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  #821  
Old 08-01-2017, 12:44 AM
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Read more: No prospect of republic while Queen reigns | The Advocate
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There is no prospect of an Australian republic in the next few years, and a republic in the medium term is unlikely.

While Labor is banging the republic drum and is no doubt honestly portraying its beliefs, in practical terms it is little more than a product differentiation attempt, or, quite possibly, a crack at driving a wedge between republican Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and the monarchist elements of the Coalition.

There would be next to no possibility of a republic referendum being passed with the Queen on the throne.

It is by no means certain a future King Charles would swing it for the republicans either, particularly with the younger royals extremely popular.

Then there is the well established Australian tradition of rejecting referendum questions.

Only eight of 44 have passed since 1901.

Throw into the mix:

Many Australians would take a “not broke, don’t fix” it approach to a republic vote;

the difficulties in agreeing on a model, and how a head of state would be chosen;

the enormous scare campaign potential for opponents; and
the fact most Australians are much more concerned about other issues, including jobs, the economy, health and education.

The weapons which could be used against a republican campaign are almost limitless.
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  #822  
Old 11-27-2017, 06:07 PM
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The other challenge for a Republic is that it is not just the Commonwealth of Australia (CofA) would need to become a republic but each state is a monarchy in its own right. The Australian States/Colonies were monarchies before the CofA or the seperate Australian realm were created and in law retained soveriegnty in all areas not specifically enumerated in the constitution as having been given to the CofA(and their individual crowns were not included) So each states will have to change their systems as well. Each could remain monarchies even if the CofA was not.

I do have another query though, how is the Queen monarch of an individual state? Victoria was Queen of say, Victoria, before Australia existed, and Elizabeth II might remain Queen of Queensland after her Australian realm is extinguished. How is Her Majesty soveriegn over each Australian state, through which title does she take on this role?

The reason I ask is to do with the current situation with Section 44 and allegiance to a foreign power. The Aus. High Court has ruled that allegiance to the Queen of the UK, NZ, or Can is allegiance to a foreign power. So if the Queen, is queen of the states because is she Queen of the UK, would that create an allegiance to a foriegn power, if a Australian in a state owed allegiance through their state to her Majesty because is she is Queen of the UK? (Hope the last bit made sense)
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  #823  
Old 11-27-2017, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony Clayden View Post
The other challenge for a Republic is that it is not just the Commonwealth of Australia (CofA) would need to become a republic but each state is a monarchy in its own right. The Australian States/Colonies were monarchies before the CofA or the seperate Australian realm were created and in law retained soveriegnty in all areas not specifically enumerated in the constitution as having been given to the CofA(and their individual crowns were not included) So each states will have to change their systems as well. Each could remain monarchies even if the CofA was not.

I do have another query though, how is the Queen monarch of an individual state? Victoria was Queen of say, Victoria, before Australia existed, and Elizabeth II might remain Queen of Queensland after her Australian realm is extinguished. How is Her Majesty soveriegn over each Australian state, through which title does she take on this role?

The reason I ask is to do with the current situation with Section 44 and allegiance to a foreign power. The Aus. High Court has ruled that allegiance to the Queen of the UK, NZ, or Can is allegiance to a foreign power. So if the Queen, is queen of the states because is she Queen of the UK, would that create an allegiance to a foriegn power, if a Australian in a state owed allegiance through their state to her Majesty because is she is Queen of the UK? (Hope the last bit made sense)
I believe that is a non-issue as the traditional legal doctrine in the Commonwealth is that the Queen of Australia and the Queen of the UK (or Canada, or New Zealand, etc.) are separate legal entitities. In fact, the Queen of Australia could declare war on the Queen of the UK and vice-versa. Their meaning in the law should not be confused with the physical person Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor.
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I believe that is a non-issue as the traditional legal doctrine in the Commonwealth is that the Queen of Australia and the Queen of the UK (or Canada, or New Zealand, etc.) are separate legal entitities. In fact, the Queen of Australia could declare war on the Queen of the UK and vice-versa. Their meaning in the law should not be confused with the physical person Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor.
Mbruno,

Thanks for your reply, I was aware that the monarch in each realm is a distinct legal entity. Australia is different to the other remaining realms as the rest are unitary states, with the exception of Canada where the provinces have Lt Governers, who are appointed by Can GG on advice from Can PM under the Can consitution. However Australian states have fully fledged Governers appointed directly by Her Majesty from advice of each State Premier with no reference to the Commonwealth government.

So my first quesiton is, how is QEII soveriegn over each state, if the monarchies of each state existed before and can exist after the Australian realm?
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony Clayden View Post
Mbruno,

Thanks for your reply, I was aware that the monarch in each realm is a distinct legal entity. Australia is different to the other remaining realms as the rest are unitary states, with the exception of Canada where the provinces have Lt Governers, who are appointed by Can GG on advice from Can PM under the Can consitution. However Australian states have fully fledged Governers appointed directly by Her Majesty from advice of each State Premier with no reference to the Commonwealth government.

So my first quesiton is, how is QEII soveriegn over each state, if the monarchies of each state existed before and can exist after the Australian realm?


I would think QEII is sovereign over each Australian state, independent of each other, in the same way that she is sovereign of each Realm, independent of each other. That is, the Queen of Queensland is a legal entity separate from the Queen of New South Wales, etc.

My understanding of the way things work in Australia is that each state is its own sovereign entity, and that the federal government only has power over what the states do not deal with.

This is different from Canada, where the provinces are not sovereign entities, but rather have some autonomy granted to them by the federal government. Thus, there is no Queen of British Columbia, but rather a Queen of Canada who has a representative in British Columbia.
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  #826  
Old 11-27-2017, 09:15 PM
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Australia becomes a republic but Queensland remains a monarchy (not an inconceivable outcome, given QLD and WA liking to be different from the rest of the country). A Qlder would then be owe allegiance to the President of Australia, over things the Commonwealth was sovereign for and the Crown of Qld represented by HM EII for things the state of Qld is sovereign over.

I'm not sure there such a thing as the Queen of Queensland, the states were never sepearate realms, they were self governing crown colonies (or dominions). The Crown of a colony\state was the person who was monarch of the UK. I presume the Australia Act might have addressed these issue but I'm not sure thought it a possible outcome when it ws drafted.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony Clayden View Post
Australia becomes a republic but Queensland remains a monarchy (not an inconceivable outcome, given QLD and WA liking to be different from the rest of the country). A Qlder would then be owe allegiance to the President of Australia, over things the Commonwealth was sovereign for and the Crown of Qld represented by HM EII for things the state of Qld is sovereign over.

I'm not sure there such a thing as the Queen of Queensland, the states were never sepearate realms, they were self governing crown colonies (or dominions). The Crown of a colony\state was the person who was monarch of the UK. I presume the Australia Act might have addressed these issue but I'm not sure thought it a possible outcome when it ws drafted.
There is indeed legally no such entity as the Queen of Queensland, or any other Australian state, today, but there is no stretch to imagine that being the case in the future, which is why the whole republican whine is slightly a moot point. If politicians had any foresight, they would let this thought sit with people themselves, and if the mood at some point has sufficiently changed across the nation as a whole, they can grab the issue and run with it, but as it stands today, it's a very risky project. The Australian federation would most likely survive a successful republican project, but several states, such as Queensland and Western Australia would most likely reject the republic, and their allegiance on a state level, would therefore fall to a monarch as a state, and towards a president on a federal level.
It might seem an odd construction, but it's similar to how states in various federations around the world operate, allegiance to different leaders on different levels. There are local monarchs in states in Malaysia and the UAE, while another leader heads the federation as a whole. Given both Queenslands and WAs usual direction of differing from the other states on such issues, and experiences from the previous referendum, it's not inconceivable that the Queen in effect would end up as head of more governments than she currently is, although both Queensland and WA would not necessarily become independent states and add to the total number of Commonwealth realms.
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