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  #321  
Old 06-28-2011, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I hope that the Queen will outlive Charles.

What a sad comment - to wish that a mother will have to bury their own eldest child.

People do seem to forget that we aren't just talking about cardboard cutouts but real flesh and blood people with real feelings for each other.

The Queen has four children, but every mother will tell you, that there is a special bond with the eldest of those children - and for the Queen that bond is with Charles.

To wish that incredible sadness on a mother is just cruel and nasty thing to wish on any mother.

I wonder why you would want the Queen to go through that pain?
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  #322  
Old 06-28-2011, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I hope that the Queen will outlive Charles.
Do you really hate him that much?
Do you really not care how she would feel about losing her son as long as he wouldn't get to reign?
What a terrible thing to think
Pardon me for playing moderator, but that simply is not a rational opinion.
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  #323  
Old 06-28-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I hope that the Queen will outlive Charles.
I'm sorry, but that is harsh. You may not like him as a future monarch, but think of Her Majesty's feelings as a mother. It would devastate her to burry her child. They're royals yes, but more importantly, they're a family who care about each other (even if it's in ways we cannot understand).
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  #324  
Old 06-28-2011, 11:59 AM
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I admire her majesty greatly, but she's aging and simple math says that she won't reign much longer (and by that I mean that even if she reigns til she's 100, it's only another 15 years, which isn't long relative to how long she already has reigned.)

I don't see her abdicating, though I could be wrong- should she succumb to alzheimers or another form of dementia in her final years, I think she might consider it. But I hope that no matter how or when her majesty's reign ends, Charles is healthy and ready to become King.

In spite of the rocky years and his marital problems, Charles never lost his sense of duty. He was born to this role, and his wife has proven over the years that she'll make a fantastic queen consort, no matter what title she ends up using in the role. I hate the idea of a break in the succession- even if his reign is short, I look forward to seeing Charles as King.

Plus imagine how devastating it would be for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to be thrown into the top roles in the family many years before they thought they'd have to? They'd do it, but it would certainly be a hardship for them.

I think it's incredibly short sighted to hope Charles never becomes king. It ignores everything he's done in service to the UK throughout his entire life.
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  #325  
Old 06-28-2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I hope that the Queen will outlive Charles.
i laughed so hard after reading your comment!
its a bit sad and harsh to say what you said, because firstly the Queen is a mother and women and see her eldest child die before her, might kill her as well with so much pain for seeing her own son being buried.
althought you said that, its possible it could happen, since women tend to live longer than man, and i see the Queen living until 100 years old, but its the worst case scenario! i hope i dont see a tragedy like that, i hope for the normal circle of life, first the The Queen then Charles!
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  #326  
Old 06-28-2011, 01:02 PM
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I've always been fascinated that this question comes up regarding the Queen stepping aside and abdicating. I don't think the concept even exists for HM.
It is not a job, it simply is who she is. She holds fast to the belief that she will
serve her people to her last moment.
Don't think that HM wanted to be Queen (as it would mean that death of her beloved father) but knew it would come to her and she would do her duty to the throne. She views it as a sacred trust and responsibility.
What I do see is that as she ages (and at 85 she is still going strong) she may step back a tiny bit and let Charles and other royals take over some minor roles.
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  #327  
Old 06-28-2011, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I hope that the Queen will outlive Charles.
This is Diana's legacy. No amount of sugar coating it can - for me - change the hate she set in motion. The tragedy of her death - tragic in itself, always will be- was compounded in that she could not lead her 'fans' to a healthier place regarding the RF and Charles. She could not recant - undo the damage done. So there it sits - as a fly in amber.

It seems clear that the British RF does not abdicate. The film 'The King's Speech' - was the first I knew that the old king was doddering. Is this historically accurate? I had always thought - well, I don't know what I thought - died in his sleep after a long illness, I guess what was what I always heard, or thought. But that he was mentally incapacitated - they hid that, not so? Hiding it, who then 'reigned'?

Was the Queen Mother coherent to the end? Was Princess Margaret? Do we know? If not, then there will be a genetic propensity - not saying it will happen - we are each different, yet I wouldn't be surprised. Dementia comes on over a long time and can be cloaked - look at one of our presidents! Sad to say, the suspicion is that at the end of RR's presidency he was suffering the onset of alzheimer's.

Ack! Not a pleasant subject - and so hard on any family that has to see the old ones through such a time. Consider the responsibility on Charles and Camilla's shoulders.

Its been indicated that the Queen would not abdicate because she saw the effect on her parents. Someone mentioned that the throne being thrust upon William and Kate would be a similar devastating event - consider that it would mean for William the loss of both parent and grandparent in fairly quick order. Not pleasant. Stressful.
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  #328  
Old 06-28-2011, 02:28 PM
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I am no fan of Charles, but to wish that he dies before his mother is awful. What a burden that would be for the queen, whom, I suppose this person admires. No, hopefully, he will out live his mother, which is the natural order of things.
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  #329  
Old 06-28-2011, 02:38 PM
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Just look what happened to QEQM, dying just a few months after her youngest daughter. It was inevitable, I know, but I think it took the life out of her. NO ONE should have to bury their children, no matter what age they are.
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  #330  
Old 06-28-2011, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I hope that the Queen will outlive Charles.
I was sure that I had mis-read that comment for a moment. I'm amazed at its utter crassness.
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  #331  
Old 06-28-2011, 03:06 PM
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I have a sort of second question to the main one of this thread. Do you think she would abdicate in order to "save" the monarchy?

What I mean by this is...(sort of a lot of what ifs and kind of convoluted but follow my thinking...I'm just curious on what people think of this speculation...)

Say that she does live another 15-20 years, but knows that someone in their late 90s-100s will (obviously and understandably) not be able to carry out many duties so say she turns into more of a recluse and just comes out to do a few events per year. However, she also knows that the general public may look less favorably on supporting a monarch who (for lack of a better word) doesn't do much - even after a lifetime of service. So she may think that it would be better for Charles to become king to keep people feeling more positive about an "active" monarchy (i.e. a monarch who spends all day every day serving the people). Would she abdicate then?

How active was the QEQM in her final 10 years? I think it's reasonable to assume that even if she feels it's her duty, a 100 year old just can't be very active in a day-to-day sense. Do you get what I mean?

I suppose she will just continue to do fewer engagements and Charles and W/C and Harry (and his future wife?) will do more? Not that I wish ANY of them to die but this whole thing is kind of fascinating from a historical or bigger picture point of view.

I'm not advocating for one way or the other (abdicate or not) - and personally think she would not abdicate under any circumstance (although I do think it's funny that she says she was appointed by god when it was really just the circumstance of her uncle abdicating...if he had married and had children she never would have become queen! But I'm not religious so I guess that reasoning just doesn't speak to me...). It's weird to think of her not being queen!
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  #332  
Old 06-28-2011, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
i laughed so hard after reading your comment!
its a bit sad and harsh to say what you said, because firstly the Queen is a mother and women and see her eldest child die before her, might kill her as well with so much pain for seeing her own son being buried.
althought you said that, its possible it could happen, since women tend to live longer than man, and i see the Queen living until 100 years old, but its the worst case scenario! i hope i dont see a tragedy like that, i hope for the normal circle of life, first the The Queen then Charles!
I wish I could see some/any humor in Renata's remark, but I cannot.

No, the Queen will not resign, that's not how it's done. It's played out to the end, and they all know it.

I wish them the normal course of events. I hate to think that either Elizabeth or Phillip will be without the other for awhile, as they clearly shoulder the burden of what they do together. He is looking quite frail. They are courageous to keep at it, most of us will be leading far less energetic lives at their ages.

Then, Charles will have his chance at being King. It must be very hard to be in his position, he gets the job only after a parent dies. This is one of the downsides of monarchy, it structures a family in a particular way and there's no getting around it. Still, it is their family and they are doing what all families do - doing things the family way.

If the Queen were to suffer a debilitating illness (God forbid), then provisions could be made for her retirement, but that's the only circumstance (I believe) that Charles would rule in her stead without her burial first.

Charles knows he may well be in his 70's when he ascends the throne, and I doubt he'll change his life much when he does, he already has his causes and he will continue to do what he does. Since he was rather older when he fathered William than Elizabeth was when she had him, William will likely be younger when he comes to the throne - but many of us here will not live to see that day.

I can't imagine why anyone would wish anyone dead, except in the cases of extreme criminal behavior.
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  #333  
Old 06-28-2011, 05:56 PM
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Hi,

Let us look ahead to the Diamond Jubilee Ceremonies. That is a positive event(s) that should keep us all going - The Queen & Prince Philip included.......

I believe that The Queen and Prince now spend more days of the week at Windsor than they once did. Thursday afternoon to Monday noon.... So they can relax more now than before.

I also do not think that there will be an abdication, but perhaps a more & more retiring from public view after the Jubilee.
Charles and Camilla should then, and actually now, be out & about more & more doing public duties. It would add to their approval rating for those who dislike them.
Also, in a year or two, William and Catherine and even Harry could pitch in!!

There is always a Regency, should The Queen become incapacitated (please, NO) - - it has precedence with George III and his PoW....

As for a 100 year old monarch, the Queen Mother (while not the Sovereign) was revered to her dying day. And the massive crowds for her funeral and those paying their respects just proves that!!

Larry
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  #334  
Old 06-28-2011, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
This is Diana's legacy. No amount of sugar coating it can - for me - change the hate she set in motion. The tragedy of her death - tragic in itself, always will be- was compounded in that she could not lead her 'fans' to a healthier place regarding the RF and Charles. She could not recant - undo the damage done. So there it sits - as a fly in amber.
There is another thread about Diana's legacy and you see this exact answer, less succinctly stated, all through it.

Yes. Whatever good she did, and I will give that she did some good, maybe even a lot of good, it can never weigh more, in my mind, than this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
It seems clear that the British RF does not abdicate. The film 'The King's Speech' - was the first I knew that the old king was doddering. Is this historically accurate? I had always thought - well, I don't know what I thought - died in his sleep after a long illness, I guess what was what I always heard, or thought. But that he was mentally incapacitated - they hid that, not so? Hiding it, who then 'reigned'?
Which old king? George V? I don't remember him being doddering. I think the bare facts are accurate - but, of course, no one knows what was said and done in the moment to moment situations. There are some glaring inaccuracies in the time line - such as the timing (length and commencement) of "Bertie's" speech therapy - but all in all I think it got the facts of the abdication accurate.

George V was the father of both Edward VIII and George VI - and he died of sound mind and frail body (he was ill for much of his later reign), as far as I know, although I am no scholar on the matter.

I believe Elizabeth will die while in office and Charles will do the same. And so it should be. I dislike the notion that the matter of the succession (or any of the basic traditions that make it what it is) of the monarchy is subject in any way, direct or indirect, to the popular opinion of the day.
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  #335  
Old 06-28-2011, 06:27 PM
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Yes, "regency" is the word I thought I wanted, wasn't sure. Thank you, VecchioLarry.
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  #336  
Old 06-28-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
This is Diana's legacy. No amount of sugar coating it can - for me - change the hate she set in motion. The tragedy of her death - tragic in itself, always will be- was compounded in that she could not lead her 'fans' to a healthier place regarding the RF and Charles. She could not recant - undo the damage done. So there it sits - as a fly in amber.
Perfectly said Tyger. This is exactly why I am not a Diana fan.

On the issue of the actual thread (which I realise I haven't really said anything about) I could see a Regency being put in place, should The Queen become greatly incapacitated (let's hope not) but I can't see her actually abdicating. She made a promise to be The Sovereign for the rest of her life.
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  #337  
Old 06-28-2011, 09:25 PM
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This thread isn't about Diana, if you wish to focus on her legacy please do so here
Diana's legacy : What is left or what will be left ? .

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  #338  
Old 06-28-2011, 10:17 PM
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I agree with those who say the Queen won't abdicate. As for Charles stepping aside, I think that is an idea planted by Diana's camp, not something that someone raised with a sense of duty would do. And I adored Diana & have never cared that much for Charles!
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  #339  
Old 06-28-2011, 10:39 PM
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Which old king? George V? I don't remember him being doddering. I think the bare facts are accurate - but, of course, no one knows what was said and done in the moment to moment situations. There are some glaring inaccuracies in the time line - such as the timing (length and commencement) of "Bertie's" speech therapy - but all in all I think it got the facts of the abdication accurate.

George V was the father of both Edward VIII and George VI - and he died of sound mind and frail body (he was ill for much of his later reign), as far as I know, although I am no scholar on the matter.
Oh, dear, Catherine, you got me! I was being oblique because I wasn't sure of the name. Yes, George V. In 'The King's Speech' there is a scene with his family and other officials present. They want him to sign a document - he is clearly suffering from some sort of dementia. So this doesn't tally with 'sound mind, frail body'. Why would the film have concocted this if its not true?
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  #340  
Old 06-29-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I hope that the Queen will outlive Charles.
my husbands cousin had to bury both his younger brother and his son aged 6. This was a very distressing time for all the family, not just immediate but the extended family as well. I can only assume that this comment has been made by someone who has not experanced the trauma of a life cut short.
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