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  #681  
Old 03-27-2014, 04:26 PM
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I think The Queen will try to go on as much as she can, until she can't go on anymore. You just never know what tomorrow will bring and I think she takes things one day at a time.

The palace is already prepared for when she's too ill to do things and Charles will have to step in on her behalf. I just don't think the media and public are prepared for any of it.
None of us are, in reality. Ive had family members that I've known to being dying but that didnt prepare me for the moment they died. As a friend said - you never get used to it.
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  #682  
Old 03-27-2014, 05:05 PM
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None of us are, in reality. Ive had family members that I've known to being dying but that didnt prepare me for the moment they died. As a friend said - you never get used to it.
That's very true, you never get used to it. I'm actually talking about when The Queen becomes sick but not dying. There will be times when she's not up to carrying out engagements as we are used to seeing her doing though.
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  #683  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:58 PM
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When I heard the news that Juan Carlos was going to abdicate. I thought well if he abdicates maybe The Queen will be a little bit tempted. I still don't think she will abdicate I am just saying it might just cross her mind that its ok to abdicate.

I personally think Monarchs should reign for life by the way.
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  #684  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
That's very true, you never get used to it. I'm actually talking about when The Queen becomes sick but not dying. There will be times when she's not up to carrying out engagements as we are used to seeing her doing though.
I don't think the Queen will abdicate. If she becomes too sick or somehow incapacitated, Parliament will appoint the Prince of Wales as regent (it happened before in British history !), but Charles won't be king unless he outlives his mother.
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  #685  
Old 06-03-2014, 05:08 PM
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When I heard the news that Juan Carlos was going to abdicate. I thought well if he abdicates maybe The Queen will be a little bit tempted. I still don't think she will abdicate I am just saying it might just cross her mind that its ok to abdicate.

I personally think Monarchs should reign for life by the way.

The Spanish vs. British circumstances are very different.

JC is under a lot of public scrutiny both because of his own actions and his daughter and son-in-law's actions. He is visibly suffering in health. Support for the monarchy in general and JC in specific has been plummeting in recent years. There was already a strong republican movement in Spain, which is only bolstered by the various separatist movements.

JC's decision to abdicate can be seen as something that he's done to help save the Spanish monarchy. He should be applauded for his role in transitioning Spain to democracy, but now in many ways he's outlived his usefulness and if he were to continue to cling to power he would risk the downfall of the monarchy. While republican beliefs are strong in Spain, there is also a lot of support for Felipe, so it's possible that under his reign he could improve the image and standing of the institution.

EII is not under public scrutiny for her actions, and is frequently one of the most popular royals in Britain. Whatever health problem she has (and at 88, she surely has some), they've been kept private. There isn't nearly as strong of a republican movement in Britain, and while there are separatists movements (particularly in Scotland) they're also linked to a debate about achieving independence while maintaining a connection with the crown, like the other Commonwealth Realms. Further, the existence of the Realms makes it that much harder for EII to abdicate - each one of her parliaments would have to pass legislature to allow her to do so (while only Britain would have to act if a Regency were established).

Further, EII abdicating could actually have serious repercussions on the institution of monarchy in Britain. Since the 90s there has been a push for Charles to abdicate in favour of William - fueled by a combination of comments made during the War of the Waleses and a common misunderstanding of the circumstances under which Edward VIII abdicated. While Charles' popularity is increasing and the demands that he abdicate in favour of his son are decreasing, if EII abdicated then it could reignite this - if she can abdicate then why can't Charles? And as such it could very easily turn the British monarchy into a popularity contest. Not to mention the fact that regardless of where people stand on the issue of the Cambridges' duties to date, I think few would argue that William and Catherine are at this point in time ready to b King and Queen.

JC abdicating has the potential of saving his realm, at least for the time, while EII abdicating would have the potential of destroying her realms.
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  #686  
Old 06-03-2014, 05:16 PM
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Since I live in the UK I know all that. I just maybe The Queen may have given it another thought with events in the past 12 months. I don't think she will do it.
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  #687  
Old 06-03-2014, 06:00 PM
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Having had chats and seeing several elderly people now in my own family, it can truly be a case of the spirit being willing and the flesh being weak - I no longer believe in the notion that a monarch has a duty to reign until death, because old age is brutal. I believe a monarch should reign as long as he or she can without putting too much strain on themselves.
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  #688  
Old 06-03-2014, 06:15 PM
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Having had chats and seeing several elderly people now in my own family, it can truly be a case of the spirit being willing and the flesh being weak - I no longer believe in the notion that a monarch has a duty to reign until death, because old age is brutal. I believe a monarch should reign as long as he or she can without putting too much strain on themselves.
I totally agree.

I also think a monarch can best serve his/her people by knowing when to step down and yield the floor to the successor, and by doing it graciously.
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  #689  
Old 06-03-2014, 06:21 PM
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I totally agree.

I also think a monarch can best serve his/her people by knowing when to step down and yield the floor to the successor, and by doing it graciously.
Yes, that too. Sometimes, it's just time to pass the reigns.
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  #690  
Old 06-04-2014, 04:40 AM
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I can imagine that it will happen with QEII once the Duke is gone and she reaches a very old age/is plagued by severe health problems.

She might think about it in order to give Charles the chance to reign, it will be a short reign but an important one in order to possibly make some important changes after the QEII age and adapt to the 21st century. So Charles might be only a 'reformator' before William takes over, but those changes cannot come from William because he is (naturally) lacking gravitas and experience. It takes a senior figure to do a new set-up and implement changes.

So considering this background and the bigger picture with Charles and William following only closely behind, I think QEII might consider abdication at some point, especially after the possible death of her husband.
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  #691  
Old 06-04-2014, 05:13 AM
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I believe a monarch should reign as long as he or she can without putting too much strain on themselves.
I think the notion of "without putting too much strain on themselves" goes very much against the grain of what a) any Professional b) the Head of State c) a constitutional Monarch might consider to be their duty.

IMO, this is not a role that you take on if you think it is in any way secondary to your own self, irrespective of age. I am sure there have been umpteen times HM (and the DoE) has put substantial strain on themselves because they have put their duties to the Crown before themselves!
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  #692  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:03 AM
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I can imagine that it will happen with QEII once the Duke is gone and she reaches a very old age/is plagued by severe health problems . . . .
Well, all indications to the contrary, QEII is actally a very old age or at least, at 88, near enough that it doesn't count and, she shows no sign of stumbling. She and her beloved Consort have made tentative starts at slowing down but let's face it, HM pace is still a darn sight faster and her days fuller and longer that many people half her age.

Now as to her health, I would venture she has had less "sick" days than almost anyone in the UK and the Commonwealth.

Watching the State Opening of Parliament I was impressed by her steadyness during the procession wearing the the Imperial State Crown, weighing in at over 2lb and an teetering height of over 12 inches. Lesser mortals would have stumbled. More, she is as sharp as a tack and her voice is strong and actually rather beautiful.

As to the death of Prince Philip, when that happens I imagine that HM may, and I repeat, may slow down more and leave Prince Charles to pick up the slack but, I truely believe that she will die as The Queen having pledged her duty for her whole life. HM is a woman of faith and integrity and from a generation that believed in dedicating their lives, no ifs, buts or maybes. Illness may overtake her and Charles may become Regent but the notion of HM making a speech to her people announcing her retirement is unimagineable. Really.
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  #693  
Old 06-04-2014, 08:14 AM
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Well, all indications to the contrary, QEII is actally a very old age or at least, at 88, near enough that it doesn't count and, she shows no sign of stumbling. She and her beloved Consort have made tentative starts at slowing down but let's face it, HM pace is still a darn sight faster and her days fuller and longer that many people half her age.

Now as to her health, I would venture she has had less "sick" days than almost anyone in the UK and the Commonwealth.

Watching the State Opening of Parliament I was impressed by her steadyness during the procession wearing the the Imperial State Crown, weighing in at over 2lb and an teetering height of over 12 inches. Lesser mortals would have stumbled. More, she is as sharp as a tack and her voice is strong and actually rather beautiful.

As to the death of Prince Philip, when that happens I imagine that HM may, and I repeat, may slow down more and leave Prince Charles to pick up the slack but, I truely believe that she will die as The Queen having pledged her duty for her whole life. HM is a woman of faith and integrity and from a generation that believed in dedicating their lives, no ifs, buts or maybes. Illness may overtake her and Charles may become Regent but the notion of HM making a speech to her people announcing her retirement is unimagineable. Really.
I was struck with just the opposite impression watching the State Opening of Parliament. To me HM looked to be struggling with the weight of the crown and robe. She is such a pro at hiding any discomfort, however, her body language showed the strain IMO. She is looking more frail in the last few years although her mind is as sharp as ever. I thought while watching that this may close to her last State Opening of Parliament. That is just too much weight for a woman of her age to carry.

The reality here is she doesn't have many more years left regardless of her sharp mind. In the last few years it is apparent that HM and Prince Charles have been preparing for this, but I don't see her ever abdicating. She made it clear when she ascended the throne that to her, this is a duty for life and she will carry on as best she can until she takes her last breath.
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  #694  
Old 06-04-2014, 08:21 AM
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I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.

I believe it would be really bad for the monarchy if Charles trailes along with an really old and really ill mother, still Queen but not seen in public anymore, for some years, with the inevitable following, Queen dies, Charles, alreay old himself, dies shortly afterwards and freshman William will have to take over.
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  #695  
Old 06-04-2014, 08:42 AM
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I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.

I believe it would be really bad for the monarchy if Charles trailes along with an really old and really ill mother, still Queen but not seen in public anymore, for some years, with the inevitable following, Queen dies, Charles, alreay old himself, dies shortly afterwards and freshman William will have to take over.
Abdication, regardless of it's convenience and practicality in certain circumstances, is not going to be something the Queen will do, nor will the public or Parliament expect her to abdicate. HM Queen Elizabeth II is an institution and a sign of continuity to her people and when she does pass, it will be the end of a golden era with a Queen who reigned with dignity and duty and is/was very much loved around the world. I don't think anyone is in a hurry for this to happen, nor when it does will few be prepared for how much HM will be missed. Although Prince Charles may be in his 70's by the time this takes place, whether he reigns for a few years, or 20+ years it will only begin when his mother passes. Not before. I see his reign merely as a transition between QEII and William (whatever name he will rule by) due to his age. I think William's reign will be significant and will begin a new era for the monarchy.
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  #696  
Old 06-04-2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.

I believe it would be really bad for the monarchy if Charles trailes along with an really old and really ill mother, still Queen but not seen in public anymore, for some years, with the inevitable following, Queen dies, Charles, alreay old himself, dies shortly afterwards and freshman William will have to take over.
I agree with you - it would be the worst possible scenario. And I'd think less of her if she did that but she vowed to give her service to the Uk and other realms and I believe that if she couldn't do her job, she would abdicate because that would be the best thing to do.

I watched the State Opening of PArliament to day and she is definitely struggling with stairs and the weight of the cloak (never mind the Crown) seemed to drag her down. Inevitably, she is getting more frail
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  #697  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:14 AM
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The Queen is very fit for her age, but the imperial state crown is heavy and uncomfortable to wear. She always looks frail during the state opening of parliament, she might drop the crown next year.
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  #698  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.
.
The relevant legal point is that there is no need for her to abdicate for Charles to be put in charge. It suffices to appoint Charles as regent. Furthermore, as also noted by others on this board, abdications require a change in the line of succession, which has to be agreed by all Commonwealth realms. All realms that have recently felt necessary to pass domestic legislation to incorporate the new Succession to the Crown Act (i.e. Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and several others, though not all realms) would presumably also have to pass an Abdication Act of their own, which could take a long time.

By contrast, there is already domestic legislation in force in the UK that provides for a regency in case the sovereign is incapacitated. Although the UK legislation doesn't bind the other realms, most of them think no action on their part is necessary as the sovereign's functions in the realms could be carried out by the Governor Generals (as they already ordinarily are).
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  #699  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:26 AM
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The Queen is very fit for her age, but the imperial state crown is heavy and uncomfortable to wear. She always looks frail during the state opening of parliament, she might drop the crown next year.
No - if something has to give, it will be the cloak.
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  #700  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:34 AM
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From what I have seen and learned over the years - will the Queen abdicate? NEVER! To her it is her god given duty. I can see her handing over many duties to Charles but only when she is physically unable. IMHO, to her, abdicating would be a negation of all she has stood for for 61 years.
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