The Queen, the Obamas and the G20 Summit: April 2, 2009

[Russophile]

Appalled? Come on.

I was appalled and I"m an American. When in Rome you know. . . .

 

[rmay286]

I don't think HMs position has changed just because she met a few more world leaders this week, as for who is the 'real' royalty, HM of course.

However popular Mr Obama is at the moment, as with any politician that can change in a very short time!

Of course, but I found it funny how even on the news I just watched tonight, they were describing Michelle Obama as royalty. People's feelings towards the Queen are completely different than towards the U.S. President: there is a great deal of respect for the Queen, but the Obamas receive the most adoration (at the moment). I just find it ironic how at one time, the United States was a British colony whose subjects had to pay homage to the British monarch: and today, the British roll out the red carpet for the American president. The excitement over his visit is partly a result of Obama's unprecedented popularity, but it also illustrates how the roles of the two countries have changed since the decline of the British empire and the rise of the U.S. as a global superpower.

I do agree that public feelings about the Queen are much more enduring than feelings about Obama (or any elected leader).

 

[Sister Morphine]

I was appalled and I"m an American. When in Rome you know. . . .

I'm an American and I didn't care. I didn't see anything disrespectful in the way Michelle acted. While I can accept that there are different definitions to the word "disrespect" depending on who you ask about any given situation, I would think if Michelle was truly disrespectful in the definition we can all agree on, we'd know about it.

BTW, all the ridiculous right-wing talking heads over here are all twitterpated about Michelle touching the Queen. As though she tackled her or something.

Is that really something to focus on with all the turmoil in the global economy? I don't know what upsets me more; that someone would care enough to angry or that the press would care enough to report on it. Mind you I'm talking about our press here, I don't know what the press in England is saying.

 

[Skydragon]

and today, the British roll out the red carpet for the American president.

We do that for many visiting heads of state, not just the Obama's.

 

[Madame Royale]

The fact HM the King of Saudi Arabia was present was reason enough to roll out the red carpet. But as Skydragon has noted, every Head of State recieves/recieved such hoospitality and not just the Obama's.

 

[carlota]

I'm an American and I didn't care. I didn't see anything disrespectful in the way Michelle acted. While I can accept that there are different definitions to the word "disrespect" depending on who you ask about any given situation, I would think if Michelle was truly disrespectful in the definition we can all agree on, we'd know about it.

it's not about respect anymore. respect is what two ordinary people have in between them. it's more than that. they are heads of state here. there wasn't anything disrespectful about michelle's behaviour. it was just inappropriate, she should have familiarized herself with the type of behaviour that is expected of a first lady, specially when going abroad. it's perfectly fine if michelle hugs a "fan" in the presidential campaign, but it's definitely not fine to hug her majesty the queen of the commonwealth. it's all about perspective.

 

[sthreats]

this is taken from the daily mail online article

A Buckingham Palace spokeswoman insisted last night that the Queen wasn't remotely offended by the contact between herself and Mrs Obama, however.
'It was a mutual and spontaneous display of warm and affectionate appreciation between the Queen and Michelle Obama,' they said.
'They had already met more formally but the reception was very much an informal occasion and it was an appropriate gesture.'



Did Michelle Obama break royal protocol by giving the Queen a hug? | Mail Online

WHY DOES THE QUEEN EVEN HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS FOOLISHNESS? Last week it was Simon Cowel's "story". The Queen has got to be saying to herself 'surely people have more important things to deal with'. When I got home from work tonight my Mom called to tell the Queen/Michelle hug is all anybody is talking about -news,talkshows, beauty shop. And as S.Morphine said what one's thinks seems to fall along political lines. Mom said ones news show played the tape several times to see who touched whom first. Seems that if the Queen did the first touch then Michelle did not commit a mortal sin. Crazy world.

 

[Skydragon]

The Queen bent the rules of royal protocol to perfection to leave the coolest couple on the planet even more star-struck, says Clive Aslet.

NOW THAT'S A FIRST LADY - Telegraph

 

[QUEENECE29]

The Queen Hosts A Reception For Delegates Of The London Summit
Getty Images - Unsupported browser detected#

 

[Lumutqueen]

Love the Argentine Presidents outfit, very stylish.
I really love occasions like this.
x

 

[Zonk]

it's not about respect anymore. respect is what two ordinary people have in between them. it's more than that. they are heads of state here. there wasn't anything disrespectful about michelle's behaviour. it was just inappropriate, she should have familiarized herself with the type of behaviour that is expected of a first lady, specially when going abroad. it's perfectly fine if michelle hugs a "fan" in the presidential campaign, but it's definitely not fine to hug her majesty the queen of the commonwealth. it's all about perspective.

I am a little confused. It appears that it was a mutual display of affection from both HM and Mrs. Obama. If the Queen doesn't appear to have a problem with the inappropriate behavior..what it is the issue?

 

[leonardinha]

I don't know if this was posted before, anyway:

The Queen annoyed by Italian PM.

 

[MARG]

The Queen bent the rules of royal protocol to perfection to leave the coolest couple on the planet even more star-struck, says Clive Aslet.

NOW THAT'S A FIRST LADY - Telegraph

Thank you so much Skydragon. Here I was wending my evermore weary way through a virtual morass of the ponderous, pompous, pontificating of all those venting their spleen. All suitably outraged, shocked, apalled, etc. ad nauseum, at the disrespectful, inappropriate and downright offensive, manhandling of the Queen by the American President's wife, Michelle Obama.

The Queen bent the rules . . . . . . . ! She followed the dictates of her heart, her eigthy odd years of experience, and pointed the way, leaving all those vaunted guardians of diplomatic and royal protocol, outrageous in their bellicosity and acidly venting their collective spleen, up the proverbial creek in the face of Her ineffable grace!

The fact that the Obama's presented her with an iPod indicates that they are more aware of where the Queen is "at" than all the little grey men (and women) both in and out of the Palace!

ps. Didn't I see the American President with his hand on Camilla's arm . . . . . both deeply engrossed in conversation?

I think we can safely call the United Kingdom and United States of America's respective 'Charm Offensive' a draw!

. . . . . . The Queen seemed equally smitten in conversation with Hillary Clinton. I don't blame her for liking powerful women, she probably relates to them.

This is probably a rare treat to enjoy the opportunity to spend time in the company of such women.

HM is an intelligent and a keen listener, I'm sure she is very well aware that PM Brown will be working with Sec. of State Clinton and she's checking her out.

Wonderful, great, terrific, fun, enjoying your job and scoping the field for information useful to her Prime Minister.

 

[muriel]

This is probably a rare treat to enjoy the opportunity to spend time in the company of such women.
Wonderful, great, terrific, fun, enjoying your job and scoping the field for information useful to her Prime Minister.

... though in this case, HM probably has met Hillary on a number of occassions previously, when H was first lady. HM was probably trying to assess how Hillary has changed over the years.

 

[tommy1716]

Queen is not amused by Berlusconi gaffe - Telegraph

What is it? Berlusconi's shout rattles the Queen - World Politics, World - The Independent

BBC NEWS | UK | Queen is not amused by Berlusconi

 

[NotAPretender]

BTW, all the ridiculous right-wing talking heads over here are all twitterpated about Michelle touching the Queen. As though she tackled her or something.


Is that really something to focus on with all the turmoil in the global economy? I don't know what upsets me more; that someone would care enough to angry or that the press would care enough to report on it. Mind you I'm talking about our press here, I don't know what the press in England is saying.

I don't think I'd ever appreciated the height of the Obamas, nor the height of the Duke (who has always seemed "tall" to me) however, if the First Lady had in fact tackled HM, The Queen would have been absolutely flattened!

As to the Berlusconi "gaffe," I'm calling a big "pfffttt" on that. I watched and listened to the tape of the photo session, and there was much banter and laughter. Immediately after HM's comment, there was another round of laughter; the comment seemed to me in the spirit of the event, very much "we're all in this together." Overall, the introductory portions of this summit are coming across as "global means global, let's start by acting as friends and global family to solve this," and I believe that the Queen is setting that tone beautifully.

I've always admired HM and her Prince, The Duke, and I've never made any secret of that. Once again, she and her husband show everyone how it's done.

 

[Al_bina]

'We are not offended': Palace tries to smooth over Queen's 'Why does he have to shout' jibe at Berlusconi | Mail Online
Given all protocol breaches, I have to say that protocol is not all that important for some members of international community. It is actually refreshing to see most Presidents observing protocol rules and not trying to put Her Majesty into an awkward situation.

Well, if there's one thing about the G20 summit that's practically guaranteed, it's that the more the Queen embraces (literally and figuratively!) the Obamas, the higher her approval rating will be. ... [snipped]

The last thing Her Majesty might need is approval ratings ... As aptly noted by Aslet,

For there is comfort to be drawn from our own head of state in these uncertain times. Outside, railing against global economic meltdown, protesters may have caused chaos in the City of London. But inside Buckingham Palace the mood is steady. The Queen, after all, has known worse than this.
Like others of her generation, she has lived through world war, rationing, Suez, the oil crisis, the three-day week. She personifies the conviction that we'll pull through. She may even suggest how we do it. For the values that she represents are not those of the get-rich-quick merchants, the bonus boys, the exorbitantly over-rewarded Sir Fred Goodwins, the expenses-fiddling politicians or the incompetent regulators who arguably have landed us in this mess.[my bolding]

NOW THAT'S A FIRST LADY - Telegraph

 

[NotAPretender]

Wow! We got a new thread for just this! Thanks, TPTB!

 

[Madame Royale]

A Buckingham Palace spokeswoman insisted last night that the Queen wasn't remotely offended by the contact between herself and Mrs Obama, however.
'It was a mutual and spontaneous display of warm and affectionate appreciation between the Queen and Michelle Obama,' they said.
'They had already met more formally but the reception was very much an informal occasion and it was an appropriate gesture.'

When you like someone, you like someone! It was just so lovely to see, and being both woman, such an expression of warmth could not be considered, in my mind anyhow, as anything other than sweet natured.

Never have we seen the Queen express so publically a gesture as this toward a foreign entourage that is not of the blood royal. Given their respective height and age differences, It just made the moment all the more adorable really.

I for one think Michelle Obama to be a beautifully natured woman. She has a very kind face and surely only that can result from having a kind heart.

The next time they should meet (if they meet) here's hoping for the cheeck embrace......j/k.

 

[Turkish Delight]

Barack Obama expresses affection for Queen before Palace meeting

 

[rmay286]

'We are not offended': Palace tries to smooth over Queen's 'Why does he have to shout' jibe at Berlusconi | Mail Online
Given all protocol breaches, I have to say that protocol is not all that important for some members of international community. It is actually refreshing to see most Presidents observing protocol rules and not trying to put Her Majesty into an awkward situation.


The last thing Her Majesty might need is approval ratings ... As aptly noted by Aslet,
NOW THAT'S A FIRST LADY - Telegraph

That was an insightful article. I don't know how happy Obama was to be around the Queen as opposed to Gordon Brown, but it would make sense that meeting the Queen would be more meaningful to him (or anyone). Partly because of how long she's lived and partly because of the way she's lived her life, the Queen does have an ability to embody a kind of faithfulness and stability, in these turbulent times, that other public figures simply can't. It makes me wonder a little whether future monarchs...ie. Charles and someday William, but even their descendants...will be able to embody those values as well as the Queen does.

I guess I shouldn't have said "the Queen's approval ratings will go up with the Obama visit." Of course the continuity of the Queen's position doesn't really depend on "approval ratings," and that's what makes it so unique. I suppose what I meant was that because of Obama's status and popularity, anyone photographed with him tends to grow popular by association. On news sites, I certainly see people making comments such as, "Isn't it wonderful that our royals are getting along with Obama, and talking to the Obamas, and touching them!!"

Anyway. On the subject of the "protocol breach," I think it's rather refreshing to see that someone the Queen's age, who has been brought up on the importance of duty and protocol, can bend the rules every so often. I can't actually believe the "arms round each other" incident is making news headlines as much as it is. As for the Berlusconi incident, "Why does he have to shout?" sounds like it could have been a pretty innocuous question, especially since I have no idea why the man needed to shout when he was standing right behind Obama.

But oh, the gaffes! The protocol breaches! The press has to find something to write about, because the economy gets boring and so, apparently, does one big happy G20 family.

 

[Elise27]

I think all those people who are saying this was inappropriate etc need to calm down. Yes michelle perhaps should have been a little more reserved but its the obamas, they are used to being friendly and warm to people and when you are that sort of person its hard because its so second nature. Here is this nice 80yr old woman who is much shorter its ok for michelle to have had a lapse.
The queen very clearly didnt take offense at all. The buckingham palace response to this did amaze me "mutual display of affection and admiration", strong words from the palace. It is clear to me that the queen liked the obamas and the fact that she said after "now that we've met le'ts keep in touch, it would be nice", which i saw on an itn video, clearly shows that she liked michelle.
i understand why the press has made a big deal about this, remember its the queen she doesnt go around putting her arm around people.

Also with the berlusconi thing Im actually not sure what the queen said because its been said that she actually said "what is the point of doing a photograph, why?" and when i listen to it thats what its sounds like. What do others think?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

When I first heard about the big "faux pas" of Mrs Obama while getting dressed the other morning I held my breath...oh God!

Then I watched the evening news, saw the actual photos and read the British and American press.

WHY WHY WHY do some people thrive on controversy where none actually exists? You would have thought Michelle put Her Majesty into a headlock or gave her the infamous fist bump-my gosh!

Instead it was a spontaneous and simple gesture that the Queen HERSELF seemed to initiate.(putting her arm around the First Lady) Mrs Obama is one month older than the Queen's youngest child The Earl of Wessex. The Queen is known for being down to earth and basically kind underneath the regal exterior and probably sensed the younger woman's underlying anxiety(yes, even self-assured and intelligent folks like the Obamas might occasionally feel unsure of how to act in certain situations)

It's really much ado about nothing and if Buckingham Palace and the Royals are not offended I think we can all relax!

 

[Russophile]

I'm an American and I didn't care. I didn't see anything disrespectful in the way Michelle acted. While I can accept that there are different definitions to the word "disrespect" depending on who you ask about any given situation, I would think if Michelle was truly disrespectful in the definition we can all agree on, we'd know about it.

BTW, all the ridiculous right-wing talking heads over here are all twitterpated about Michelle touching the Queen. As though she tackled her or something.

Is that really something to focus on with all the turmoil in the global economy? I don't know what upsets me more; that someone would care enough to angry or that the press would care enough to report on it. Mind you I'm talking about our press here, I don't know what the press in England is saying.

I'm not talking about the right here, I'm talking about when in Rome you do as the Romans do.
Were I ever fortunate to meet HM, I bloody well would read up on the proper etiquette for when I was to be presented to her.
As it is, we're a lazy society and I include myself. For example, poor Warren had to correct me again over in HM's thread when I mislabled the coat of arms as the flag. My faux pas that I can make here on TRF but would be mortified were it in real life, especially if it were in front of HM.
It would be nice for the Head of our Nation to set an example by following protocol for the rest of us.

 

[sthreats]

talk of the town

Thanks for the new thread moderator. Lots of interesting and funny comments.
Like I said-THE QUEEN , MICHELLE, THE HUG, THE CONTROVERSY.
It's all anybody is talking about.

Glad the economy has recovered

 

[Elise27]

I'm not talking about the right here, I'm talking about when in Rome you do as the Romans do.
Were I ever fortunate to meet HM, I bloody well would read up on the proper etiquette for when I was to be presented to her.
As it is, we're a lazy society and I include myself. For example, poor Warren had to correct me again over in HM's thread when I mislabled the coat of arms as the flag. My faux pas that I can make here on TRF but would be mortified were it in real life, especially if it were in front of HM.
It would be nice for the Head of our Nation to set an example by following protocol for the rest of us.

Russophile: I am sure that michelle was briefed about this but she might have slipped considering that this sort of behavior is second nature to her. The obamas are friendly and warm people that is why they are so well liked. And again the one person that should/might have minded about this didnt and the palace issued what in my view was a strong statement rather than perhaps what would have been the usual "the queen did not take any offense to mrs obama's gesture" sort of statement. Yes when in rome do as the romans do but umm the world isnt looking at michelle obama any worse today for it in fact it has endeared her to many more people and the queen in the process because it made her look less stiff.
I mean the queen is an 83 yr old granny too and well its not wonder that michelle had slipped into her usual friendly and warm mode.
This reminds me of that time that canadian athlete took that picture with the queen and put his arm around her and the queen had such a friendly natural grin on her face, gosh someone treating her like a normal human being. im sure she's okay with that every once in a while. She seemed to like the obamas.
I also loved that they gave her that songbook.

 

[Ella Kay]

Does the precedent set by Mrs.Obama allow other First Ladies to provide hugs to Her Majesty?

Absolutely! Undoubtedly the new protocol rules are being chiseled into the requisite stone tablets at BP as I type this!

Seriously, though, I'd hardly call a brief touch on the back a "hug." Also, isn't The Queen the person who establishes protocol to begin with? From what I've heard and seen, she may have initiated the touch to begin with. And I'll tell you what: if The Queen touched me on the back, I wouldn't just stand there like a statue shivering over protocol. I'd reciprocate, just like Mrs. Obama did.

Really, this is all quite a little tempest in a teapot, isn't it?

 

[Russophile]

Yes, old fuddy duddy me is vastly over ruled. Gee, when I meet HM, I think I'll embrace her as well. After all, if Michelle Obama did it, then it MUST be okay! Protocal be damned! I'm warm, I'm funny, and gosh darn it! People like me!

 

[Elise27]

Absolutely! Undoubtedly the new protocol rules are being chiseled into the requisite stone tablets at BP as I type this!

Seriously, though, I'd hardly call a brief touch on the back a "hug." Also, isn't The Queen the person who establishes protocol to begin with? From what I've heard and seen, she may have initiated the touch to begin with. And I'll tell you what: if The Queen touched me on the back, I wouldn't just stand there like a statue shivering over protocol. I'd reciprocate, just like Mrs. Obama did.

Really, this is all quite a little tempest in a teapot, isn't it?

I think that its unlikely the queen initiated but there are conflicting reports, its possible that she did. obviously the queen doesnt want people to go around hugging her etc but goodness I just dont understand what the big deal is, look at the buckingham palace press release. I dont think ppl would use those familiarities with her bc she is not an inviting person in that way anyway. its silly to think that since michelle put her arm around her and it was ok that everyone is going to do that now, clearly even michelle is unlikely to ever touch the queen again if she goes back to england given all the talk about this. If the queen didnt have a problem with this, why do other people? it is very very obvious that she didnt, the queen is very capable of showing displeasure. she wouldnt have been rude to mrs obama but then again we wouldnt have gotten the press release saying "mutual display of affection and admiration".

 

[Skydragon]

Anyway. On the subject of the "protocol breach," I think it's rather refreshing to see that someone the Queen's age, who has been brought up on the importance of duty and protocol, can bend the rules every so often. I can't actually believe the "arms round each other" incident is making news headlines as much as it is.

As has already been said (by Al_bina I think), if HM had pulled away with a horrified look on her face or had not allowed her minions to release a 'HM didn't mind' statement, you can imagine those headlines!

Yes, old fuddy duddy me is vastly over ruled. Gee, when I meet HM, I think I'll embrace her as well. After all, if Michelle Obama did it, then it MUST be okay! Protocol be damned! I'm warm, I'm funny, and gosh darn it! People like me!

Indeed but you would also ensure you know and follow the protocol of the country you are visiting. The last person to handle HM was chastised and ridiculed in the press, why is this any different?