The Queen: Would She Consider Abdication or Retirement?

[muriel]

I believe a monarch should reign as long as he or she can without putting too much strain on themselves.

I think the notion of "without putting too much strain on themselves" goes very much against the grain of what a) any Professional b) the Head of State c) a constitutional Monarch might consider to be their duty.

IMO, this is not a role that you take on if you think it is in any way secondary to your own self, irrespective of age. I am sure there have been umpteen times HM (and the DoE) has put substantial strain on themselves because they have put their duties to the Crown before themselves!

 

[MARG]

I can imagine that it will happen with QEII once the Duke is gone and she reaches a very old age/is plagued by severe health problems . . . .

Well, all indications to the contrary, QEII is actally a very old age or at least, at 88, near enough that it doesn't count and, she shows no sign of stumbling. She and her beloved Consort have made tentative starts at slowing down but let's face it, HM pace is still a darn sight faster and her days fuller and longer that many people half her age.

Now as to her health, I would venture she has had less "sick" days than almost anyone in the UK and the Commonwealth.

Watching the State Opening of Parliament I was impressed by her steadyness during the procession wearing the the Imperial State Crown, weighing in at over 2lb and an teetering height of over 12 inches. Lesser mortals would have stumbled. More, she is as sharp as a tack and her voice is strong and actually rather beautiful.

As to the death of Prince Philip, when that happens I imagine that HM may, and I repeat, may slow down more and leave Prince Charles to pick up the slack but, I truely believe that she will die as The Queen having pledged her duty for her whole life. HM is a woman of faith and integrity and from a generation that believed in dedicating their lives, no ifs, buts or maybes. Illness may overtake her and Charles may become Regent but the notion of HM making a speech to her people announcing her retirement is unimagineable. Really.

 

[texankitcat]

Well, all indications to the contrary, QEII is actally a very old age or at least, at 88, near enough that it doesn't count and, she shows no sign of stumbling. She and her beloved Consort have made tentative starts at slowing down but let's face it, HM pace is still a darn sight faster and her days fuller and longer that many people half her age.

Now as to her health, I would venture she has had less "sick" days than almost anyone in the UK and the Commonwealth.

Watching the State Opening of Parliament I was impressed by her steadyness during the procession wearing the the Imperial State Crown, weighing in at over 2lb and an teetering height of over 12 inches. Lesser mortals would have stumbled. More, she is as sharp as a tack and her voice is strong and actually rather beautiful.

As to the death of Prince Philip, when that happens I imagine that HM may, and I repeat, may slow down more and leave Prince Charles to pick up the slack but, I truely believe that she will die as The Queen having pledged her duty for her whole life. HM is a woman of faith and integrity and from a generation that believed in dedicating their lives, no ifs, buts or maybes. Illness may overtake her and Charles may become Regent but the notion of HM making a speech to her people announcing her retirement is unimagineable. Really.

I was struck with just the opposite impression watching the State Opening of Parliament. To me HM looked to be struggling with the weight of the crown and robe. She is such a pro at hiding any discomfort, however, her body language showed the strain IMO. She is looking more frail in the last few years although her mind is as sharp as ever. I thought while watching that this may close to her last State Opening of Parliament. That is just too much weight for a woman of her age to carry.

The reality here is she doesn't have many more years left regardless of her sharp mind. In the last few years it is apparent that HM and Prince Charles have been preparing for this, but I don't see her ever abdicating. She made it clear when she ascended the throne that to her, this is a duty for life and she will carry on as best she can until she takes her last breath.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.

I believe it would be really bad for the monarchy if Charles trailes along with an really old and really ill mother, still Queen but not seen in public anymore, for some years, with the inevitable following, Queen dies, Charles, alreay old himself, dies shortly afterwards and freshman William will have to take over.

 

[texankitcat]

I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.

I believe it would be really bad for the monarchy if Charles trailes along with an really old and really ill mother, still Queen but not seen in public anymore, for some years, with the inevitable following, Queen dies, Charles, alreay old himself, dies shortly afterwards and freshman William will have to take over.

Abdication, regardless of it's convenience and practicality in certain circumstances, is not going to be something the Queen will do, nor will the public or Parliament expect her to abdicate. HM Queen Elizabeth II is an institution and a sign of continuity to her people and when she does pass, it will be the end of a golden era with a Queen who reigned with dignity and duty and is/was very much loved around the world. I don't think anyone is in a hurry for this to happen, nor when it does will few be prepared for how much HM will be missed. Although Prince Charles may be in his 70's by the time this takes place, whether he reigns for a few years, or 20+ years it will only begin when his mother passes. Not before. I see his reign merely as a transition between QEII and William (whatever name he will rule by) due to his age. I think William's reign will be significant and will begin a new era for the monarchy.

 

[cepe]

I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.

I believe it would be really bad for the monarchy if Charles trailes along with an really old and really ill mother, still Queen but not seen in public anymore, for some years, with the inevitable following, Queen dies, Charles, alreay old himself, dies shortly afterwards and freshman William will have to take over.

I agree with you - it would be the worst possible scenario. And I'd think less of her if she did that but she vowed to give her service to the Uk and other realms and I believe that if she couldn't do her job, she would abdicate because that would be the best thing to do.

I watched the State Opening of PArliament to day and she is definitely struggling with stairs and the weight of the cloak (never mind the Crown) seemed to drag her down. Inevitably, she is getting more frail

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

The Queen is very fit for her age, but the imperial state crown is heavy and uncomfortable to wear. She always looks frail during the state opening of parliament, she might drop the crown next year.

 

[Mbruno]

I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.
.

The relevant legal point is that there is no need for her to abdicate for Charles to be put in charge. It suffices to appoint Charles as regent. Furthermore, as also noted by others on this board, abdications require a change in the line of succession, which has to be agreed by all Commonwealth realms. All realms that have recently felt necessary to pass domestic legislation to incorporate the new Succession to the Crown Act (i.e. Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and several others, though not all realms) would presumably also have to pass an Abdication Act of their own, which could take a long time.

By contrast, there is already domestic legislation in force in the UK that provides for a regency in case the sovereign is incapacitated. Although the UK legislation doesn't bind the other realms, most of them think no action on their part is necessary as the sovereign's functions in the realms could be carried out by the Governor Generals (as they already ordinarily are).

 

[cepe]

The Queen is very fit for her age, but the imperial state crown is heavy and uncomfortable to wear. She always looks frail during the state opening of parliament, she might drop the crown next year.

No - if something has to give, it will be the cloak.

 

[MarNoe]

From what I have seen and learned over the years - will the Queen abdicate? NEVER! To her it is her god given duty. I can see her handing over many duties to Charles but only when she is physically unable. IMHO, to her, abdicating would be a negation of all she has stood for for 61 years.

 

[Osipi]

I think if she gets really old (I am talking about Queen Mum age) with really bad health problems I believe there will be pressure from the public and government for her to abdicate and put Charles officially into power so he can make proper decisions and provide the way for a monarchy under William.

I believe it would be really bad for the monarchy if Charles trailes along with an really old and really ill mother, still Queen but not seen in public anymore, for some years, with the inevitable following, Queen dies, Charles, alreay old himself, dies shortly afterwards and freshman William will have to take over.

I think its more likely that the scenario present itself as you have stated, rather than abdicate, it is more likely that Charles will be created Prince Regent in his mother's stead.

To be honest, I think that if it happened that HM was advised to abdicate due to age/health reasons, it would be something that would actually hasten her death. Serving her country and people has been her life long ambition and to take that away from her really could create more problems than the aging Queen already has.

I would almost bet my last doughnut that, although we don't see it except for a glimmer here and there, Charles and HM/DoE are very much preparing and advising and counseling William on what his future role will be. This isn't a family that leaves things to be done until the last minute.

 

[Mbruno]

I think its more likely that the scenario present itself as you have stated, rather than abdicate, it is more likely that Charles will be created Prince Regent in his mother's stead.

To be honest, I think that if it happened that HM was advised to abdicate due to age/health reasons, it would be something that would actually hasten her death. Serving her country and people has been her life long ambition and to take that away from her really could create more problems than the aging Queen already has.

I would almost bet my last doughnut that, although we don't see it except for a glimmer here and there, Charles and HM/DoE are very much preparing and advising and counseling William on what his future role will be. This isn't a family that leaves things to be done until the last minute.

To be a frank, as an outsider, I am surprised by how actually unprepared both Charles and William are to take the throne. Their formal education for example is modest compared to current/former crown princes/princesses in the continent (Felipe, Victoria, Frederick, Willem-Alexander, etc.), who usually speak four different languages and have multiple university degrees in addition to military training and/or diplomatic experience. In fact, it was painful to see William recently in Canada trying to babble a couple of words in French and sounding like a stereotyptical "ugly Anglo-Saxon tourist".

But, again, Queen Elizabeth II didn't even attend university herself.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

The Queen will never abdicate, nor will the monarchs in Japan, Denmark and Norway.

 

[miche]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Victoria only have a Bachelor degrees which she got a year before her wedding. So how is she more educated than Charles and William?

I don't see the big deal about people having accent when they speak a foreign language. People always get on Mary and Silvia saying they don't speak they language because they have an accent

 

[cepe]

To be a frank, as an outsider, I am surprised by how actually unprepared both Charles and William are to take the throne. Their formal education for example is modest compared to current/former crown princes/princesses in the continent (Felipe, Victoria, Frederick, Willem-Alexander, etc.), who usually speak four different languages and have multiple university degrees in addition to military training and/or diplomatic experience. In fact, it was painful to see William recently in Canada trying to babble a couple of words in French and sounding like a stereotyptical "ugly Anglo-Saxon tourist".

But, again, Queen Elizabeth II didn't even attend university herself.

This smacks of educational snobbery. Some of the most diplomatic, intelligent, articulate, entrepreneurial people never went to university. It is not a true measure of an individuals ability to do other than pass exams.

And not only did the Queen not go to university, she was educated at home.
In her day few women went to university and certainly not during WW2

 

[Al_bina]

The Queen will never abdicate, nor will the monarchs in Japan, Denmark and Norway.

I agree with you that Queen Elizabeth II and Emperor Akihito will not abdicate. However, I am not so sure about Queen Margrethe II and King Harald.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

I agree with you that Queen Elizabeth II and Emperor Akihito will not abdicate. However, I am not so sure about Queen Margrethe and King Harald.

Queen Margarethe has said will remain on the throne until She fall off. She see for Life also

 

[Elly C]

To be a frank, as an outsider, I am surprised by how actually unprepared both Charles and William are to take the throne. Their formal education for example is modest compared to current/former crown princes/princesses in the continent (Felipe, Victoria, Frederick, Willem-Alexander, etc.), who usually speak four different languages and have multiple university degrees in addition to military training and/or diplomatic experience. In fact, it was painful to see William recently in Canada trying to babble a couple of words in French and sounding like a stereotyptical "ugly Anglo-Saxon tourist".

But, again, Queen Elizabeth II didn't even attend university herself.

I don't quite understand how the inability to speak multiple languages makes you unprepared to take the role of monarch. Surely it is about constitutional knowledge, skills of diplomacy and the ability to connect to people which are the essential elements. Yes, it is a real strength if you are multilingual, but if you are an English speaker, you are fortunate that it is not essential. There are many aspects to William's demeanour which suggest he does not give the impression of an "ugly Anglo -Saxon tourist". I am not fluent in French, but I try, and I do not think my efforts are interpreted in such an ungracious way.

 

[Al_bina]

Queen Margarethe has said will remain on the throne until She fall off. She see for Life also

So did King Juan Carlos. However, he is retiring and giving the monarchy a clean slate.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

So did King Juan Carlos. However, he is retiring and giving the monarchy a clean slate.

That is different

 

[NoorMeansLight]

She had better start thinking about it seriously. Time for the 'new' generation to take over. One can hardly claim the Prince of Wales is a schoolboy after all...

 

[Mbruno]

This smacks of educational snobbery. Some of the most diplomatic, intelligent, articulate, entrepreneurial people never went to university. It is not a true measure of an individuals ability to do other than pass exams.

And not only did the Queen not go to university, she was educated at home.
In her day few women went to university and certainly not during WW2

Queen Margrethe II and Queen Beatrix attended university and they are not that much younger than Queen Elizabeth II.

It is not educational snobbery, but a requirement for many jobs nowadays. Why shouldn't we expect Heads of State to be well-educated when we expect that from corporate CEO's and political leaders ?

As for William, I don't mind his accent, but I honestly think it was foolish of him to try to give a speech in French when he obviously can't do it. President Obama can't either, but he knows better and doesn't embarass himself.

 

[Al_bina]

That is different

It remains to be seen. At the same time, another abdication will not come as a surprise to me.

 

[cepe]

Queen Margrethe II and Queen Beatrix attended university and they are not that much younger than Queen Elizabeth II.

It is not educational snobbery, but a requirement for many jobs nowadays. Why shouldn't we expect Heads of State to be well-educated when we expect that from corporate CEO's and political leaders ?

As for William, I don't mind his accent, but I honestly think it was foolish of him to try to give a speech in French when he obviously can't do it. President Obama can't either, but he knows better and doesn't embarass himself.

MArgrethe is 14 years younger - mid/late 50's women were going to university; Beatrix is 12 years younger. Educationally that is a big difference.

HMQ was brought up as an Edwardian young lady by her mother and grandmother - but she had the best constitutional training possible, she speaks fluent french and is well read. Lack of university experience has not made any difference to her ability to be a good monarch

As for William - he was in Canada which uses both English and French. The Country will have appreciated his efforts. He didn't embarrass himself; he was praised for trying.

 

[Mbruno]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Victoria only have a Bachelor degrees which she got a year before her wedding. So how is she more educated than Charles and William?

I don't see the big deal about people having accent when they speak a foreign language. People always get on Mary and Silvia saying they don't speak they language because they have an accent

I suppose technically she does hold only one bachelor's degree, but her overall educational and training experience is far more impressive than Willliam's. That is what the Wikipedia says:

"
Victoria studied for a year (1996/97) at the Université Catholique de l'Ouest at Angers in France, and in the fall term of 1997 participated in a special program following the work of the Riksdag. From 1998 to 2000, Victoria resided in the United States, where she studied various subjects at Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut.[3]
In May 1999, she was an intern at the Swedish Embassy in Washington, D.C. Victoria completed a study program at the Government Offices in 2001.[citation needed] In 2003, Victoria's education continued with visits to Swedish businesses, a study and intern program in agriculture and forestry, as well as completion of the basic soldier training at SWEDINT (the Swedish Armed Forces International Centre).[citation needed]
In 2006, Victoria enrolled in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' Diplomat Program, running from September 2006 to June 2007. The program is a training program for young future diplomats and gives an insight to the ministry's work, Swedish foreign and security policies and Sweden's relations with the rest of the world.[citation needed] In June 2009, she graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree from Uppsala University."

 

[muriel]

Well, all indications to the contrary, QEII is actally a very old age or at least, at 88, near enough that it doesn't count and, she shows no sign of stumbling. She and her beloved Consort have made tentative starts at slowing down but let's face it, HM pace is still a darn sight faster and her days fuller and longer that many people half her age.

Now as to her health, I would venture she has had less "sick" days than almost anyone in the UK and the Commonwealth.

Watching the State Opening of Parliament I was impressed by her steadyness during the procession wearing the the Imperial State Crown, weighing in at over 2lb and an teetering height of over 12 inches. Lesser mortals would have stumbled. More, she is as sharp as a tack and her voice is strong and actually rather beautiful.

As to the death of Prince Philip, when that happens I imagine that HM may, and I repeat, may slow down more and leave Prince Charles to pick up the slack but, I truely believe that she will die as The Queen having pledged her duty for her whole life. HM is a woman of faith and integrity and from a generation that believed in dedicating their lives, no ifs, buts or maybes. Illness may overtake her and Charles may become Regent but the notion of HM making a speech to her people announcing her retirement is unimagineable. Really.

> I agree, HM appears very fit for an 88 year old, and certainly has not had many public engagements cancelled due to illness in her 62 years on the throne.

> What is clear is that a gradual and orderly transition of responsibilities and duties has been underway for the last few years, and may accelerate over the next two years.

> I do not believe there will be an abdication at all. In extreme circumstances there may be a Regency.

 

[Skippyboo]

I don't think you can major in Kingship at University. There is only one person in the world who knows how to be the British monarch- The Queen. How she prepares her heir and how he prepares his heir is done behind the scenes. Time magazine had a cover story on Charles last year. It had a story about Charles teaching William about how to do an investiture up in Birkhall before William did his first one. William used to have tea with the Queen every Sunday while at Eton. Every documentary about the royals when they are asked how they learn how do things, it always watching the older generation and learning on the job.

 

[NoorMeansLight]

It remains to be seen. At the same time, another abdication will not come as surprise to me.

Same thoughts here, Al_bina! This has only been the beginning. People are more and more convinced that an abdication, in any European country, can indeed happen. I will just be waiting for the next announcement while having tea...

 

[Mbruno]

MArgrethe is 14 years younger - mid/late 50's women were going to university; Beatrix is 12 years younger. Educationally that is a big difference.

HMQ was brought up as an Edwardian young lady by her mother and grandmother - but she had the best constitutional training possible, she speaks fluent french and is well read. Lack of university experience has not made any difference to her ability to be a good monarch

As for William - he was in Canada which uses both English and French. The Country will have appreciated his efforts. He didn't embarrass himself; he was praised for trying.

I agree with you that lack of university training did not prevent Queen Elizabeth II from being a good monarch. In fact, I think she excels in her job and is very knowledgeable of diplomatic and government affairs.

I do think, however, that William's education is lacking for someone of his generation and in the current times. Now that he is no longer in active duty in the Armed Forces, it would be advisable for him to pursue a master's degree and get more international and diplomatic experience.

 

[cepe]

I suppose technically she does hold only one bachelor's degree, but her overall educational and training experience is far more impressive than Willliam's. That is what the Wikipedia says:

"
Victoria studied for a year (1996/97) at the Université Catholique de l'Ouest at Angers in France, and in the fall term of 1997 participated in a special program following the work of the Riksdag. From 1998 to 2000, Victoria resided in the United States, where she studied various subjects at Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut.[3]
In May 1999, she was an intern at the Swedish Embassy in Washington, D.C. Victoria completed a study program at the Government Offices in 2001.[citation needed] In 2003, Victoria's education continued with visits to Swedish businesses, a study and intern program in agriculture and forestry, as well as completion of the basic soldier training at SWEDINT (the Swedish Armed Forces International Centre).[citation needed]
In 2006, Victoria enrolled in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' Diplomat Program, running from September 2006 to June 2007. The program is a training program for young future diplomats and gives an insight to the ministry's work, Swedish foreign and security policies and Sweden's relations with the rest of the world.[citation needed] In June 2009, she graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree from Uppsala University."

Her training experience is not as great as the Prince of Wales who holds an equivalent position as heir to the throne but the real training is not the meetings and events - its the confidence given to you by your parent who is monarch that you can do the job. So whether you have had 40 or 4 years training you have the confidence to get on with it should the unexpected happen

That's something formal education cannot give you.