The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #621  
Old 08-30-2015, 02:48 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,223
Yes, but these are Acts that can be repealed. That isn't so with a change to the Head of State. That's permanent.

The Abbott Government isn't defeated yet (and I say that as a Labor supporter) and I don't believe Shorten will move on this in his first term if Labor does get elected. Too many other things of an economic nature to be attended to.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #622  
Old 08-30-2015, 03:05 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,197
We may not have to wait for a change in government - just a change in PM - as many Liberals are also republicans e.g. Joe Hockey and Malcolm Turnbull (who has headed the ARM).
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #623  
Old 08-30-2015, 03:43 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Last time the PM forced his preferred model on the convention and thus on the public. He suspected that wasn't the model the republicans wanted and wasn't going to offer the preferred republican model
That is at best a revisionist version of what happened in 1998, or, at worst, a blatant and deliberate lie. The model put to the electorate in 1999 was the one chosen by the republican delegates at the Constitutional Convention the previous year. The referendum question, quite rightly, summarised the constitutional changes required to implement the republican's preferred model. But the model chosen by the republicans was rejected by the electorate. It is disingenuous of republicans to blame the then Prime Minister for the failure of the model their delegates chose. If a history teacher wanted an example of how extreme bias can lead someone to misrepresent what actually happened, here is a perfect example.
Reply With Quote
  #624  
Old 08-30-2015, 04:51 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 4,420
Republicans misrepresenting the facts is nothing new.
Reply With Quote
  #625  
Old 08-30-2015, 06:03 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubb Fuddler View Post
That is at best a revisionist version of what happened in 1998, or, at worst, a blatant and deliberate lie. The model put to the electorate in 1999 was the one chosen by the republican delegates at the Constitutional Convention the previous year. The referendum question, quite rightly, summarised the constitutional changes required to implement the republican's preferred model. But the model chosen by the republicans was rejected by the electorate. It is disingenuous of republicans to blame the then Prime Minister for the failure of the model their delegates chose. If a history teacher wanted an example of how extreme bias can lead someone to misrepresent what actually happened, here is a perfect example.
That was the model put forward at the Convention - true - but it was the PM's preferred model, is he had to support any model at all - not a revisionist version or a lie but the facts.

It should be noted that only 73 out of the 152 delegates supported that model but the direct election supporters abstained from the vote so that a model was able to be put to the people at all. 57 voted against and 22 abstained (some of those who supported the direct election included) so that 79 of the delegates were opposed to the model put to the people. In hindsight I am sure that those who abstained regret their decision as had they voted negatively Mr Howard had promised the opening of the convention to take the simple question of 'do you want a Australia to be a republic' in a plebiscite to the Australian people at the next election. The direct election supporters reasoned that they would get another chance to take their model to the Australian people and supporters of the republican cause do believe that that is the model that has the best chance of getting up next time.

The PM of the day opposed the republic and so was supportive of a model that he felt had the least chance of being past and he was a huge player at the convention.

I voted against that model then believing that a constitutional monarchy was right for Australia but it is this board that opened my eyes and I would like to thank the posters on TRF, both monarchist and republican, for converting me from the monarchist I was when I joined here in 2008 and the republican I am today.

I have taught the republican issue to Year 10 students for many years, first when it was a compulsory topic in NSW and then again when it became an optional topic. Now it is a research option for out students - but most only research a topic that has a minor element of Australian history in it. The latest syllabus (the National Curriculum) makes very little Australian history compulsory - Ancient Australia (pre 1788) and then WWI, WWII and Changing Rights and Freedoms for Indigenous Australians. This is a syllabus approved by the current Liberal government in NSW with nothing of the controversial issues that created a large part of the demand for a republic e.g. the Dismissal of the Whitlam Government (40 years ago this year).
Reply With Quote
  #626  
Old 08-30-2015, 07:01 AM
AfricanAUSSIE's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Republicans misrepresenting the facts is nothing new.
Likewise for Monarchists and the rest of the population no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #627  
Old 08-30-2015, 10:28 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 4,420
Quote:
YOU have to feel a little sorry for the devoted republicans among us. They may be right in theory but the Australian republican movement is doomed to fail, at least for the next 10 to 20 years, if not more.

Liberal Democrats Senator David Leyonhjelm summed up the attitude of most Australians when he said last week: “My position is emphatic — I don’t give a stuff.”

It’s precisely how many of us feel about this non-issue that is dredged up on what seems like a biannual basis with the same tired, old arguments. Having a foreign head of state, who comes to that position not through merit but birthright, is a fundamentally flawed system, but the reality is that it works for Australia.

We have a stable system of government with a figurehead who is benign, much admired and not interested in interfering in our affairs. Her representative, the Governor-General, with one notable exception, stays largely neutral and performs only a ceremonial role.

Every few years, the Queen or her unremarkable children or photogenic grandchildren and great grandchildren visit our shores to much fanfare, say a few nice words then are off again. No harm done.

The monarchy is not only low maintenance and low cost but it serves a useful purpose, so why would sensible Australians mess with a system that has served us well since Federation?
Read more: No Cookies | Herald Sun
Reply With Quote
  #628  
Old 08-30-2015, 10:42 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,223
It is the same old thing dredged up again and again. Australians don't want to be bothered with it. There are more important vital things on the agenda for our country. I can honestly say I haven't heard the republic brought up as a subject of conversation at social gatherings I have been at, (and I count artists, dancers social workers and teachers among my friends,) for about four years, and even then the conversation dribbled away after a few minutes.
Reply With Quote
  #629  
Old 08-30-2015, 03:51 PM
Jacknch's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Suffolk/Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,940
Numerous off-topic posts about sport have been deleted/edited. Please stay within the topic of this thread and avoid going off onto unnecessary tangents.

The issues relating to Australia becoming a Republic or remaining a Monarchy are very sensitive to everyone concerned - no matter what their opinion might be. As a reminder, this is NOT the place to promote or vent political views or to engage in heated debates and arguments. If people wish to discuss politics in Australia, they may do so privately via Private Message.

Members are reminded to remain civil and respectful toward one another, particularly when different points of view are in play.
__________________
JACK
Reply With Quote
  #630  
Old 09-07-2015, 04:24 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,223
An article about monarchist support in Australia.

The Monarchy In Australia
Reply With Quote
  #631  
Old 09-08-2015, 04:18 AM
AfricanAUSSIE's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
An article about monarchist support in Australia.

The Monarchy In Australia
Thanks Curryong but as soon as I read "members of the Royal Family have been warmly welcomed by most Australians since 1867" I switched off. That is simply not possible. One only has to look at the crowd turn out for the Queen on her last visit, including the sourcing of children to give her flowers, etc. At best, the author could say that most "Australians don't care".

If most Australians supported the monarchy, the turn out would be much better than what we see. Crowds turn out in far greater numbers for lesser occasions. Have a look at the Oprah turn out.
Reply With Quote
  #632  
Old 09-08-2015, 05:09 AM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
Thanks Curryong but as soon as I read "members of the Royal Family have been warmly welcomed by most Australians since 1867" I switched off. That is simply not possible. One only has to look at the crowd turn out for the Queen on her last visit, including the sourcing of children to give her flowers, etc. At best, the author could say that most "Australians don't care".

If most Australians supported the monarchy, the turn out would be much better than what we see. Crowds turn out in far greater numbers for lesser occasions. Have a look at the Oprah turn out.
I'm glad I read the article because it gave me a laugh, but for an unintended reason.

I found it amusing and telling that the Sydney-dwelling author is the Royal Correspondent for 2Max FM 91.3 at ... drum roll ... Narrabri. Narrabri! She has a monthly segment there. I'm sure the CWA ladies of Narrabri and Wee Waa and environs enjoy her show, too. They probably gather around the wireless together to listen to it, with their knitting and crochet and some nice cheese scones and cakes and cups of tea, talking about the latest issue of the Women's Weekly.

Perhaps you have to know Narrabri to get the joke, but to me the fact she is Royal Correspondent to a community radio station in the conservative North-West New South Wales wheat/sheep/cotton belt says a lot about the real level of interest in the Royal Family in this country.
__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #633  
Old 09-08-2015, 06:24 AM
Jacknch's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Suffolk/Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,940
The problem with the wording in the article is that it generalises and leaves people assuming it is true.

It's alway nice to see the crowds - of any country - greet the Queen and wave flags etc, but common sense tells you that it's only those bothered or who have the time on their hands to wait for the Queen to arrive. Others who stay at home or have to work may watch events on the news later, others still will have no interest.

I am from the UK and very much a supporter of the monarchy and our lovely Queen. Nonetheless, only once in all my life have I gone to an event the Queen was attending to see her and that was only because in was close by to where I worked and at lunchtime.

Clearly there is some support for the Monarchy in Australia, but without some polls one can only guess as to what that support might be. So are there any recent polls in Australia concerning the Monarchy? We seem to have them quite regularly here in the UK!
__________________
JACK
Reply With Quote
  #634  
Old 09-08-2015, 10:21 AM
AfricanAUSSIE's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 891
Just pic the right one and it will give you the figures you want!

I'd say majority probably don't care and wouldn't know much or anything about the family. The rest may be divided into monarchists and republicans.
Reply With Quote
  #635  
Old 09-08-2015, 10:36 AM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
Just pic the right one and it will give you the figures you want!

I'd say majority probably don't care and wouldn't know much or anything about the family. The rest may be divided into monarchists and republicans.
And even amongst those who identify as monarchists and republicans, there is a scale of level of commitment. I think a lot of monarchists are of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind.
__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #636  
Old 09-08-2015, 11:08 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
The problem with the wording in the article is that it generalises and leaves people assuming it is true.

It's alway nice to see the crowds - of any country - greet the Queen and wave flags etc, but common sense tells you that it's only those bothered or who have the time on their hands to wait for the Queen to arrive. Others who stay at home or have to work may watch events on the news later, others still will have no interest.

I am from the UK and very much a supporter of the monarchy and our lovely Queen. Nonetheless, only once in all my life have I gone to an event the Queen was attending to see her and that was only because in was close by to where I worked and at lunchtime.

Clearly there is some support for the Monarchy in Australia, but without some polls one can only guess as to what that support might be. So are there any recent polls in Australia concerning the Monarchy? We seem to have them quite regularly here in the UK!

Most recent polls I found on the web show support for the republic in the upper 30's, slightly below support for the monarchy in the low 40's. "Neutral" or "undecided" respondents hover around 20 %. Surprisingly, republican support among younger Australians is also only around 35 %.

Republican cause takes heavy knock in poll

If those figures stand, I'd say that likelihood of the monarchy being abolished in Australia in the near future is very low.
Reply With Quote
  #637  
Old 09-09-2015, 04:56 AM
AfricanAUSSIE's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
And even amongst those who identify as monarchists and republicans, there is a scale of level of commitment. I think a lot of monarchists are of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind.
Yeah, I was one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" type. No more.:big grin:

Used to be in that undecided 20%.
Reply With Quote
  #638  
Old 09-14-2015, 05:29 AM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
Well, well, well! Interesting things happening here at the moment. Malcolm Turnbull might be our Prime Minister by tomorrow morning.



I haven't been this interested in what is happening in Canberra since 11 November 1975.

__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #639  
Old 09-14-2015, 06:57 AM
AfricanAUSSIE's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 891
Oooooh, and suddenly, Australia as a republic could be around the corner!
Reply With Quote
  #640  
Old 09-14-2015, 07:58 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,197
As much as I would like to think so it didn't happen when the ALP were in power and Turnbull was leader of the opposition so unless he can see some political capital in it I don't see him moving that way, if elected as PM this evening. At this time the vote hasn't happened. I do think that neither side will move while The Queen is alive but ... I am rarely right on anything so this will probably be another of those occasions.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
australia, british commonwealth, elizabeth ii, governor general, julia gillard, monarchy versus republic, parliament, queen elizabeth ii


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Queen and Canada: Residences, Governor General, etc... Duchess Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh 552 11-14-2016 07:12 PM
The Queen and New Zealand: Residences, Governor-General, etc... wbenson Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh 51 09-08-2016 11:29 PM
Brazilian Imperial Palaces, residences etc Marengo The Imperial Family of Brazil 23 03-14-2015 10:01 PM
General Discussion about Dutch Royal Residences Tina Dutch Royal Residences 20 10-06-2014 05:13 AM
The Queen and the Caribbean: Residences, Governors-General, etc... wbenson Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh 48 02-25-2012 05:56 AM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch state visit e-mail elisabeth fashion poll free hosting grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction member watch monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess beatrice hats princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats prince sverre magnus queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden swedish royal family summer portraits 2016 the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:12 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises