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  #121  
Old 04-05-2009, 04:05 PM
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In my opinion the whole "breaking protocol" issue i being blown way out proportion. There is one person who can break the rulesand that is HM, she is the monarch and if she decides to break with the normal then that is entirely up to her. The First Lady was, from watching the footage and from comments from the President etc, very nervous about meeting the Queen. At the very worst we could say that Mrs O "forgot herself" for a moment and reacted in what appears to be a very normal manner for her. That may have been against "the rules" but HM did not seem to care one bit. If HM had cared, even if she had felt obliged to return the gesture because she was being observed then palace officals didn't have to report that inf act HM was not at all bothered or offended. IF the Queen was upset don't you think we would have heard about it by ow from those "close sources" and "senior officials" we hear so much about?
Simply put, yes technically there was a "breach of protocol" and it members of teh public shouldn't take it as a sign that its ok to go about hugging HM but mistakes are made, HM didn't seem to care at all. So whats the deal? I think this is a typical case of people being offended on 'behalf of the royals' when in fact the royals themselves aren't bothered.
Wow that was a long post. :-)
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  #122  
Old 04-05-2009, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Protocol is protocol, don't touch, full stop. The whole handling only shows HM's class and larger-than-life personality.
Precisely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy1716 View Post
At the very worst we could say that Mrs O "forgot herself"
You could say that, but MO is supposed to be representing her country and forgetting yourself is hardly acceptable. I am not offended on behalf of the royals, I am put out by the excuses being put forward to cover the breaking of a tradition that has held for centuries. The wife of a head of state 'forgot' to observe the traditions/protocol of another country, no excuses, plain and simple.
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  #123  
Old 04-05-2009, 05:25 PM
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Hi,

Do any of you remember when the rather large black lady threw her arms around The Queen?
It happened during a home tour in Virginia, I think, during one of HM's tours of the USA...

The Queen looked a little astonished for a moment and then smiled and then they all had tea or something!!

I think she's used to small cliches and startling events after nearly 60 years on the throne.

She's had Moaris brandishing spears at her and drunk some foul liquids and even had a nervous bishop curtsey to her...
Through it all, she didn't scream, vomit or laugh out loud. More than I could do....

Long may she reign!!

Larry
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  #124  
Old 04-05-2009, 05:33 PM
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I thought it was great that Mrs. Obama and the Queen "hugged" each other (if you can call what they did a hug). I thought it was a nice gesture for both women and it sent the message of the Queen being a more open woman.
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  #125  
Old 04-05-2009, 05:37 PM
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(the last two posts)

I think it was HM who initiated the touching with Mrs O, but even if there is still some doubt about that, I suppose it's possible that HM is less concerned when it is a woman who touches her rather than a man.

As for Paul Keating, I have always detested the man so I was delighted with the "Lizard of Oz" expression and still use it to refer to him.
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  #126  
Old 04-05-2009, 06:01 PM
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With regard to this whole affaire, I wholeheartedly I agree that Mrs Obama, no matter how nervous or friendly she is she should not have touched the Queen.
A few years back the Queen was in NYC and visited a group home. One of the volunteers gave her a bear hug. HM turned and smiled for the cameras. This is class and dignity. She is a professional and would have never moved away or showed surprise. She behaved again the same way no matter how she felt.
The other scene that surprised me was when the royal couple and the Obamas were to pose for a picture. The Duke stood next to the Queen and gestured to Mrs Obama to stand on his left. She walked in front of him and stood next to the Queen while the Duke stood at the end. Was that a breach?, was it her thinking she wanted to take a photo next to her new BFF? was it jitters? Who knows?? One thing is certain it was wrong.
As to the bulletin the BP released about this am I wrong to believe that it is the PM and 10 Downing Street that speak on behalf of the Queen when it comes to such matters??
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  #127  
Old 04-05-2009, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
As to the bulletin the BP released about this am I wrong to believe that it is the PM and 10 Downing Street that speak on behalf of the Queen when it comes to such matters??
Why would Downing Street need to get involved? It's not as if who can/cannot touch The Queen is a matter for the government. BP doesn't have a whole lot of power anymore, but surely it does still have the ultimate say on matters of protocol.
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  #128  
Old 04-05-2009, 06:18 PM
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IMO this huge discussion about Mrs. Obama touching QEII is a storm in teacup.
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  #129  
Old 04-05-2009, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
With regard to this whole affaire, I wholeheartedly I agree that Mrs Obama, no matter how nervous or friendly she is she should not have touched the Queen.
A few years back the Queen was in NYC and visited a group home. One of the volunteers gave her a bear hug. HM turned and smiled for the cameras. This is class and dignity. She is a professional and would have never moved away or showed surprise. She behaved again the same way no matter how she felt.
The other scene that surprised me was when the royal couple and the Obamas were to pose for a picture. The Duke stood next to the Queen and gestured to Mrs Obama to stand on his left. She walked in front of him and stood next to the Queen while the Duke stood at the end. Was that a breach?, was it her thinking she wanted to take a photo next to her new BFF? was it jitters? Who knows?? One thing is certain it was wrong.
As to the bulletin the BP released about this am I wrong to believe that it is the PM and 10 Downing Street that speak on behalf of the Queen when it comes to such matters??
I agree. Rules were created to keep people safe and secure.
But then again, what do I know? I'm such a radical: I actually come to a full stop at stop signs and not cruise right through them like so many other drivers I see. . .
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  #130  
Old 04-05-2009, 09:34 PM
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Buckingham Palace Address the Hug Controversy

This whole pointless controversy is tragically entertaining. Perhaps someone forgot to remind the Queen she forgot her 'own' protocol when she initiated a hug for the first time in anyone's memory.

Michelle Obama Hugs Queen Elizabeth, Stirs Controversy (PHOTO, POLL, VIDEO) - HP

Quote:
No-one - including the ladies-in-waiting standing nearby - could believe their eyes. In 57 years, the Queen has never been seen to make that kind of gesture and it is certainly against all protocol to touch her.

'But she didn't seem to mind a bit and was smiling and joking throughout,' the eyewitness said.
Buckingham Palace weighs in on first lady's touching moment - CNN

Quote:
First lady Michelle Obama did not breach protocol by touching Queen Elizabeth II at a reception for world leaders attending the G-20 summit, Buckingham Palace told CNN Thursday.
If any 'excuses' is being made, its certainly not coming from the Obama camp, rather the Queen herself, or her spokesperson for that matter.
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  #131  
Old 04-06-2009, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamyah View Post
Perhaps someone forgot to remind the Queen she forgot her 'own' protocol when she initiated a hug for the first time in anyone's memory.
Who touched who first is up to the individual to decide, depending on which news programme or paper you read. From your own link, it is clear to me that HM was trying to move MO into the room a little more, MO then put her arm fully around HM, whilst HM removed her arm and herself from the situation. As described by an American journalist, the 'huggy type person never considers the victims feelings'. Most people on the receiving end, smile, joke and helppppp.

I must have blinked and missed a mutual 'hug'.
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  #132  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:18 PM
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I must have blinked and missed a mutual 'hug'.
It got so steamy it had to be cut out. The missing footage will show up on YouTube soon.
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  #133  
Old 04-06-2009, 01:35 PM
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It is such nonsense. The First Lady put her arm around the queen. So what. The archaic rules that of not touching this "holy person" is ridiculous. The Queen is just another person. Nothing more or less. She didn't grab her in an embrace. And the queen touched the First Lady. Oh my. Those who need to groan about this are devoid of actual activity, so this looked big. It was a unremarkable moment and the two people who were involved are not any the worse for wear
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  #134  
Old 04-06-2009, 01:46 PM
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It got so steamy it had to be cut out. The missing footage will show up on YouTube soon.
Really? Tell me when, cuz Enquiring Minds wanna know. . . . .


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  #135  
Old 04-06-2009, 03:19 PM
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Don't get me wrong I like the Obamas, especially for representing a different America than their predecessor. Altough they come across (and probably are to a degree) as quite genuine and warm, they know exactly how to create positive headlines, even better when the world is watching and the most famous Head of State is involved. Therefore, regarding the "touchy" topic, I can't help thinking Honi soit qui mal y pense Obama came to London to rule the G20, it was his opportunity to shine (not too much of a task to outshine the rather dull host couple) and he and Michelle took on the task in an ultra-professional manner, as usual.

Some people say that Obama should have won the Best Actor Award at this years' Oscars; something I had to think of when watching the video where Berlusconi made the Queen do a gaffe. At the very beginning it shows how Obama can switch his smile on and off and on again. Trained to perfection. But still, it stands out and when the day comes and he loses his job, he can make a lot of money posing for toothpaste

'We are NOT offended': Palace tries to smooth over Queen's 'Why does that man have to shout' jibe at Berlusconi | Mail Online
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  #136  
Old 04-06-2009, 03:35 PM
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It's probably better we focus on the royal angle(s) rather than Obama himself.
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  #137  
Old 04-06-2009, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
The Queen is just another person.
Possibly to some Americans, however as has already been said, it is better if visitors manage to follow the rules of the country they are visiting, rules the majority of other people manage to remember.

They are now long gone, lets just hope if they do meet again, MO is fully versed in what is and is not acceptable.
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  #138  
Old 04-06-2009, 06:41 PM
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When Jacqueline Kennedy visited Buckingham Palace as First Lady in 1961 there were NO visible faux pas. Everyone was as beautiful and formal and correct as could be.

There is a memorable photo of Jackie looking stunning in an ice blue sleeveless satin gown and the Queen in a full ballgown...the Duke of Edinburgh and President Kennedy are smiling into the cameras but Mrs Kennedy and the Queen looked stiff and uncomfortable.

Two different Jackie biographers wrote that when she returned to Washington she had a field day making fun of the Queen's "frumpy"clothing...she even made up a skit for her pals mimicking her voice(Jackie was a cruel and on-target mimic) She implied that the Queen had seemed uncomfortable around her and some eyewitnesses to the meeting concurred that Mrs Kennedy's worldly sophistication had not gone over well with Elizabeth II's more down to earth personality.(Jackie and the Duke of Edinburgh got on famously...he is one of the few heads of State she met with privately after JFK's funeral)

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I would MUCH rather have this type of meeting...two warm and down to earth women very obviously hitting it off even if one of them made a slight protocal breach...what's the real harm?
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  #139  
Old 04-06-2009, 06:54 PM
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Now that is interesting... although one thing I would say is that when the Kennedy's came to Buck House, the Queen looked fabulous in blue net (I'm sure there is a technical name for it!) but perhaps to Jackie O's eyes, it was frumpy... Of course it could all be rubbish. I rather like the idea of Jackie O impersonating the Queen though after all, why can't icons take the mickey out of each other - makes a change from us lot doing it!!!
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  #140  
Old 04-06-2009, 07:14 PM
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he is one of the few heads of State she met with privately after JFK's funeral)
He isn't a Head of State. He's a representative.
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