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  #741  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:55 PM
Tarlita's Avatar
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For Australia to vote to become a Republic is much more simplified I believe. Aussies are not fools. Therefore they will never Vote to become a Republic until a proper and decent, and agreeable Republican model can be put to the people for us to see if we agree with this style of future or not. Until a REPUBLICAN MODEL can be explained to us then we will be happy to remain as part of the Commonwealth. Simple as that I believe. Quite apart from the fact I can't think of one Politician I would like as our Head of State. And that is where they would draw our new Presidents from. Ex Politicians.
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  #742  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:30 PM
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Yes, politicians, or very dull, very worthy ex judges or bureaucrats. What an exciting prospect!

Agree with both Von Schlesian and Tarlita on all points.
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  #743  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:31 PM
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When was it ever suggested that we would leave the Commonwealth?


No one, to my knowledge, ever suggested such a thing. Becoming a republic means we would have to re-apply for membership but would we be denied - I doubt it.


The idea of a Head of State not born in Australia is fine with most republicans. What they can't stomach is the idea of a Head of State who lives permanently overseas and has only visited this country 16 times in the last 64 years - hardly a reason to continue to have her as the Head of State.


I voted 'no' in 1999 but would vote 'yes' in any new plebiscite or referendum.


I do think that we need a plebiscite with the simple question 'do you want Australia to be a republic?' If that is defeated then we republicans need to accept the decision and disappear from the debate but if that is successful then we need to move forward with debate and further plebiscites on the type of republic Australians want.


While we are in this limbo land of not knowing absolutely whether Australians actually want to be a republic (the 1999 vote included the vote on the type of republic and not just the actual issue itself - which should have come first but didn't) we will continue to see this debate raise its head every so often.


It should also be noted that it is possible for a state to vote separately to become a republic as each state is a separate monarchy - as evidenced by the fact that the Succession to the Crown Act had to pass each state before it was passed federally.
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  #744  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:38 PM
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It is good to have Von Schlesian's views on this subject.

Tarlita, I don't think anyone's suggesting that Australia would not remain in the Commonwealth if we became a republic. And our President would not necessarily have to be an ex-politician. Our current governor-general is not an ex-politician and neither was the previous one, and they are the sorts of people that I would like to see as our President, but I favour a model of republic that would involve as minimal a departure from our present system as possible. I just want an Australian citizen as head of state; I don't want a foreign head of state whose primary allegiance is to her own country and who shares her role as Queen of this country with 15 other realms. I definitely do not want the American model and I'd vote for the status quo if that were the model put up for approval, but I don't think that is likely to happen.
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  #745  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:38 PM
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I don't see how we can vote for a republic without knowing what that will be ! What a mess that will become.


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  #746  
Old 02-25-2016, 10:23 PM
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I'm not a republican but Britain downgrading trade with Commonwealth realms in 1973 in order to join the European Common Market came near to a betrayal in my book. I know it had nothing to do with the royal family, but this was a major blow to farmers in Australia and New Zealand who were left scratching for new markets for their wool, butter, meat and other raw produce. It was a kick in the guts that this country and the others that had always been loyal to the Empire/Commonwealth didn't need, in my view.

There have also been complaints over the years that Aussies, Canadians, New Zealanders and others from Commonwealth nations holding their nations' passports have been kept waiting longer in queues at British airports for passport checks while Europeans, including from countries with whom Britain fought world wars, are waved through, as they have EU passports.

It's these sort of things that strain old ties and IMO are and were most unfair.
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  #747  
Old 02-26-2016, 06:06 AM
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When Malcolm Turn was President of the Republican movement all those years ago, I remember him and Paul Keating saying that a President would be picked by parliament from Ex Politicians. That is the only reason why I mentioned that.
I still wouldn't vote to become a Republic without seeing what type of a republican model we would use.
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  #748  
Old 02-26-2016, 06:39 AM
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My idea is to find out first IF there is actual support for Australia to become a republic and then work out the type. Only when it was clear that a type of republic had sufficient support would it become a referendum vote and not a plebiscite vote.

The last vote was one model. The public never has had a chance to vote on a range of models and that is what is needed - find out the model that would be acceptable to the majority of the population.

If we only ever vote for one model it is always going to lose and this costly exercise will keep coming back every 20 or so years.

Let's find out IF there is 50%+1 of the population who actually want to be a republic - a simple question at the next election. Then discuss the possible models and even take that to a vote using the preferential system with the winner needing at least 50%+1 and then finally a full on referendum on accepting that model - having already said we want to be a republic.

Saying that we have to only vote on a particular model will mean that many republicans will vote 'no' because it isn't their preferred model while asking the simple 'do you want Australia to become a republic?' as a starting point to the debate and discussions give time and shows where Australians want to go with their future.

With my suggestion there could be three or four votes:

1. Do you want to be a republic?
2. Which of the following models would you support? A list of up to 10 could easily be arranged at this point to reduce to a smaller number at the next stage.
3. Do you want xxx or yyy or zzz model?
4. Do you agree to change the constitution to the majority model?
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  #749  
Old 02-26-2016, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
When was it ever suggested that we would leave the Commonwealth?


No one, to my knowledge, ever suggested such a thing. Becoming a republic means we would have to re-apply for membership but would we be denied - I doubt it.


The idea of a Head of State not born in Australia is fine with most republicans. What they can't stomach is the idea of a Head of State who lives permanently overseas and has only visited this country 16 times in the last 64 years - hardly a reason to continue to have her as the Head of State.


I voted 'no' in 1999 but would vote 'yes' in any new plebiscite or referendum.


I do think that we need a plebiscite with the simple question 'do you want Australia to be a republic?' If that is defeated then we republicans need to accept the decision and disappear from the debate but if that is successful then we need to move forward with debate and further plebiscites on the type of republic Australians want.


While we are in this limbo land of not knowing absolutely whether Australians actually want to be a republic (the 1999 vote included the vote on the type of republic and not just the actual issue itself - which should have come first but didn't) we will continue to see this debate raise its head every so often.


It should also be noted that it is possible for a state to vote separately to become a republic as each state is a separate monarchy - as evidenced by the fact that the Succession to the Crown Act had to pass each state before it was passed federally.

Regarding Commonwealth membership - our Constitutional arrangements have nothing to do with continued membership of the Commonwealth of Nations. When Mauritius became a republic in 1992, it simply changed from a Commonwealth Realm, to a republic within the Commonwealth. There is no question of having to apply for re-admission based on the form of government of an existing member. The only requirement for a nation in such a position is to accept the fact that Her Majesty is at present, the head of this international family of realms and republics, without being the sovereign of all of them.

The misunderstanding however, does illustrate how easily confused this fundamental question is and how many misconceptions abound.

The republic question was asked and was answered. Many continuing and new republicans refuse to accept that the result was the voice of generations saying 'we do not want to change our Constitution'. The motives and rationale for the outcome are there to be debated and there are many popular theories among republicans, but all too often these theories are misrepresented as facts, then assumed to be so by the poor unfortunate forced to listen.

Some would say sour grapes. I like that republicanism exists in Australia, to test the waters and push certain buttons from time to time, but with every effort made on their part, the public apathy is a reassurance to many monarchists that the days of the Crown in Australia are by no means numbered.

I'm glad you raised the question of federalism Iluvbertie, the same is the case in reverse, should any of the states wish to secede from the Federation in the event of wildly diverse referendum result in the future, they may do so. The Crown binds us in an unobtrusive, unbiased way, easily overlooked and underestimated, but I wouldn't give it up for all the tea in China.
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  #750  
Old 03-09-2016, 09:59 PM
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A little titbit for you: membership of the Australian Republic Movement has quintupled since this time last year. Make of that what you will.
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  #751  
Old 03-09-2016, 11:29 PM
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Still doesn't guarantee victory at any referendum.

How many members does the ARM have now, anyway?
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  #752  
Old 03-10-2016, 09:26 AM
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The Director of ARM, Peter FitzSimons has apparently recruited some more members since the State Premier's letter was released on the 25th of January, hardly surprising. He concedes though that representation among Australians in their 20s is not there yet. The assumption that it's only a matter of time before the inevitable is one of the most infuriating aspects of the entire debate. Assumption was the undoing of Gough Whitlam and many others before and since.

Feed the hungry, house the homeless, employed the unemployed, treat the sick, educate the young, care for the elderly, then indulge your desire for abstract debate, but do not presume the end of the monarchy in Australia is already written - it isn't.
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  #753  
Old 04-12-2016, 05:57 PM
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Australia's new $5 bill comes under fire over Queen's image
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  #754  
Old 04-12-2016, 06:28 PM
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Thank you for posting the link. As with most things related to the Australian monarchy, there will be a week of feigned outrage or mockery and then everything will return to normal. An attempt to make something out of nothing. The Federation $5 Notes introduced in 2000 caused a stir because they omitted the monarch's image. The proved unpopular and were gradually removed from circulation. I quite like the updated image.
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  #755  
Old 04-14-2016, 03:33 PM
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A poll, conducted by OmniPoll for The Australian Women's Weekly

Australians want Prince George to replace Queen Elizabeth instead of Prince Charle
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  #756  
Old 04-14-2016, 03:49 PM
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Okay!

What about William?

The animosity towards Charles I can somehow understand, even though I think it's a bit unfair. But George over William? That one I don't get.
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  #757  
Old 04-14-2016, 03:55 PM
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The headline is misleading. William is still there it's just now George is in the mix

"A staggering 49 per cent wanted William to be our King and 32 per cent were happy to vote for Prince George, even though he's still a baby,"

Prince Charles has 25 percent.
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  #758  
Old 04-14-2016, 03:57 PM
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I knew this would eventually happen, but did not think it would be so soon.

I'm sure in 2036, during the reign of the octogenarian and revered King Charles III, people will prefer the young and popular Prince George over his middle aged father, the Prince of Wales.

History always repeats itself.
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  #759  
Old 04-14-2016, 03:57 PM
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Thanks. Perhaps I should read a little slower.
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  #760  
Old 04-14-2016, 04:31 PM
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The most significant information in the poll was that only

Quote:
Thirty-five per cent of the participants were in favour of dismissing the monarch and declaring Australia a republic and, most surprisingly to Rieden, only 23 per cent of the 18-24 year-olds surveyed supported a republic.

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