The Queen and Her Prime Ministers

[grecka]

The fact is he should have kept to his own business. As an American, and a liberal one, I must admit, I personally regard Ms. Thatcher as the best British prime minister aside from Churchill and Pitt. Remember it was she who really attempted, quite successfully to resurrect something of Britain's former imperial glory. She made the world really respect Britain again and built ties to Europe more than any other pm.

[A.C.C.]

Originally Posted by grecka

The fact is he should have kept to his own business. As an American, and a liberal one, I must admit, I personally regard Ms. Thatcher as the best British prime minister aside from Churchill and Pitt. Remember it was she who really attempted, quite successfully to resurrect something of Britain's former imperial glory. She made the world really respect Britain again and built ties to Europe more than any other pm.

I understand where you are coming from with your post, but you must understand that even though Thatcher tried to "resurrect something of Britain's past imperial glory," she was not very well liked within the Commonwealth which is composed of the countries on which Britain's past Imperial power was formed. Thatcher even once tried to keep The Queen from attending a commonwealth conference due to "security reasons." The conference was in an African country where The Queen is highly regarded, and The Queen ingnored Mrs. Thatcher and went as She should have because She is head of the commonwealth. In an interview Mrs. Thatcher did on The Queen, she said she was very relieved The Queen went because "She knew everbody."

P.S. no one can do a curtsey like Baroness Thatcher can!

[Julian]

The documentary I watched made about the Queen and her PM's at the time of the Golden Jubilee (and just rebroadcast for about the third time where I live) states that the Queen couldn't "make her out", i.e., couldn't understand her mindset. "Does she always sit on the edge of her chair like that?" the Queen is also said to have remarked about the Iron Lady.

Originally Posted by A.C.C.

P.S. no one can do a curtsey like Baroness Thatcher can!

Isn't that fortunate, she would put the char ladies at BP out of work if everyone was to imitate that floor-wiping bum curtsey of hers.

[gogm]

It is my understanding that the Queen expressed concern over Ms. Thatcher's views and the Commonwealth. This may have helped to focus some thought on Ms. Thatcher's racial policies and helped to turn her out.

[Julian]

I think you are correct about the tensions regarding the Commonwealth. However it also extended to other things that happened where the Queen must have felt she wasn't given the formal courtesy of notification of events. For instance, during the invasion of Grenada when Mrs. T. was notified of the American intentions to invade by the Reagan White House but told the Queen nothing of it until it was well underway. As the Queen is the head of state with a governor general on that island, she was probably taken aback to read about it the next day in The Times along with the rest of the country.

[Valuk]

"The weekly meetings between the Queen and Mrs Thacher - both of the
same age - are dreaded by at least one of them," wrote Anthony Sampson, who had good Palace contacts, in a book published in 1982.

Ben Pimlott: The Queen: A biography of Elizabeth II, page 460.

[A.C.C.]

Originally Posted by Julian

I think you are correct about the tensions regarding the Commonwealth. However it also extended to other things that happened where the Queen must have felt she wasn't given the formal courtesy of notification of events. For instance, during the invasion of Grenada when Mrs. T. was notified of the American intentions to invade by the Reagan White House but told the Queen nothing of it until it was well underway. As the Queen is the head of state with a governor general on that island, she was probably taken aback to read about it the next day in The Times along with the rest of the country.

I guess The Queen, being Queen of Grenada has the right to know such things.

[Julian]

I wonder if the Queen didn't have the last laugh since there's a good chance she heard ahead of Lady Thatcher that her son Sir Mark had been arrested in South Africa for allegedly funding a coup plot in another African country (Equatorial Guinea). Lady T. was traveling in the States at the time of the arrest, her daughter Carol said she didn't know if her mother was even aware of what was going on. Now in the past day, Lady T. has had to post a huge amount of bail for her son in Cape Town. The wife (she's Texan) has left S.A. for the States in a big hurry. My impression of what interests the Queen is that this is the type of bizarre story she follows rather closely, especially given the cast of characters. Back when Mrs. T. was in power, Mark was giving her similar headaches, once getting lost in the Morroccan desert while race car driving.

[BeatrixFan]

After a fascinating chat about the Queen and her PMs, I thought a topic was in order. Here are the PMs of the Her Majesty's reign and what they appeared to believe about the monarchy;

Sir Winston Churchill KG, OM, CH, TD, FRS, PC
Prime Minister from 1940-1945 and 1951-1955
Conservative and Unionist

A staunch supporter of the monarchy, Sir Winston had been devout in his support of King Edward VIII and Mrs Simpson. His allegiance to the monarchy was unwaivering and he was said to be devastated by the death of King George VI. His relationship with the Queen was very strong and he once complained to his private doctor that he was facing sleepless nights whilst she was away on tour. The Queen thought so much of him that not only did she attend his funeral in 1965, but she gave a rare TV interview as a tribute to him.

Sir Anthony Eden KG, MC, PC, 1st Earl of Avon
Prime Minister from 1955-1957
Conservative and Unionist

Anthony Eden was appointed Prime Minister by the Queen in 1955 and immediately called a General Election. His premiership was brief but his relationship with the Queen was apparantly good and he was a monarchist. He died in 1977, the year of Her Majesty's Silver Jubilee. The Queen was apparantly unhappy with the way he handled Suez but then again, who wasn't?

Harold Macmillan OM, PC, 1st Earl of Stockton
Prime Minister from 1957-1963
Conservative and Unionist

Macmillan was an old Etonian and in an interview given before his death, said that he was a supporter of the Queen and her role. The Profumo Affair did him no favours but it was eventually a mess-up by doctors that led to his resignation. They told him he had fatal cancer and would be dead within a few months. He actually lived until 1986. His resignation put the Queen in a terrible predicament as she had to choose his successor. She took Macmillan's advice and appointed Sir Alec Douglas-Home much to the fury of Rab Butler. It had put the Queen in such a bad position that the Conservatives changed their leadership election process shortly after.

Sir Alec Douglas-Home KT, PC, Baron Home of the Hirsel
Prime Minister from 1963-1964
Conservative and Unionist

He was the last PM to be chosen by the British monarch directly and as a result was grateful to the Queen. As he stayed in office for just 1 year, it's unknown what his views on the monarchy were.

Sir Harold Wilson KG, OBE, FRS, PC, Baron Wilson of Rievaulx
Prime Minister from 1964-1970, 1974-1976
Labour

His relationship with the Queen was apparantly good although Barbara Castle often said that she believed the Queen was worried about the position of the monarchy under socialists. Wilson was quite supportive of the Queen and in an interview called her "a great treasure of the British people". He was constantly paranoid and believed he was going to be toppled in a coup by the establishment. There were rumours that the Queen Mother had been approached to convince the Queen to take absolute power and that Lord Mountbatten was preparing an army force to seize Downing Street and that he had the Queen's support. The Queen is said to have been deeply unhappy with his abuse of the Honours System after the "Lavender List" appeared but no evidence exists that plans for such a coup existed.

Sir Edward Heath, KG MBE
Prime Minister from 1970-1974
Conservative and Unionist

His predecessor was also his successor. He admired the Queen greatly and came to rely on their weekly meetings. Eventually he was brought down by a group who wanted Margaret Thatcher to be his replacement. She was successful in replacing Heath and he never forgave her. His relationship with the Queen was said to be "healthy".

Sir James Callaghan KG, PC, Baron Callaghan of Cardiff
Prime Minister from 1976-1979
Labour

Not Prime Minister for very long but during his premiership, he had the role of organising the Queen's Silver Jubilee. He was apparantly thrilled by the honour and even suggested that the gift from the Cabinet be a portrait of himself. He was a monarchist.

Lady Margaret Thatcher LG, OM, FRS, PC, Baroness Thatcher of Kevesten
Prime Minister from 1979-1990
Conservative and Unionist

The Queen's longest serving and first (and to date) only female Prime Minister. Being the same age as the Queen, there was an expectation that the two women wouldn't get on but apparantly their relationship grew closer as the years went by. Lady Thatcher is said to have upset the Queen a few times, most notably over the Fagin break-in and Thatcher's blocking of the Queen's attendance at a Commonwealth meeting. Despite this, Margaret Thatcher has written glowing tributes to the Queen in her books and is a staunch monarchist. The Queen attended Margaret Thatcher's 80th birthday party in 2006, as did the Duke of Edinburgh and Princess Alexandra of Kent.

Sir John Major, KG, CH, PC
Prime Minister from 1990-1997
Conservative and Unionist

He inherited a slightly poisoned chalice but his relationship with the Queen didn't seem to suffer. She recently made him a Knight of the Garter. Though the Queen apparantly knew of his affair with Edwina Currie, she always remained amiable to him and his premiership seemed to be monarchy-friendly.

Tony Blair
Prime Minister from 1997-2007
Labour

He'll leave soon.

--------------------

So, what do you make of the Queen's relationship with her Prime Ministers? Who has the Queen got on well with and how should a Prime Minister treat the monarch? Your views please on the Queen and her Prime Ministers.

[Elspeth]

Erm - don't you need a slightly more informative section on Mr Blair, especially given the way he's perceived as having been the biggest threat to the monarchy of any of her PMs?

Useful list otherwise, and a good basis for a thread.

[wbenson]

I've always read that the Queen got on quite well with Harold Wilson. I recall reading that their 30 minute audiences typically lasted an hour or more.

[Royal Fan]

Tony Blair A Threat?! How so??? and how do you think Gordon Brown will get on with her seems a Strong Monarchist, I Was at first Cameron Supporter (Although ive Always liked Blair)

[Elspeth]

Tony Blair has done quite a lot of things over the years to undercut the contribution of the monarch to the government, and (if the broadsheet newspapers are to be believed) the first that Buckingham Palace heard about some of them was from the media because they were done without consultation.

[CasiraghiTrio]

I'm sure of equal fascination is how she as Princess Elizabeth got on with the PMs who were in office during her father's reign. While her contact with them must have been rather shallow and formal, perhaps there are some interesting things there. For example, I wonder how she felt about Attlee (sp?). Apparently, her father did not like him at all (not surprising, as George VI was supposed to have been rather Conservative) but it is interesting to me that Attlee was surprisingly awed by the monarchy. BeatrixFan pointed out in another thread that Labour PMs have not always been as hostile as one might expect, and Attlee seems to fit in that compartment, no?
I remember recently (?) when the Queen unveiled a statue of Churchill, she was standing in front of it and looked rather emotional. It must have been a powerful moment for her. Whatever one's feelings about the man, "the Churchill years" were a dramatic time of her life.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Tony Blair has done quite a lot of things over the years to undercut the contribution of the monarch to the government, and (if the broadsheet newspapers are to be believed) the first that Buckingham Palace heard about some of them was from the media because they were done without consultation.

That's very sad. I might be empathetic of a PM who doesn't necessarily fawn over the Queen, but to actively undercut her..... That is very unfortunate.
I think in Britain you guys have a very good choice with Cameron and Brown. They are very different, obviously, but I like them both, to be honest. I'm undecided about some things re: Cameron but that's not the topic of the thread, so suffice it to say, though undecided, I am still impressed by both of them for various reasons. I think in a way you can't go wrong with these two.

[BeatrixFan]

Gordon Brown is a steaming great republican. He'll probably sideline the Queen as much as he can - basically, it's anyone who gets in the way with him.

[Royal Fan]

Can The Monarchy them survive Brown with their Dignity Intact? I Was sure he was a Monarchist

[BeatrixFan]

It'll be a wonder if they survive at all. Brown is likely to surround himself with fellow republicans. Then again, I give Brown 6 months at the helm at the most. He's not popular at all.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

It'll be a wonder if they survive at all. Brown is likely to surround himself with fellow republicans. Then again, I give Brown 6 months at the helm at the most. He's not popular at all.

I couldn't agree more. Brown stands for everything that Blair did including backing his decision to go to Iraq. Blair survived that long because he was excellent in presenting himself and doing speeches. Brown is lacking that charisma and is just boring - and a bit scruffy so women don't like him. My bet is that the next elected PM being invited by the Queen is David Cameron. He stands for a change as Labour was in power for too long, and, as Blair, he can present himself very well. Not as professional yet as Blair of course, but his time will come.

Don't want to sound too political here - it's just an opinion as I won't be entitled to vote anyway

BTW - interesting thread!

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

My bet is that the next elected PM being invited by the Queen is David Cameron. He stands for a change as Labour was in power for too long, and, as Blair, he can present himself very well. Not as professional yet as Blair of course, but his time will come.

I think Cameron would be a good PM too, and I think the Queen is probably hoping he will be the one, although like Avalon said, it seems like Prince Charles (if the press reports are true) likes Brown. But it has been rare when Monarch and Heir Apparent are agreeing. Look at George V and his Prince of Wales, and Queen Victoria and her Prince of Wales, and of course George III and his Prince of Wales/Regent had issues with each other as well. I think it's the nature of the beast, to always have tension between sovereign and heir, the Old and the New.