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  #861  
Old 12-18-2014, 04:27 PM
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I'm with you on that one, but I don't think there is a whiff of abdication anywhere in HM's mind.
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  #862  
Old 12-18-2014, 05:48 PM
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IF she was considering stepping down one thing is clear - she would do it live and not via a pre-recorded message that is seen and heard in different parts of the world at different times. It would be heard first in Tuvalu for instance. Does anyone expect that The Queen of the UK of GB and NI would announce her abdication to the Tuvalese people first - even though she is also their Queen???
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  #863  
Old 12-18-2014, 05:53 PM
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Plus William would not have been allowed to take the air ambulance pilot job.


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  #864  
Old 12-19-2014, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
IF she was considering stepping down one thing is clear - she would do it live and not via a pre-recorded message that is seen and heard in different parts of the world at different times.
It's also distributed several days in advance (I'm not sure how early, but a few years ago the US network C-SPAN accidentally put it online for several hours around the 20th). It would be impossible to keep it embargoed for that long if it contained actual news.
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  #865  
Old 12-19-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Plus William would not have been allowed to take the air ambulance pilot job.


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William hasn't even finished (perhaps hasn't even started) his air ambulance training yet. Anyway, he could get out of that commitment quite easily.


Long live the Queen...
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  #866  
Old 12-19-2014, 09:47 AM
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If we use the Succession to the Throne Act 2013 as a reference, the necessary changes were enacted quite fast in most Commonwealth realms, with the notable exception of Australia, where legislation had to be passed by each state parliament first before federal legislation could be enacted. As of today, I believe Western Australia is still holding up the process.

In any case, I believe that UK legislation in particular could be passed very quickly as soon as the Queen signed an Instrument of Abdication, as was the case with her uncle. It remains to be seen whether the British government would wait for all the other realms to ratify the abdication, or if the abdication act would come into force in the UK properly immediately after the royal assent. In the worst case scenario, we could have a situation where Elizabeth II would cease to be the queen of the UK, but would remain queen of Australia, Canada, etc., at least for some additional time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by timtonruben359 View Post
There seems to be a misconception in the British press that the Queen can simply say 'I quit' and give her two weeks notice. At present it would actually be technically illegal for the Queen to quit. There is no legal mechanism in the UK (and the 15 other Commonwealth Realms) that allows a succession to take place through any other means than death. The end of a reign and the start of a new one is covered in the 1707 Succession to the Crown Act and Demise of the Crown Acts 1727 and 1901.

If the Queen decided she wished to abdicate, legislation would have to be introduced in the same way it was done for Edward VIII. Unlike in 1936, London can no longer legislate for the Commonwealth Realms which means the Queen's abdication would have to be brought into law in 16 countries. In federations like Canada and Australia it's likely that not only would the federal legislatures have to bring forward a bill, but all the provincial and state legislatures would have to legislate the Queen's abdication as well. Then of course many of the Commonwealth Realms which have been debating about the future of the monarchy would likely use this to try and bring about changes.

Then there's the question of property. Windsor and Buckingham Palace belong to the Monarch so they would become Charles's once the legislation passed for the Queen to abdicate, but Balmoral and Sandringham are the Queen's personal property and she would either have to pass the deed to Charles, or she would remain owner of those properties until she dies (this was a problem when Edward VIII abdicated. George VI had to buy Sandringham and Balmoral back from his brother).

Then there's the question of titles, what would the Queen be called off the throne? Would she convert back to a HRH? Problem is from a religious point of view because she was anointed a Queen she's a Queen until she dies too. Would she been Queen Dowager - no because she wasn't married to a King. You know how title obsessed people around the British Royals are.

Would the ex-Queen be expected to perform public duties? I doubt it would look good to have an ex-monarch sitting around doing nothing while appearing to live of the taxpayers dime....I know that's not an accurate argument but people, especially republicans will use it.

I understand abdication seems to be the new 'in thing' for monarchies across Europe and I suspect going forward most monarchs will no longer die in office. I can see the benefit in some cases of how abdication might be a good thing but I'm honestly not in favour of it myself. One of the last major selling points of monarchy in this day and age is the continuity it provides and I find that abdication cheapens that (my personal opinion). Now if the Queen was hugely unpopular and the institution looked like it could disappear (like the situation in Spain) that it would make sense but the Queen is hugely popular, more popular than at any other point in her reign.

We'll be back here in September celebrating her milestone of becoming the longest reigning monarch in British history.
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  #867  
Old 12-19-2014, 12:13 PM
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Why the Queen won't abdicate (probably) - BBC Newsbeat

Quote:
The palace suggested that we take a look at some of the speeches the Queen has given.

During the Coronation in 1953 she pledged to govern the countries where she is head of state - a promise which she said she would "perform and keep. So help me God."

Former royal butler to Prince Charles Grant Harold said: "She's very much the old school - she's taken on this responsibility and I think she means what she's said in her speeches.

"I wouldn't have thought she would change her mind. She's got no reason to change. She's still got the support of the Duke of Edinburgh backing her all the way.

"I know she's cutting back in duties but I think she'll stay until the sad day when her life comes to an end. She sees it as her duty to carry on to the day she dies.
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  #868  
Old 12-19-2014, 08:40 PM
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We know from the Succession to the Crown Act decisions that until ALL relevant realms have passed the legislation it doesn't take effect in any realm so even if the legislation was passed in the UK until it was passed in the other realms it wouldn't take effect in the UK.


I have also heard, from some of my late father's legal colleagues, that there is still a chance that there will be a constitutional challenge to the legislation in Australia when it is passed here (not to the content of the legislation mind you). That is because each of the states have passed the legislation - meaning that they are regarded as separate monarchies to the federal government - and that needs to be fully clarified by the High Court. If there is no challenge then it means that each state as well as the federal government would have to vote on becoming a republic when we finally vote on that issue again rather than what was assumed in 1999 - that a vote federally covered the states as well.


Repeating - it isn't the content of the law that is at issue but the fact that the states and federal governments were all required to pass it.


That may even have to go to a referendum to finalise the status of The Queen at state level - before the Succession to the Crown Act is finalised down under - again at both state and federal level (if it is ruled that The Queen is separately Queen of each of the states then to remove that requires a referendum - to hand over that status solely to the federal government).
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  #869  
Old 12-24-2014, 01:16 PM
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The only thing that is interesting about this article is the last part. I quote it here.

Abdication rumours ahead of Queen’s 2014 Christmas Message
. | The Australian


Quote:
In his recent memoir, former foreign minister Bob Carr provided insight into why. He related a conversation between the Queen and Australia’s outgoing high commissioner to London, the former South Australian premier Mike Rann, that touched on the abdication of Queen Beatrix of The Netherlands. “It’s not something we do here,’’ Elizabeth said.
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  #870  
Old 12-24-2014, 01:31 PM
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And that's that. Its just not the British way.
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  #871  
Old 02-21-2015, 11:29 AM
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The Queen is definitely in for the long haul. Prince Charles is going to be notable for being the oldest Prince of Wales in English history. At 66 he's already nearly six years older than Edward VII was when he became king after his mother, Queen Victoria, died.
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  #872  
Old 02-21-2015, 12:00 PM
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Charles might well be older than Edward VII was at death when he does eventually take the throne.
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  #873  
Old 02-21-2015, 04:56 PM
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He only has to live another 3 years to be older than Edward VII was when he died.
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  #874  
Old 02-21-2015, 05:41 PM
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Personally, I think Queen Elizabeth II took the throne for life, unless she would be seriously ill, in which case she may consider abdication.
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  #875  
Old 02-21-2015, 05:48 PM
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She DID take the throne for life, but life is not easy for the very old. Times change, people change. I don't believe she will abdicate, but I am in the never say never camp. Can she really be 101, like her mother, and continue on with all of the duties of a monarch?
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  #876  
Old 02-21-2015, 05:51 PM
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I am actually beginning to think that she should abdicate.


I know that she won't - she regards the position as one she was given by God and that only God can take her from that position through death but...


I think that for the long-term survival of the monarchy she should abdicate so that she is there to support Charles and Camilla. The public would be more likely to accept Charles and Camilla if she is there at the coronation etc.


She won't do so, of course.
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  #877  
Old 02-21-2015, 07:00 PM
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Even if she did abdicate she is such a loved and respected person that I think most would still think of her as Queen


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I'm not saying she shouldn't abdicate can see both views.


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  #878  
Old 02-21-2015, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I am actually beginning to think that she should abdicate.

I know that she won't - she regards the position as one she was given by God and that only God can take her from that position through death but...

I think that for the long-term survival of the monarchy she should abdicate so that she is there to support Charles and Camilla. The public would be more likely to accept Charles and Camilla if she is there at the coronation etc.

She won't do so, of course.
I agree. I recall seeing an interview Charles gave when he was in the US. He spoke about the fact that the most momentous day for him will also be a day of greatest sorrow, too. Those two emotional conditions of one's heart are hard to put side-by-side. Why not make the two independent of the other. I think the continental royals have set a great precedent. It seems very right, very healthy. Ascend the throne and grieve one's parent in it's time. Separate.

She should do it. She would be doing her son and heir, and the monarchy, a great service imo. Maybe an age gets chosen, like 80, for every monarch to step down.
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  #879  
Old 02-21-2015, 08:01 PM
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I am in agreement with the last few posts - if there was a way for the Queen to conscionably abdicate I would be in favour of it. We all presume she will rule until death, we all hope she will rule for a long time yet to come, but I would see no harm in an abdication if it was something the Queen felt she could do.
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  #880  
Old 02-21-2015, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I am in agreement with the last few posts - if there was a way for the Queen to conscionably abdicate I would be in favour of it. We all presume she will rule until death, we all hope she will rule for a long time yet to come, but I would see no harm in an abdication if it was something the Queen felt she could do.
If Elizabeth II felt she could abdicate, would she consult the matter with her four children?
Or would she speak with Charles only? After all, Charles is her heir.
Would Elizabeth need to get the opinion of the Prime Minister?
Or is this a matter that she and only she, as Queen Elizabeth II, decides?
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