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  #141  
Old 04-06-2009, 08:38 PM
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I stand corrected Madame R...of course you are correct.

But she met with him privately along with Haile Selassie of Ethiopia, Charles deGaulle of France, and Eamon deValera of Ireland.

The others were required to stand in the receiving line.

And James, Jackie had quite a long list of burlesques that she performed regularly in the White House. She even mimicked her husband's Boston accent when she was cross with him.

She is rumored to have hated Queen Frederika of Greece with a passion as well. Why? I have no idea.

She just didn't like women that much period, I think.
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  #142  
Old 04-07-2009, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
I suppose what I am trying to say is that I would MUCH rather have this type of meeting...two warm and down to earth women very obviously hitting it off even if one of them made a slight protocal breach...what's the real harm?
Talking to friends, some were appalled, others didn't like it but put it down to 'well she is an American and they are touchy, feely'. I think that is the difference, the ones who were horrified at the breach of protocol are absolutely against the Americanisms that have crept into our society and the intrusion into their personal space by the touchy, feely brigade. The others, although they were shocked at the lapse are the ones who are not quite so at getting manhandled by a total stranger.
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  #143  
Old 04-07-2009, 05:04 AM
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Actually I think Skydragon is on to something here. With all the oh's, ah's and OMG's, there is something far more important in play here. Personal Space in general, the Queen's personal space in particular.s

In these days of rip, tear and bust, personal space is vital. It gives one the illusion of being in control of your immediate world and you can invite people in, or not, at your own discretion. It also allows you to keep those "in-your-face" types at a comfortable distance.

Whist I think that touching (or groping) the royal personages should be severely discouraged, I believe it is easy to overlook the more important issue of the Queen herself. Whilst the "touchy feely" brigade all gushed, emoted and "touched, patted or whatever", the Queen, HM is in the unenviable position of being assailled by the hoards. No, make that totally awfully, horrendously vulnerable to being generally mauled by all and sundry.

A small gesture of friendship or intimacy was beamed around the waiting world, all agog to see how "The Meeting" went. So it went, OK for some, not so for others but, a very undesireable precedent has been set. Will other WAGs feel slighted if they don't get the touch the royal personage. Will Preident Sarkozy's chivalrous continental kiss on the hand now give way to the Continental "Two Peck"?

To put it in context, HM is one, not-so-tall, woman in her eighties and like it or not, getting frailer by the day. And as Queen she is required to host all those foreign dignitaries (plus WAGs) the Government see's fit to invite.

Lucky her . . . . . will it be a sedate handshake or a bone-shaking bear-hug? What joy is hers!
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  #144  
Old 04-07-2009, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
She is rumored to have hated Queen Frederika of Greece with a passion as well. Why? I have no idea.
I hadn't heard that. If true, I'm sure HM remained unaffected by the such spite. Why should have she cared? I know I wouldn't have given a moments thought to Jacqueline's opinion.
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  #145  
Old 04-07-2009, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Its interesting how everyone keeps mentioning protocol and how this simply isn't done. So my next question is....is there anything official on how one should act when meeting the Queen. Like a link for official protocol?

Cause again, if we are going by the Buckingham Palace source...than this all much to do about nothing.

I guess my question is this...why is okay for the Queen to touch YOU first, but you can't touch HER first?

And she did touch the First Lady first. She put her arm gently around the younger woman's lower back and NO she was not trying to nudge or move her anywhere. And Mrs O simply responded to the gesture.

I suppose it was a breach of protocal, but what if Mrs Obama had been like me, adverse to being touched by strangers??

The Obamas comported themselves MUCH better than President Bush with his winking and inappropriate wisecracking at the Queen. If Obama had done that imagine the uproar.

This whole thing is so silly to me it seems almost surreal.
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  #146  
Old 04-07-2009, 04:37 PM
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Oh, those Obamas. Barack is quite overrated, in my humble opinion. One does tire of "all glitz and no substance" after a while. I do think it was QUITE out of place for Mrs. Obama to be so forward with Her Majesty, yet one supposes that one must overlook the social differences of the Americans. That said, I still think it was NOT suitable at all. Her Majesty handled the matter with her usual grace and diplomacy.

Well, time for my pre-dinner martini. Two olives.
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  #147  
Old 04-07-2009, 04:41 PM
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Point well taken Johnnie. But you don't think HM herself was being "forward" by touching Michelle first I take it?

Or was that her right to do that as Queen? What am I missing here?
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  #148  
Old 04-07-2009, 04:51 PM
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It was, and is, the perrogative of Her Majesty to interact with a guest in her presence as She wishes. Granted, She did in fact reach out and initiate the physical contact. That said, Mrs. Obama (or anyone, for that matter) MUST exercise both caution and common sense when the aformentioned occurs. In my English opinion, while one could, on some level, understand the reciprocal physical contact by Mrs. Obama, one cannot quite comprehend the extent of it, in regards to Mrs. Obama actually putting her arm around the waist of Her Majesty.

While some may argue no disrespect was intended, and I concur, one must realize that a certain level of respect was absent.
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  #149  
Old 04-07-2009, 04:57 PM
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I think Mrs Obama DID react with appropriate reserve...she returned the woman's gesture as gently as it was offered.

If she had kissed her cheek or grabbed her I might understand the controversy.

Was there this much nitpicking when George W. Bush WINKED at her Majesty??

Thank goodness I'm just a good ol' American peon, is all I can say.

Sheesh.
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  #150  
Old 04-07-2009, 05:06 PM
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My Dear California Dreamin', it's simply a matter of good graces. And as for Mr. Bush, well, he is quite another matter, altogether. One blessed with any sense of intelligence could rightly observe that Mr. Bush was quite without class of any sort.

I do believe the "nitpicking" as you deem it, is a result of the fact that one must ALWAYS remember who they are, where they are, and with whom they are interacting with, regardless of the circumstances of the interaction.

And do be more positive about yourself; after all, not all Americans are peons. There are some well bred ones, to be sure.
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  #151  
Old 04-07-2009, 05:23 PM
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Charming response Johnnie, thank you.

And I'd undoubtedly share your view if Mrs Obama had been the one to initiate the contact but she did not...it was Lilibet herself who got got the ball rolling, as it were.

Of course I'd prefer if Mrs Obama had kept her hands to herself...but only because I knew the tiresome media hacks would blow this thing up into some type of international incident.
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  #152  
Old 04-07-2009, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnnie View Post
My Dear California Dreamin', it's simply a matter of good graces. And as for Mr. Bush, well, he is quite another matter, altogether. One blessed with any sense of intelligence could rightly observe that Mr. Bush was quite without class of any sort.

I do believe the "nitpicking" as you deem it, is a result of the fact that one must ALWAYS remember who they are, where they are, and with whom they are interacting with, regardless of the circumstances of the interaction.

And do be more positive about yourself; after all, not all Americans are peons. There are some well bred ones, to be sure.


"one must overlook the social differences of the Americans."

Johnnie: As an American, I am absolutely dumbfounded at these two highlighted statements which you made ...

My thoughts on the social graces of Canadians? I won't give you the satisfaction of knowing ...
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  #153  
Old 04-07-2009, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnie View Post
It was, and is, the perrogative of Her Majesty to interact with a guest in her presence as She wishes. Granted, She did in fact reach out and initiate the physical contact. That said, Mrs. Obama (or anyone, for that matter) MUST exercise both caution and common sense when the aformentioned occurs.

While some may argue no disrespect was intended, and I concur, one must realize that a certain level of respect was absent.
Hmm failing to return the gesture would have lead to a media frenzy about the cold unfeeling woman who snubbed her Majesty the Queen of England when she made a gesture of warmth and friendship.... Cannot believe this is still an issue there was no tongue kissing lets get over it
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  #154  
Old 04-07-2009, 08:49 PM
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.... there was no tongue kissing
Psst! Warren says that's on YouTube curtosey of the National Enquirer. . . .



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  #155  
Old 04-07-2009, 08:58 PM
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Oooohhh does he have a link????? That I will watch
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  #156  
Old 04-07-2009, 09:20 PM
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Oooohhh does he have a link????? That I will watch
That's Off the record, on the QT, and very hush-hush. . . .
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  #157  
Old 04-07-2009, 09:50 PM
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No matter what, the protocol was breached. Her Majesty can do whatever she wishes, She is The Queen. We are talking about centuries-old tradition and Michelle Obama's action was simply a mistake, she should not have touched the Queen. The whole thing shows disrespect to the Queen and the Institution of the Monarchy.
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  #158  
Old 04-07-2009, 11:06 PM
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Having read through this thread, and having myself expressed an opinion, I tend to agree with Skydragon's reasoning. My initial reaction was 'how sweet an expression' and I viewed the situation as many typical commoners would. Of course.

From outside the fish bowl, however, we gaze with enthusiasm and generally delight in such things, though 'inside' there are ways to express oneself in adherence to the protocols and etiquette of the established concurrence and they should be, imo, observed. It's why they are instituted in the first place, afterall.

I don't think we'll see Mrs Obama do it again.
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  #159  
Old 04-08-2009, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by platinum69 View Post
No matter what, the protocol was breached. Her Majesty can do whatever she wishes, She is The Queen. We are talking about centuries-old tradition and Michelle Obama's action was simply a mistake, she should not have touched the Queen. The whole thing shows disrespect to the Queen and the Institution of the Monarchy.
Just because something is a "centuries-old tradition" does not make it right or mean we should continue to act in accordance with that tradition merely because it is centuries-old. Some are worth keeping and observing but that is because they are inherently worthy. Some, however, are now illegal as being in breach of anti-discrimination or other legislation and contemporary social standards.

HM is a much-loved, much respected monarch, but I feel very, very uneasy about the Queen being accorded some sort of special status over and above that which is due to the democratically elected Head of State of a modern Republic like the United States of America and his wife.
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  #160  
Old 04-08-2009, 02:25 AM
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Special status?

Respective Heads of State they may be, though obide by the same styles of protocol and etiquette? Not necessarily, no. Such dictates of what is the norm vary, and have always varied between monarchy and republic. They are generally observed and esteemed by the other in view of what has been culturally established. Whether it be a thousand years or a few hundred.

These are but a few of the differences which for which they are known and for which make them, respectively, diverse.

I still find the moment quite endearing, regardless of what I think should have been the appropriate response of Mrs Obama.
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