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  #441  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
She has no right to congratulate a team that defeated Australia in anything as she is Queen of Australia.

That is the point - she can't congratulate ONE realm when it defeats any other realm at all - ever as in doing so she is showing bias against another realm.
I disagree. I think she can congratulate one realm when it defeats another realm at a sporting event, so long as she does so regardless of which realm wins. If she only congratulates England when it wins, but never Australia or any of the other realms that's a problem. Likewise if she openly displays a preference for one realm to win over another (ie fist pumping) that's a problem. But general congratulations isn't showing favouritism, it's showing good manners.

Consider, if Australia had won and she hasn't congratulated them (on the grounds that she couldn't congratulate one realm for defeating another) it would have appeared as a blatant display of preference for England.

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She has allowed her grandson to actively campaign AGAINST Australia for the rights for England to host the World Cup - that was wrong and she should never have allowed that unless The Queen of Australia was in favour of Australia losing - which she so clearly is.
I don't know that she allowed that she actually allowed him to do so, or simply that he did so and she didn't stop it.

Unless the Queen actively participates in a campaign I don't think it's fair of us to condemn her for said campaign. That her grandson participated in the campaign is grounds to scrutinize him, but he is not the Queen.

I do agree with the basic point though, and the grandson in question (I believe it's William, right?) was doing a great wrong. The younger royals have a hard time in not showing a preference for England over the other realms - even over the other realms of the UK - and I think this is a great disability to the lasting relationship between the crown and commonwealth. The fault, however, doesn't lay at the Queen's feet but at her grandson's.

At the same time, however, the argument can be made that the Queen is monarch of the 16 realms, but her children do not necessarily belong to a royal family of those realms. I know in Canada measures have been taken to consider members of the BRF to also be members of a Canadian Royal Family, but at the same time they're not necessarily Canadian citizens (it's been debated). I don't know what the situation regarding royal family is in Australia, but if there isn't an official Australian Royal Family, or if British Royals are not considered to be Australian citizens can they be faulted for supporting a country that they are royals and citizens of over a country that they are neither royals nor citizens of?

In other terms, if Australia had a president who had high profile family members that were of a different citizenship, but sometimes represented the president within Australia, would you fault them for campaigning in the interest of their native country? Would you fault the president for his family doing such?
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  #442  
Old 07-18-2013, 10:41 PM
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Yes I would - just as I find fault with any person who is a citizen of Australia supporting any other country at anything.

The Queen is at fault because she is The Queen and the head of her family and is allowing them to show preferences - they are supposed to be neutral in politics and don't vote etc out of loyalty to The Queen so as not to embarass her (words from the monarchy website) but it is fine for them, with her blessing and so support, to show a preference for one realm over another - that is clearly her allowing that to happen and she should be faulted for doing so.
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  #443  
Old 07-19-2013, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Yes I would - just as I find fault with any person who is a citizen of Australia supporting any other country at anything.
.
Seriously? So in your eyes for instance, a born English men but lives in Australia and has Australian citizenship would be at fault if he supported England in say the World Cup? Why? People should be allowed who they like. Just like a lad from Manchester should not be forced into supporting Manchester United, if he wishes to support Liverpool. There is no fault in my eyes. I agree with Ish that The Queen can support England as long as she shows equal support to other realms when necessary.


When it comes down to it, cricket especially, nobody seems that bothered frankly. Is this going to be the fuel to ignite the full force of Australian Republicanism, a supposed fist pump? I doubt it.
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  #444  
Old 07-19-2013, 01:55 AM
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I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the problem. The two teams seem to be independent non-profit entities, not countries, so what's wrong with them having to acquire fans on an open market? She keeps neutral in politics because that touches upon serious issues with the governance of her realms. Does that really apply to cricket just because there are two cricket organizations that choose to label themselves England and Australia? The royal warrant system institutionalizes preference for one organization over another; I'd accept that there are arguments against that as well, but as a public figure it's always going to be obvious if she has a preference towards a particular umbrella maker over another, etc.

But I also live in a place where sports are separate from any real identity issues, so I'll admit that my views could be unrealistic.
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  #445  
Old 07-19-2013, 03:49 AM
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As the Australian taxpayers actually supported massively the development of many of these cricketers (those that went to the Cricket Academy did so on taxpayers money), the government passed a new law to allow a Pakistani to gain citizenship earlier than normal to be eligible for this series (hasn't been selected mind you) and we fund the development of the grounds etc this is more than just two organisations - there is government involvement in cricket in this country.

Sport is one of the most defining things about Australia - in fact the 'Australian' cricket team was formed before Australia itself and toured and defeated England before we existed as a country.
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  #446  
Old 07-19-2013, 04:11 AM
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Prince William didn't campaign for England as a prince of the UK but as president of the FA. If he was president of the Australian FA instead, he would have campaign for them.

He also wouldn't have opened the World Cup if he was king, the Governor General would just in the Sydney Olympics and the Vancouver winter ones. The queen could have opened both of them but didn't.
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  #447  
Old 07-19-2013, 05:03 AM
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It doesn't matter what title he held - he is the 2nd in line to the throne and shouldn't be campaigning against a realm of his grandmother's - and I would have the same opinion if he had campaigned for Australia against England.

He was, and is President of the FA of ENGLAND - and that is a position he shoudn't hold as it shows a preference over the FAs of Scotland, Wales and Ireland as well as the other realms.
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  #448  
Old 07-19-2013, 05:10 AM
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Well, we have a more relaxed view about it - for example, Princess Royal always supports the Scottish RFU and the Prince of Wales - well, Wales actually and so on. Anne also represented Britain on the Olympics committee.

Royal support is needed for many sports - why dont the Australians ask them to support them? I'm sure they'd help out.
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  #449  
Old 07-19-2013, 10:21 AM
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Maybe the Aussies are just a bit upset because they have been having a bit of a bad run in sports recently.....2012 Olympics didnt pan out as expected and there were calls for a government inquiry, and now losing at cricket may have pushed a couple of them over over the edge. It does seem a bit silly, since it is only sport, but then some sports fans can be a bit rabid about their teams.
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  #450  
Old 07-19-2013, 02:00 PM
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Regarding the Queen and her congratulating one Commonwealth team for beating another Commonwealth team - I still think it would have been inappropriate had she not congratulated the winning team, regardless of who it was. If the Aussies had win and she hadn't congratulated them on the grounds that it was on realm against another there would have been a fuss. If it had been a realm against a non-realm and the non-realm had won and she hadn't congratulated them there would have been a fuss. In congratulating the winner regardless of who it is and her relationship to them or their country, HM is simply being polite, proper, and showing good sportsmanship.

Personally I think that so long as you remember that things like the Queen's honours and who gets invited to fancy events is more the choice of the government than HM, then HM does largely maintain a neutrality. She may privately support one realm over another, but she doesn't seem to do so often in public - most stories of her doing so, like the fist bump, are more than likely concoctions dreamt up by reporters.

The same cannot be said of the extended BRF, particularly in regards to the younger generation, but I put forward again that they themselves don't have the relationship with the commonwealth that HM has.

I can't speak for Australia because I don't know the specifics there, but in Canada while there is an official Canadian Royal Family, that is largely the BRF, but it is debated whether or not they themselves are Canadian citizens. If they are invited to come to Canada it is as a representative of HM, and only direct-line members and their consorts are invited on an official basis. Thus, if Andrew, for example, is not considered a Canadian citizen and is not invited to visit Canada officially, then why should he have to be seen as being neutral when Canada and England play each other?

The relationship between the RF and the Commonwealth is a two way street, and in many ways they're damned if they do and damned if they don't - try to be involved too much and they're seen as being colonialists who want to interfere, but don't try to be involved at all and they're seen as not caring about the other realms. Personally, I think if a royal is not a citizen of a realm other than the UK, is not allowed to be more involved in other realms, and/or is not a part of any official RF of that realm then they shouldn't be required to be neutral in sporting events that involve other realms.
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  #451  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:14 PM
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The Queen's first visit to Australia took place in 1954 for a period of eight weeks. See Australia's way of life in the early 1950s. Full programme runs for 100 minutes in seven parts, and is very entertaining.

First Australian feature film shot in colour. See it now re-edited, restored, and for the very first time in Widescreen and Stereosound-













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  #452  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:38 PM
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Thanks so much for posting these links, Dman. I look forward to watching them when I get a chance.
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  #453  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:48 PM
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Thank you - I will be adding them to my watch list as well - and possibly subject by Year 10s to them when I do the 1950s with them next term.
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  #454  
Old 01-20-2014, 04:10 PM
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And the Governor General of Australia is Qentin Bryce. Her husband is Richard Bryce.
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  #455  
Old 01-27-2014, 10:01 PM
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General Peter Cosgrove to be appointed new Governor-General on Monday: report

Former defence chief Peter Cosgrove is tipped to be named as Australia's new governor-general on Monday.

General Cosgrove has long been the frontrunner to succeed Quentin Bryce in the position, with speculation he would be appointed reported late last month. Prime Minister Tony Abbott is expected to appointed General Gosgrove on Monday, the day after Australia Day, News Corp reported on Thursday
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  #456  
Old 01-28-2014, 04:47 AM
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Vice-Regal Standard of the Governor-General of Australia


Sydney Morning Herald 28 January 2014

Governor-General Peter Cosgrove: A rough diamond's time to shine

excerpts

Australia's new Governor-General, Peter Cosgrove, won the Military Cross for gallantry as a young platoon commander in Vietnam, but he remained all but an unknown soldier to most Australians until, 30 years later, he was sent to East Timor. There, he would gain the loyalty of the soldiers under his command, initially by occupying a modest bunk in their quarters; draw the plaudits of the international community and the thanks of the East Timorese - former guerilla leader Xanana Gusmao presented his resistance uniform as thanks, literally giving the shirt off his back; and won the status of hero across Australia.

As commander of the United Nations-backed East Timor peacekeeping mission, interFet, in 1999, then Major-General Cosgrove's military career was suddenly supercharged. He returned to Australia to be promoted to Lieutenant-General and to be appointed Chief of the Army. In 2001, he was named Australian of the Year, an honour he accepted on behalf of all those who had served in East Timor. A year later, in 2002, his 37-year military career reached its pinnacle. He was a full General and Chief of the Defence Force.

In 2006, General Cosgrove again gained national prominence when he took charge of rebuilding north Queensland areas destroyed by Cyclone Larry. The Queensland government honoured him by naming a Townsville suburb Cosgrove. Prime Minister Tony Abbott [has capped] General Cosgrove's public career with the keys to Yarralumla and Admiralty House. General Cosgrove won't find it hard to navigate around Yarralumla - in 1972 he served as aide de camp to Governor-General Sir Paul Hasluck.

Sources say the Prime Minister chose a widely admired military man like General Cosgrove partly because he was keen to ensure next year's 100-year anniversary of Anzac Day and Australia's role in World War I was granted a strong vice-regal presence. General Cosgrove is a former board member of the Australian War Memorial and is a member of the NSW Anzac Centenary committee.

He has the added benefit for Mr Abbott, a keen monarchist, of being an avowed supporter of a constitutional monarchy.

Yarralumla is a long way from what were in the 1950s the crowded terraces of Paddington in Sydney where Peter Cosgrove grew up, the son of a soldier.
. . . . . .

v The appointment of General Cosgrove as G-G appears to have fairly strong public support.
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  #457  
Old 01-28-2014, 11:15 PM
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He sounds like an excellent choice.
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  #458  
Old 01-28-2014, 11:36 PM
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He is an excellent choice. I do wonder whether, like Bill Hayden, he will change from being a republican to a monarchist while in this position or whether he will remain a republican like Bryce.
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  #459  
Old 01-30-2014, 08:13 PM
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The SMH article states that General Cosgrove is "an avowed supporter of a constitutional monarchy".
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  #460  
Old 02-01-2014, 01:42 PM
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Support for an Australian republic has collapsed to a 20-year low, with just 39.4 per cent of Australians saying they support a republic.
Republican cause takes heavy knock in poll

Its the "Kate Effect"
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