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  #701  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.

I believe it would be really bad for the monarchy if Charles trailes along with an really old and really ill mother, still Queen but not seen in public anymore, for some years, with the inevitable following, Queen dies, Charles, alreay old himself, dies shortly afterwards and freshman William will have to take over.
I think its more likely that the scenario present itself as you have stated, rather than abdicate, it is more likely that Charles will be created Prince Regent in his mother's stead.

To be honest, I think that if it happened that HM was advised to abdicate due to age/health reasons, it would be something that would actually hasten her death. Serving her country and people has been her life long ambition and to take that away from her really could create more problems than the aging Queen already has.

I would almost bet my last doughnut that, although we don't see it except for a glimmer here and there, Charles and HM/DoE are very much preparing and advising and counseling William on what his future role will be. This isn't a family that leaves things to be done until the last minute.
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  #702  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I think its more likely that the scenario present itself as you have stated, rather than abdicate, it is more likely that Charles will be created Prince Regent in his mother's stead.

To be honest, I think that if it happened that HM was advised to abdicate due to age/health reasons, it would be something that would actually hasten her death. Serving her country and people has been her life long ambition and to take that away from her really could create more problems than the aging Queen already has.

I would almost bet my last doughnut that, although we don't see it except for a glimmer here and there, Charles and HM/DoE are very much preparing and advising and counseling William on what his future role will be. This isn't a family that leaves things to be done until the last minute.

To be a frank, as an outsider, I am surprised by how actually unprepared both Charles and William are to take the throne. Their formal education for example is modest compared to current/former crown princes/princesses in the continent (Felipe, Victoria, Frederick, Willem-Alexander, etc.), who usually speak four different languages and have multiple university degrees in addition to military training and/or diplomatic experience. In fact, it was painful to see William recently in Canada trying to babble a couple of words in French and sounding like a stereotyptical "ugly Anglo-Saxon tourist".

But, again, Queen Elizabeth II didn't even attend university herself.
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  #703  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:11 AM
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The Queen will never abdicate, nor will the monarchs in Japan, Denmark and Norway.
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  #704  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:20 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, Victoria only have a Bachelor degrees which she got a year before her wedding. So how is she more educated than Charles and William?

I don't see the big deal about people having accent when they speak a foreign language. People always get on Mary and Silvia saying they don't speak they language because they have an accent
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  #705  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
To be a frank, as an outsider, I am surprised by how actually unprepared both Charles and William are to take the throne. Their formal education for example is modest compared to current/former crown princes/princesses in the continent (Felipe, Victoria, Frederick, Willem-Alexander, etc.), who usually speak four different languages and have multiple university degrees in addition to military training and/or diplomatic experience. In fact, it was painful to see William recently in Canada trying to babble a couple of words in French and sounding like a stereotyptical "ugly Anglo-Saxon tourist".

But, again, Queen Elizabeth II didn't even attend university herself.
This smacks of educational snobbery. Some of the most diplomatic, intelligent, articulate, entrepreneurial people never went to university. It is not a true measure of an individuals ability to do other than pass exams.

And not only did the Queen not go to university, she was educated at home.
In her day few women went to university and certainly not during WW2
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  #706  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
The Queen will never abdicate, nor will the monarchs in Japan, Denmark and Norway.
I agree with you that Queen Elizabeth II and Emperor Akihito will not abdicate. However, I am not so sure about Queen Margrethe II and King Harald.
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  #707  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:32 AM
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I agree with you that Queen Elizabeth II and Emperor Akihito will not abdicate. However, I am not so sure about Queen Margrethe and King Harald.
Queen Margarethe has said will remain on the throne until She fall off. She see for Life also
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  #708  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
To be a frank, as an outsider, I am surprised by how actually unprepared both Charles and William are to take the throne. Their formal education for example is modest compared to current/former crown princes/princesses in the continent (Felipe, Victoria, Frederick, Willem-Alexander, etc.), who usually speak four different languages and have multiple university degrees in addition to military training and/or diplomatic experience. In fact, it was painful to see William recently in Canada trying to babble a couple of words in French and sounding like a stereotyptical "ugly Anglo-Saxon tourist".

But, again, Queen Elizabeth II didn't even attend university herself.
I don't quite understand how the inability to speak multiple languages makes you unprepared to take the role of monarch. Surely it is about constitutional knowledge, skills of diplomacy and the ability to connect to people which are the essential elements. Yes, it is a real strength if you are multilingual, but if you are an English speaker, you are fortunate that it is not essential. There are many aspects to William's demeanour which suggest he does not give the impression of an "ugly Anglo -Saxon tourist". I am not fluent in French, but I try, and I do not think my efforts are interpreted in such an ungracious way.
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  #709  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:38 AM
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Queen Margarethe has said will remain on the throne until She fall off. She see for Life also
So did King Juan Carlos. However, he is retiring and giving the monarchy a clean slate.
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  #710  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:39 AM
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So did King Juan Carlos. However, he is retiring and giving the monarchy a clean slate.
That is different
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  #711  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:40 AM
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She had better start thinking about it seriously. Time for the 'new' generation to take over. One can hardly claim the Prince of Wales is a schoolboy after all...
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  #712  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
This smacks of educational snobbery. Some of the most diplomatic, intelligent, articulate, entrepreneurial people never went to university. It is not a true measure of an individuals ability to do other than pass exams.

And not only did the Queen not go to university, she was educated at home.
In her day few women went to university and certainly not during WW2
Queen Margrethe II and Queen Beatrix attended university and they are not that much younger than Queen Elizabeth II.

It is not educational snobbery, but a requirement for many jobs nowadays. Why shouldn't we expect Heads of State to be well-educated when we expect that from corporate CEO's and political leaders ?

As for William, I don't mind his accent, but I honestly think it was foolish of him to try to give a speech in French when he obviously can't do it. President Obama can't either, but he knows better and doesn't embarass himself.
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  #713  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:41 AM
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That is different
It remains to be seen. At the same time, another abdication will not come as a surprise to me.
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  #714  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:48 AM
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Queen Margrethe II and Queen Beatrix attended university and they are not that much younger than Queen Elizabeth II.

It is not educational snobbery, but a requirement for many jobs nowadays. Why shouldn't we expect Heads of State to be well-educated when we expect that from corporate CEO's and political leaders ?

As for William, I don't mind his accent, but I honestly think it was foolish of him to try to give a speech in French when he obviously can't do it. President Obama can't either, but he knows better and doesn't embarass himself.
MArgrethe is 14 years younger - mid/late 50's women were going to university; Beatrix is 12 years younger. Educationally that is a big difference.

HMQ was brought up as an Edwardian young lady by her mother and grandmother - but she had the best constitutional training possible, she speaks fluent french and is well read. Lack of university experience has not made any difference to her ability to be a good monarch

As for William - he was in Canada which uses both English and French. The Country will have appreciated his efforts. He didn't embarrass himself; he was praised for trying.
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  #715  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:49 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, Victoria only have a Bachelor degrees which she got a year before her wedding. So how is she more educated than Charles and William?

I don't see the big deal about people having accent when they speak a foreign language. People always get on Mary and Silvia saying they don't speak they language because they have an accent

I suppose technically she does hold only one bachelor's degree, but her overall educational and training experience is far more impressive than Willliam's. That is what the Wikipedia says:

"
Victoria studied for a year (1996/97) at the Université Catholique de l'Ouest at Angers in France, and in the fall term of 1997 participated in a special program following the work of the Riksdag. From 1998 to 2000, Victoria resided in the United States, where she studied various subjects at Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut.[3]
In May 1999, she was an intern at the Swedish Embassy in Washington, D.C. Victoria completed a study program at the Government Offices in 2001.[citation needed] In 2003, Victoria's education continued with visits to Swedish businesses, a study and intern program in agriculture and forestry, as well as completion of the basic soldier training at SWEDINT (the Swedish Armed Forces International Centre).[citation needed]
In 2006, Victoria enrolled in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' Diplomat Program, running from September 2006 to June 2007. The program is a training program for young future diplomats and gives an insight to the ministry's work, Swedish foreign and security policies and Sweden's relations with the rest of the world.[citation needed] In June 2009, she graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree from Uppsala University."



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  #716  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:51 AM
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Well, all indications to the contrary, QEII is actally a very old age or at least, at 88, near enough that it doesn't count and, she shows no sign of stumbling. She and her beloved Consort have made tentative starts at slowing down but let's face it, HM pace is still a darn sight faster and her days fuller and longer that many people half her age.

Now as to her health, I would venture she has had less "sick" days than almost anyone in the UK and the Commonwealth.

Watching the State Opening of Parliament I was impressed by her steadyness during the procession wearing the the Imperial State Crown, weighing in at over 2lb and an teetering height of over 12 inches. Lesser mortals would have stumbled. More, she is as sharp as a tack and her voice is strong and actually rather beautiful.

As to the death of Prince Philip, when that happens I imagine that HM may, and I repeat, may slow down more and leave Prince Charles to pick up the slack but, I truely believe that she will die as The Queen having pledged her duty for her whole life. HM is a woman of faith and integrity and from a generation that believed in dedicating their lives, no ifs, buts or maybes. Illness may overtake her and Charles may become Regent but the notion of HM making a speech to her people announcing her retirement is unimagineable. Really.
> I agree, HM appears very fit for an 88 year old, and certainly has not had many public engagements cancelled due to illness in her 62 years on the throne.

> What is clear is that a gradual and orderly transition of responsibilities and duties has been underway for the last few years, and may accelerate over the next two years.

> I do not believe there will be an abdication at all. In extreme circumstances there may be a Regency.
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  #717  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:53 AM
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I don't think you can major in Kingship at University. There is only one person in the world who knows how to be the British monarch- The Queen. How she prepares her heir and how he prepares his heir is done behind the scenes. Time magazine had a cover story on Charles last year. It had a story about Charles teaching William about how to do an investiture up in Birkhall before William did his first one. William used to have tea with the Queen every Sunday while at Eton. Every documentary about the royals when they are asked how they learn how do things, it always watching the older generation and learning on the job.
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  #718  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:54 AM
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It remains to be seen. At the same time, another abdication will not come as surprise to me.
Same thoughts here, Al_bina! This has only been the beginning. People are more and more convinced that an abdication, in any European country, can indeed happen. I will just be waiting for the next announcement while having tea...
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  #719  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
MArgrethe is 14 years younger - mid/late 50's women were going to university; Beatrix is 12 years younger. Educationally that is a big difference.

HMQ was brought up as an Edwardian young lady by her mother and grandmother - but she had the best constitutional training possible, she speaks fluent french and is well read. Lack of university experience has not made any difference to her ability to be a good monarch

As for William - he was in Canada which uses both English and French. The Country will have appreciated his efforts. He didn't embarrass himself; he was praised for trying.

I agree with you that lack of university training did not prevent Queen Elizabeth II from being a good monarch. In fact, I think she excels in her job and is very knowledgeable of diplomatic and government affairs.

I do think, however, that William's education is lacking for someone of his generation and in the current times. Now that he is no longer in active duty in the Armed Forces, it would be advisable for him to pursue a master's degree and get more international and diplomatic experience.
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  #720  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:58 AM
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I suppose technically she does hold only one bachelor's degree, but her overall educational and training experience is far more impressive than Willliam's. That is what the Wikipedia says:

"
Victoria studied for a year (1996/97) at the Université Catholique de l'Ouest at Angers in France, and in the fall term of 1997 participated in a special program following the work of the Riksdag. From 1998 to 2000, Victoria resided in the United States, where she studied various subjects at Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut.[3]
In May 1999, she was an intern at the Swedish Embassy in Washington, D.C. Victoria completed a study program at the Government Offices in 2001.[citation needed] In 2003, Victoria's education continued with visits to Swedish businesses, a study and intern program in agriculture and forestry, as well as completion of the basic soldier training at SWEDINT (the Swedish Armed Forces International Centre).[citation needed]
In 2006, Victoria enrolled in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' Diplomat Program, running from September 2006 to June 2007. The program is a training program for young future diplomats and gives an insight to the ministry's work, Swedish foreign and security policies and Sweden's relations with the rest of the world.[citation needed] In June 2009, she graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree from Uppsala University."



Her training experience is not as great as the Prince of Wales who holds an equivalent position as heir to the throne but the real training is not the meetings and events - its the confidence given to you by your parent who is monarch that you can do the job. So whether you have had 40 or 4 years training you have the confidence to get on with it should the unexpected happen

That's something formal education cannot give you.
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