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She will rule until the day she passes from this earth.
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  #951  
Old 03-02-2015, 10:26 PM
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The most important word for me is 'serve'.


She has promised to 'serve' but it seems as it some people are convinced that the only way she can 'serve' is to continue until her dying breath.


I think that there should be serious consideration given to the idea that the best way she can 'serve' is to actually step aside.


The longer she goes the more the press will turn on Charles - as seen with some of the recent media stories and the increasing antipathy to William and Kate - e.g. lazy, Willnot and Kannot nicknames etc will also grow. That is damaging to the monarchy.


Won't it be a wonderful legacy if she dies and within a generation the entire monarchy has gone because she didn't step aside and show her support for her son and his wife while they were alive.


She will continue to serve if she steps aside as much as by staying IMHO.


She won't step aside of course but is that being selfish and stubborn AND is it the best in the long run for the monarchy?


While she is on the throne William and Kate can continue to hide away from public duties so how will they suddenly handle having to do 600+ a year when they have only been used to doing around 100 as the second in line?


Should 'serve' mean for life as the monarch ... or could 'serve' mean standing down to allow her heir a chance while he is young enough to actually be seen as a king.


We surely don't want a series of 'old monarchs' as happened 200 years ago and that is a very real possibility - Charles could be close to 80 and if he then lived to 100 William would be approaching 70 himself.
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  #952  
Old 03-07-2015, 11:03 AM
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I'm not sure where this should go
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/wh...ii-dies-2015-3


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  #953  
Old 03-07-2015, 11:53 AM
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Very interesting - thank you for posting it.

The news anchor was criticized for wearing a red tie? In the US, when President Kennedy died, Walter Cronkite came on the air in his shirtsleeves. He wasn't even aware of it until it was called to his attention.

This question is not meant to be frivolous, but I noticed at the time of the Queen Mother's funeral (and again in the pic accompanying the article) that her crown was perched on a pillow placed on the coffin. How was it anchored? If it was not, but merely placed there, then it was a remarkable feat by the coffin-bearers that it stayed in place.
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  #954  
Old 03-07-2015, 11:56 AM
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Pfoe pfoe... what a speculation. Republics like France or Germany face a lot of elections which require an enormous organization, with tens of thousands of polling stations being manned by civil servants, every new President brings a new staff, new policy, etc. The costs of these regular immense operations are nothing compared with a royal event once in the many decades.

There is no way that the United Kingdom will be "grinding to a halt". The trains, the metro, the airports, the highways, the ports, all will continue to function. The electricity, the water, the gas and the internet will function as always. The financial heart, the City, will continue with it's usual 24/24 and 7/7 financial wizardry. People can do their shopping and take money out of the ATM's. Really, never read such a nonsense.

And oh yes... the so-called "billions costing" public holiday: it is not at all for sure that the funeral will be a public holiday. The Coronation, one year later, most likely will be. But remember: the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge was a public holiday as well and gosh... how the British economy suffered and bled from all this... It is really a sensationalist article based on nothing. A tremble in a tea cup.
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  #955  
Old 03-07-2015, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

And oh yes... the so-called "billions costing" public holiday: it is not at all for sure that the funeral will be a public holiday. The Coronation, one year later, most likely will be. But remember: the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge was a public holiday as well and gosh... how the British economy suffered and bled from all this... It is really a sensationalist article based on nothing. A tremble in a tea cup.
Easy solution for the coronation. Simply put the date on a Saturday or Sunday. Then you don't need a public holiday. And for the funeral when the Queen dies and it will be the first time a monarch has passed aways after more then 60 years.
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  #956  
Old 03-07-2015, 01:58 PM
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This question is not meant to be frivolous, but I noticed at the time of the Queen Mother's funeral (and again in the pic accompanying the article) that her crown was perched on a pillow placed on the coffin. How was it anchored? If it was not, but merely placed there, then it was a remarkable feat by the coffin-bearers that it stayed in place.
It's been known to happen. And apparently Edward VIII (later DoW) also saw it as a bad omen. (and he was right)

67 Not Out: The Bad Omen Of The Crown Falling Off The Coffin

At the procession to George V's Lying in State in Westminister Hall, London the Imperial State Crown fell from the top of the coffin, crashed to the ground and rolled into the gutter. Onlookers saw this as a very bad omen.
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  #957  
Old 03-07-2015, 02:22 PM
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I think the cushion on which the crown was resting has been prepared and the crown itself was secured to the cushion. In most royal funerals with "things" placed on a coffin, I saw these removed by courtiers before pallbearers raised and transported the coffin. The most easy spolution to prevent a toppling crown...
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  #958  
Old 03-07-2015, 02:23 PM
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There is NO CHANCE that HMQ will be buried at Balmoral or Sandringham...

She will lie, as her Father, Mother and Younger Sister do, in St George's Chapel at Windsor Castle.
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  #959  
Old 03-07-2015, 02:35 PM
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Easy solution for the coronation. Simply put the date on a Saturday or Sunday. Then you don't need a public holiday. And for the funeral when the Queen dies and it will be the first time a monarch has passed aways after more then 60 years.
I think they put it on weekdays on purpose. Giving people extra vacation days is bound to show them in a good grace.
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  #960  
Old 03-07-2015, 02:51 PM
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There is NO CHANCE that HMQ will be buried at Balmoral or Sandringham...

She will lie, as her Father, Mother and Younger Sister do, in St George's Chapel at Windsor Castle.
I believe there is only room left in St George's Chapel for two persons. Guess who these will be... ? So you are right indeed.



In the Netherlands great royal events used to be public holidays as well, but the Royal Wedding 2002 was on a Saturday, the Investitures of 1980 and 2013 were on Queen's Day, which was already a public holiday. So it looks deliberate planning. A funeral or a Coronation can be held on Saturdays, of course, when the "disruption" is too big. An extra "holiday" for a funeral is a bit strange. The Coronation however, it would only add to the festive atmosphere.
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