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  #161  
Old 12-23-2008, 11:50 PM
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Actually, the monarchy is egalitarian in that a monarch can be a perfectly average person and still be a good monarch.

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  #162  
Old 12-23-2008, 11:54 PM
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Perhaps people don't know much about the monarchy because successive governments have downplayed the monarchy and then downplayed it some more for political reasons. It used to be that the Queen was on all our stamps and all our currency and people used to actually sing God Save the Queen at political events rather than just listen to someone play it in the background. The education system reflects the political mind.

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Why would we need to know about the Queen in elementary or middle school? She does nothing in Canada, there's nothing to suggest that she is head of state. Perhaps in Britain they know because she actually does something there and the role of the monarch is etched onto them in history class. Her irrelevancy to Canada is one of my reasons I feel we should have a republican model.
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  #163  
Old 12-24-2008, 12:41 AM
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Perhaps people don't know much about the monarchy because successive governments have downplayed the monarchy and then downplayed it some more for political reasons. It used to be that the Queen was on all our stamps and all our currency and people used to actually sing God Save the Queen at political events rather than just listen to someone play it in the background. The education system reflects the political mind.
We have absolutely no reason to sing God Save the Queen or have immigrants swear an oath to the British Queen to become citizens of Canada. The Queen plays no role in our country yet continues to hold the highest office for some strange reason. Since nobody even knows about the Queen, her roles, what she actually symbolizes for Canada (old British imperialism - incompatible with our value of progress and innovation) it's best that we move on. I'm sure most people on this forum share much different views, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

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Actually, the monarchy is egalitarian in that a monarch can be a perfectly average person and still be a good monarch.
It is not egalitarian because the monarch(reigning, not consort) is something you must have had the good fortune of being born into, not something you acquire through merit or through popular vote. I am not saying this is necessarily bad, just that it does not comply with Canadian values.
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  #164  
Old 12-24-2008, 01:17 AM
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I am not saying this is necessarily bad, just that it does not comply with Canadian values.
Who defines "Canadian values" and when did they decide that the monarchy is not in compliance with these values? What are other "Canadian values" I should take note of?
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  #165  
Old 12-24-2008, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Shaiya View Post
Why would we need to know about the Queen in elementary or middle school? She does nothing in Canada, there's nothing to suggest that she is head of state. Perhaps in Britain they know because she actually does something there and the role of the monarch is etched onto them in history class. Her irrelevancy to Canada is one of my reasons I feel we should have a republican model.
Irresective of who the head of state is, it is a very good indicator of basic "general knowledge" when people get as far as grade 10 to find out who their head of state is! The form of government or the Queen is not going to help you with that!
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  #166  
Old 12-24-2008, 06:43 AM
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^You should do a survey of British teens and how well they know their government. =P Trust me, we Canadian kids are a smart and knowledgeable bunch.

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Who defines "Canadian values" and when did they decide that the monarchy is not in compliance with these values? What are other "Canadian values" I should take note of?
I believe I've already listed quite a few, feel free to go and read my earlier posts. I've already studied our country's values and norms pretty extensively, and my deduction is that they cannot ethically coexist with having a foreign monarch as our head of state. But as you seem to be a staunch monarchist, I can pretty much guess that you will have a different view of what Canadian values are in relation to the monarchy.
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  #167  
Old 12-24-2008, 07:35 AM
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^You should do a survey of British teens and how well they know their government. =P Trust me, we Canadian kids are a smart and knowledgeable bunch.
I am sure Canadaian kids are a smart and knowledgeable bunch, but I have absolutely no desire to "trust" anybody who did not know who th head of their state was till they reached grade 10!!!
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  #168  
Old 12-24-2008, 12:39 PM
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I believe I've already listed quite a few, feel free to go and read my earlier posts.
And one of them was multiculturalism. It is the antithesis of that to reject someone merely for being "foreign."

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Originally Posted by Shaiya View Post
But as you seem to be a staunch monarchist, I can pretty much guess that you will have a different view of what Canadian values are in relation to the monarchy.
I reject the premise that there is a definable set of "Canadian values," actually.
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  #169  
Old 12-24-2008, 03:51 PM
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I am sure Canadaian kids are a smart and knowledgeable bunch, but I have absolutely no desire to "trust" anybody who did not know who th head of their state was till they reached grade 10!!!
I was fourteen at the time. Any earlier and the biggest thing on my mind was what colour to dye my hair. It's because we have a governor general and prime minister who do most of the work around here that a head of state would normally do and most people think it's either one of them who are the head of state. Also, many people do not know exactly what the head of state means or is. That's one of my reasons I think we should abolish the monarchy in Canada. Because the Queen really serves no role here, she just lays claim to the highest position.

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And one of them was multiculturalism. It is the antithesis of that to reject someone merely for being "foreign."
Of course we accept foreigners into our country. I myself having an immigrant parents, feel very strongly about that. But being a Canadian citizen is important to being the head of state of Canada, no?
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  #170  
Old 12-24-2008, 04:47 PM
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But being a Canadian citizen is important to being the head of state of Canada, no?
I don't really think so, obviously. I think we're just fine having a head of state that is not a citizen of any country.
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  #171  
Old 12-24-2008, 05:22 PM
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You didn't know the Queen was Head of State

until you were a teenager. I am frankly astonished. Did you never question the fact that her picture is on money, stamps etc? I don't rememer not knowing.
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  #172  
Old 12-26-2008, 12:37 AM
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...and the pictures hanging in every school and federal and provincial buildings...

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until you were a teenager. I am frankly astonished. Did you never question the fact that her picture is on money, stamps etc? I don't rememer not knowing.
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  #173  
Old 12-26-2008, 02:46 AM
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...and the pictures hanging in every school and federal and provincial buildings...
Not in every school anymore by far.
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  #174  
Old 12-26-2008, 05:02 AM
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...and the pictures hanging in every school and federal and provincial buildings...
Uhh, they don't hang in any school I've been in(and I've been inside enough schools) and there are absolutely no pictures of her anywhere that I've seen. They were slowly removed from most places during the 70's. Plus, nobody ever mentions her, she plays no role in the lives of Canadians.

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until you were a teenager. I am frankly astonished. Did you never question the fact that her picture is on money, stamps etc? I don't rememer not knowing.
I still am a teenager, that was only last year. And I'm sad that this discussion has deteriorated into accusations of my supposed ignorance. Does it really matter when I found out? The facts still stand. And trust me, plenty of adults don't know that the queen is the head of state here in Canada.

"Four in ten (42%) believe that the Prime Minister is Canada’s head of state, and one in three (33%) think this title belongs to the Governor General. In truth, though, the Queen is Canada’s Head of State, and only one quarter (24%) of Canadians knew this."

-http://netnewsledger.com/index.php?o...1923&Itemid=75

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Actually, the monarchy is egalitarian in that a monarch can be a perfectly average person and still be a good monarch.
Sadly, I wish this was the case. According the The Act of Settlement of 1701, the head of state must not be a Roman Catholic and the must hold the position of the Head of the Church of England. This is contradictory of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms that state that nobody can be discriminated against on the basis of "race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age, or mental or physical disability" unfortunately though, the 'criteria' for our head of state is rather discriminatory on basis of religion.
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  #175  
Old 12-26-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Shaiya View Post
.

And I'm sad that this discussion has deteriorated into accusations of my supposed ignorance. Does it really matter when I found out? The facts still stand.
Little more to be said, from my perspective. You have said it all!!!!
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  #176  
Old 12-28-2008, 01:56 PM
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Here are two awesome, awesome videos about this issue. They are both really funny too:

A video on comedy show 22 Minutes with my favourite Canadian comedian/journalist, Rick Mercer (well, he's my favourite after Russell Peters of course!).


A commentary by a fellow Canadian on the recent Canadian political crisis and how the GG, the representative of the Queen in Canada was the one who decided the outcome, not the people, as would have been in a democratic republic.
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  #177  
Old 12-28-2008, 02:08 PM
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I've seen them around here.

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Not in every school anymore by far.
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  #178  
Old 12-28-2008, 03:40 PM
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A commentary by a fellow Canadian on the recent Canadian political crisis and how the GG, the representative of the Queen in Canada was the one who decided the outcome, not the people, as would have been in a democratic republic.
Except that it wouldn't be that way. If Canada became a republic (it's already democratic), it would likely be the exact same system with a ceremonial president (either directly elected or appointed by Parliament) doing the exact same thing. The recent "crisis" (it really wasn't a crisis, IMO) was an effect of the system of government, not the origin of the head of state.

Take issue with the way parliament works and the fact that we have a ceremonial head of state, regardless of how they are selected for this issue. There is not always a clear result with a parliamentary system. Sometimes nobody has a "mandate," despite some of the hyperbole of the last month. It might not be ideal, but it has nothing to do with the Queen. Plenty of republics have had the same issues.
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  #179  
Old 12-31-2008, 12:20 AM
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...and the pictures hanging in every school and federal and provincial buildings...
Not in schools and provincial buildings in Quebec (except perhaps the office of the lieutenant-governor)
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  #180  
Old 02-11-2009, 12:51 AM
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Here's another Rick Mercer video from his show - he explains who Canada's head-of-state is.
Videos - Rick Mercer Report - CBC Television

It's under Season 6 - Feb 3, 2009 and titled "Canada explained"
I loved this one!
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