The Queen, the Obamas and the G20 Summit: April 2, 2009

[tommy1716]

In my opinion the whole "breaking protocol" issue i being blown way out proportion. There is one person who can break the rulesand that is HM, she is the monarch and if she decides to break with the normal then that is entirely up to her. The First Lady was, from watching the footage and from comments from the President etc, very nervous about meeting the Queen. At the very worst we could say that Mrs O "forgot herself" for a moment and reacted in what appears to be a very normal manner for her. That may have been against "the rules" but HM did not seem to care one bit. If HM had cared, even if she had felt obliged to return the gesture because she was being observed then palace officals didn't have to report that inf act HM was not at all bothered or offended. IF the Queen was upset don't you think we would have heard about it by ow from those "close sources" and "senior officials" we hear so much about?
Simply put, yes technically there was a "breach of protocol" and it members of teh public shouldn't take it as a sign that its ok to go about hugging HM but mistakes are made, HM didn't seem to care at all. So whats the deal? I think this is a typical case of people being offended on 'behalf of the royals' when in fact the royals themselves aren't bothered.
Wow that was a long post.

 

[Skydragon]

Protocol is protocol, don't touch, full stop. The whole handling only shows HM's class and larger-than-life personality.

Precisely.

At the very worst we could say that Mrs O "forgot herself"

You could say that, but MO is supposed to be representing her country and forgetting yourself is hardly acceptable. I am not offended on behalf of the royals, I am put out by the excuses being put forward to cover the breaking of a tradition that has held for centuries. The wife of a head of state 'forgot' to observe the traditions/protocol of another country, no excuses, plain and simple.

 

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi,

Do any of you remember when the rather large black lady threw her arms around The Queen?
It happened during a home tour in Virginia, I think, during one of HM's tours of the USA...

The Queen looked a little astonished for a moment and then smiled and then they all had tea or something!!

I think she's used to small cliches and startling events after nearly 60 years on the throne.

She's had Moaris brandishing spears at her and drunk some foul liquids and even had a nervous bishop curtsey to her...
Through it all, she didn't scream, vomit or laugh out loud. More than I could do....

Long may she reign!!

Larry

 

[4Pam]

I thought it was great that Mrs. Obama and the Queen "hugged" each other (if you can call what they did a hug). I thought it was a nice gesture for both women and it sent the message of the Queen being a more open woman.

 

[Roslyn]

(the last two posts)

I think it was HM who initiated the touching with Mrs O, but even if there is still some doubt about that, I suppose it's possible that HM is less concerned when it is a woman who touches her rather than a man.

As for Paul Keating, I have always detested the man so I was delighted with the "Lizard of Oz" expression and still use it to refer to him.

 

[Odette]

With regard to this whole affaire, I wholeheartedly I agree that Mrs Obama, no matter how nervous or friendly she is she should not have touched the Queen.
A few years back the Queen was in NYC and visited a group home. One of the volunteers gave her a bear hug. HM turned and smiled for the cameras. This is class and dignity. She is a professional and would have never moved away or showed surprise. She behaved again the same way no matter how she felt.
The other scene that surprised me was when the royal couple and the Obamas were to pose for a picture. The Duke stood next to the Queen and gestured to Mrs Obama to stand on his left. She walked in front of him and stood next to the Queen while the Duke stood at the end. Was that a breach?, was it her thinking she wanted to take a photo next to her new BFF? was it jitters? Who knows?? One thing is certain it was wrong.
As to the bulletin the BP released about this am I wrong to believe that it is the PM and 10 Downing Street that speak on behalf of the Queen when it comes to such matters??

 

[Ella Kay]

As to the bulletin the BP released about this am I wrong to believe that it is the PM and 10 Downing Street that speak on behalf of the Queen when it comes to such matters??

Why would Downing Street need to get involved? It's not as if who can/cannot touch The Queen is a matter for the government. BP doesn't have a whole lot of power anymore, but surely it does still have the ultimate say on matters of protocol.

 

[Lilla]

IMO this huge discussion about Mrs. Obama touching QEII is a storm in teacup.

 

[Russophile]

With regard to this whole affaire, I wholeheartedly I agree that Mrs Obama, no matter how nervous or friendly she is she should not have touched the Queen.
A few years back the Queen was in NYC and visited a group home. One of the volunteers gave her a bear hug. HM turned and smiled for the cameras. This is class and dignity. She is a professional and would have never moved away or showed surprise. She behaved again the same way no matter how she felt.
The other scene that surprised me was when the royal couple and the Obamas were to pose for a picture. The Duke stood next to the Queen and gestured to Mrs Obama to stand on his left. She walked in front of him and stood next to the Queen while the Duke stood at the end. Was that a breach?, was it her thinking she wanted to take a photo next to her new BFF? was it jitters? Who knows?? One thing is certain it was wrong.
As to the bulletin the BP released about this am I wrong to believe that it is the PM and 10 Downing Street that speak on behalf of the Queen when it comes to such matters??

I agree. Rules were created to keep people safe and secure.
But then again, what do I know? I'm such a radical: I actually come to a full stop at stop signs and not cruise right through them like so many other drivers I see. . .

 

[Lamyah]

Buckingham Palace Address the Hug Controversy

This whole pointless controversy is tragically entertaining. Perhaps someone forgot to remind the Queen she forgot her 'own' protocol when she initiated a hug for the first time in anyone's memory.

Michelle Obama Hugs Queen Elizabeth, Stirs Controversy (PHOTO, POLL, VIDEO) - HP

No-one - including the ladies-in-waiting standing nearby - could believe their eyes. In 57 years, the Queen has never been seen to make that kind of gesture and it is certainly against all protocol to touch her.

'But she didn't seem to mind a bit and was smiling and joking throughout,' the eyewitness said.

Buckingham Palace weighs in on first lady's touching moment - CNN

First lady Michelle Obama did not breach protocol by touching Queen Elizabeth II at a reception for world leaders attending the G-20 summit, Buckingham Palace told CNN Thursday.

If any 'excuses' is being made, its certainly not coming from the Obama camp, rather the Queen herself, or her spokesperson for that matter.

 

[Skydragon]

Perhaps someone forgot to remind the Queen she forgot her 'own' protocol when she initiated a hug for the first time in anyone's memory.

Who touched who first is up to the individual to decide, depending on which news programme or paper you read. From your own link, it is clear to me that HM was trying to move MO into the room a little more, MO then put her arm fully around HM, whilst HM removed her arm and herself from the situation. As described by an American journalist, the 'huggy type person never considers the victims feelings'. Most people on the receiving end, smile, joke and helppppp.

I must have blinked and missed a mutual 'hug'.

 

[Warren]

I must have blinked and missed a mutual 'hug'.

It got so steamy it had to be cut out. The missing footage will show up on YouTube soon.

 

[COUNTESS]

It is such nonsense. The First Lady put her arm around the queen. So what. The archaic rules that of not touching this "holy person" is ridiculous. The Queen is just another person. Nothing more or less. She didn't grab her in an embrace. And the queen touched the First Lady. Oh my. Those who need to groan about this are devoid of actual activity, so this looked big. It was a unremarkable moment and the two people who were involved are not any the worse for wear

 

[Russophile]

It got so steamy it had to be cut out. The missing footage will show up on YouTube soon.

Really? Tell me when, cuz Enquiring Minds wanna know. . . . .

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Don't get me wrong I like the Obamas, especially for representing a different America than their predecessor. Altough they come across (and probably are to a degree) as quite genuine and warm, they know exactly how to create positive headlines, even better when the world is watching and the most famous Head of State is involved. Therefore, regarding the "touchy" topic, I can't help thinking Honi soit qui mal y pense Obama came to London to rule the G20, it was his opportunity to shine (not too much of a task to outshine the rather dull host couple) and he and Michelle took on the task in an ultra-professional manner, as usual.

Some people say that Obama should have won the Best Actor Award at this years' Oscars; something I had to think of when watching the video where Berlusconi made the Queen do a gaffe. At the very beginning it shows how Obama can switch his smile on and off and on again. Trained to perfection. But still, it stands out and when the day comes and he loses his job, he can make a lot of money posing for toothpaste

'We are NOT offended': Palace tries to smooth over Queen's 'Why does that man have to shout' jibe at Berlusconi | Mail Online

 

[Warren]

It's probably better we focus on the royal angle(s) rather than Obama himself.

 

[Skydragon]

The Queen is just another person.

Possibly to some Americans, however as has already been said, it is better if visitors manage to follow the rules of the country they are visiting, rules the majority of other people manage to remember.

They are now long gone, lets just hope if they do meet again, MO is fully versed in what is and is not acceptable.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

When Jacqueline Kennedy visited Buckingham Palace as First Lady in 1961 there were NO visible faux pas. Everyone was as beautiful and formal and correct as could be.

There is a memorable photo of Jackie looking stunning in an ice blue sleeveless satin gown and the Queen in a full ballgown...the Duke of Edinburgh and President Kennedy are smiling into the cameras but Mrs Kennedy and the Queen looked stiff and uncomfortable.

Two different Jackie biographers wrote that when she returned to Washington she had a field day making fun of the Queen's "frumpy"clothing...she even made up a skit for her pals mimicking her voice(Jackie was a cruel and on-target mimic) She implied that the Queen had seemed uncomfortable around her and some eyewitnesses to the meeting concurred that Mrs Kennedy's worldly sophistication had not gone over well with Elizabeth II's more down to earth personality.(Jackie and the Duke of Edinburgh got on famously...he is one of the few heads of State she met with privately after JFK's funeral)

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I would MUCH rather have this type of meeting...two warm and down to earth women very obviously hitting it off even if one of them made a slight protocal breach...what's the real harm?

 

[James in London]

Now that is interesting... although one thing I would say is that when the Kennedy's came to Buck House, the Queen looked fabulous in blue net (I'm sure there is a technical name for it!) but perhaps to Jackie O's eyes, it was frumpy... Of course it could all be rubbish. I rather like the idea of Jackie O impersonating the Queen though after all, why can't icons take the mickey out of each other - makes a change from us lot doing it!!!

 

[Madame Royale]

he is one of the few heads of State she met with privately after JFK's funeral)

He isn't a Head of State. He's a representative.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I stand corrected Madame R...of course you are correct.

But she met with him privately along with Haile Selassie of Ethiopia, Charles deGaulle of France, and Eamon deValera of Ireland.

The others were required to stand in the receiving line.

And James, Jackie had quite a long list of burlesques that she performed regularly in the White House. She even mimicked her husband's Boston accent when she was cross with him.

She is rumored to have hated Queen Frederika of Greece with a passion as well. Why? I have no idea.

She just didn't like women that much period, I think.

 

[Skydragon]

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I would MUCH rather have this type of meeting...two warm and down to earth women very obviously hitting it off even if one of them made a slight protocal breach...what's the real harm?

Talking to friends, some were appalled, others didn't like it but put it down to 'well she is an American and they are touchy, feely'. I think that is the difference, the ones who were horrified at the breach of protocol are absolutely against the Americanisms that have crept into our society and the intrusion into their personal space by the touchy, feely brigade. The others, although they were shocked at the lapse are the ones who are not quite so at getting manhandled by a total stranger.

 

[MARG]

Actually I think Skydragon is on to something here. With all the oh's, ah's and OMG's, there is something far more important in play here. Personal Space in general, the Queen's personal space in particular.s

In these days of rip, tear and bust, personal space is vital. It gives one the illusion of being in control of your immediate world and you can invite people in, or not, at your own discretion. It also allows you to keep those "in-your-face" types at a comfortable distance.

Whist I think that touching (or groping) the royal personages should be severely discouraged, I believe it is easy to overlook the more important issue of the Queen herself. Whilst the "touchy feely" brigade all gushed, emoted and "touched, patted or whatever", the Queen, HM is in the unenviable position of being assailled by the hoards. No, make that totally awfully, horrendously vulnerable to being generally mauled by all and sundry.

A small gesture of friendship or intimacy was beamed around the waiting world, all agog to see how "The Meeting" went. So it went, OK for some, not so for others but, a very undesireable precedent has been set. Will other WAGs feel slighted if they don't get the touch the royal personage. Will Preident Sarkozy's chivalrous continental kiss on the hand now give way to the Continental "Two Peck"?

To put it in context, HM is one, not-so-tall, woman in her eighties and like it or not, getting frailer by the day. And as Queen she is required to host all those foreign dignitaries (plus WAGs) the Government see's fit to invite.

Lucky her . . . . . will it be a sedate handshake or a bone-shaking bear-hug? What joy is hers!

 

[Madame Royale]

She is rumored to have hated Queen Frederika of Greece with a passion as well. Why? I have no idea.

I hadn't heard that. If true, I'm sure HM remained unaffected by the such spite. Why should have she cared? I know I wouldn't have given a moments thought to Jacqueline's opinion.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Its interesting how everyone keeps mentioning protocol and how this simply isn't done. So my next question is....is there anything official on how one should act when meeting the Queen. Like a link for official protocol?

Cause again, if we are going by the Buckingham Palace source...than this all much to do about nothing.

I guess my question is this...why is okay for the Queen to touch YOU first, but you can't touch HER first?

And she did touch the First Lady first. She put her arm gently around the younger woman's lower back and NO she was not trying to nudge or move her anywhere. And Mrs O simply responded to the gesture.

I suppose it was a breach of protocal, but what if Mrs Obama had been like me, adverse to being touched by strangers??

The Obamas comported themselves MUCH better than President Bush with his winking and inappropriate wisecracking at the Queen. If Obama had done that imagine the uproar.

This whole thing is so silly to me it seems almost surreal.

 

[Johnnie]

Oh, those Obamas. Barack is quite overrated, in my humble opinion. One does tire of "all glitz and no substance" after a while. I do think it was QUITE out of place for Mrs. Obama to be so forward with Her Majesty, yet one supposes that one must overlook the social differences of the Americans. That said, I still think it was NOT suitable at all. Her Majesty handled the matter with her usual grace and diplomacy.

Well, time for my pre-dinner martini. Two olives.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Point well taken Johnnie. But you don't think HM herself was being "forward" by touching Michelle first I take it?

Or was that her right to do that as Queen? What am I missing here?

 

[Johnnie]

It was, and is, the perrogative of Her Majesty to interact with a guest in her presence as She wishes. Granted, She did in fact reach out and initiate the physical contact. That said, Mrs. Obama (or anyone, for that matter) MUST exercise both caution and common sense when the aformentioned occurs. In my English opinion, while one could, on some level, understand the reciprocal physical contact by Mrs. Obama, one cannot quite comprehend the extent of it, in regards to Mrs. Obama actually putting her arm around the waist of Her Majesty.

While some may argue no disrespect was intended, and I concur, one must realize that a certain level of respect was absent.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I think Mrs Obama DID react with appropriate reserve...she returned the woman's gesture as gently as it was offered.

If she had kissed her cheek or grabbed her I might understand the controversy.

Was there this much nitpicking when George W. Bush WINKED at her Majesty??

Thank goodness I'm just a good ol' American peon, is all I can say.

Sheesh.

 

[Johnnie]

My Dear California Dreamin', it's simply a matter of good graces. And as for Mr. Bush, well, he is quite another matter, altogether. One blessed with any sense of intelligence could rightly observe that Mr. Bush was quite without class of any sort.

I do believe the "nitpicking" as you deem it, is a result of the fact that one must ALWAYS remember who they are, where they are, and with whom they are interacting with, regardless of the circumstances of the interaction.

And do be more positive about yourself; after all, not all Americans are peons. There are some well bred ones, to be sure.