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  #321  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:59 AM
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When CHOGM 2011 was announced for Perth, it was speculated that the Queen would come, but there haven't been any official announcements yet.
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  #322  
Old 01-05-2011, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
I wonder when and if, Prime Minister Julia Gillard is going to meet Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Australia. Maybe she might go to Buckingham Palace or it might be CHOGM 2010.
HM has to be invited to Australia, should she come for the CHOGM in Perth then she may meet Julia Gillard.
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  #323  
Old 01-05-2011, 02:20 PM
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Great topic!

On whether we should become a Republic or not, my own personal feelings about it is unless the government or someone can show me evidence, with at least some detail, that we are better off as a Republic than I have no interest in changing anything.

In my opinion, I have not seen or heard enough evidence or information from those calling for a Republican to warrant any changes. Being patriotic and finally standing alone without the Poms and the monarchy over our heads is not enough. I want to see numbers, statistics...something that can at least guarantee that this is the better choice.

And I'm not sure launching another referendum after the Queen dies would work. In fact, it could backfire. Charles and Camilla may not be popular now but the Queens death could endear people more to the monarchy and people might actually be more determined to keep it.

Or even yet, what if Prince William is the one who becomes King next instead of Prince Charles? I know it would be breaking with tradition but I'm sure that the monarchy know that Charles and Camilla aren't exactly on everyone's favourite list and could see it as a chance to bring some security to the monarchy for a while anyway.

Personally, I think that's going to happen. It's more than likely Prince Charles senses the mood of the public and I honestly think he doesn't want it anyway. So I get the feeling that he knows Prince William is favoured by the public and would most likely abdicate the title to his son.

And I think Australians would support Prince William. His mother was much loved here and most see her in him so what would the chances for a republic be then?
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  #324  
Old 01-05-2011, 03:21 PM
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Charles will not abdicate - and that is what it will take for him not to be automatically King. He sees it as his duty and his destiny - he was raised by the Queen Mum remember and the horrors of the abdication within the family would have been impressed upon him.

I don't think it is a popularity contest at all.

Most Australians have no real feelings one way or the other but the basic argument is that we should have our own Head of State - someone who can represent us and us alone.

It is cringing when a foreign Head of State, at a State Dinner, offers a toast to the Head of State - The Queen, who isn't there but is asleep in London and it is embarrasing to me as an Australian.

I used to be a monarchist but can't wait for another chance to vote on having our own Head of State.

The pity is that Queen Victoria or Edward VII didn't establish their sons/daughters as the Kings/Queen's in their own right in countries like Australia and Canada. By now we would have had 100 years of our own monarchy - and people would have accepted that but we should have our own Head of State and not share one with 16 other countries. It is about self-respect on the international stage.
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  #325  
Old 01-05-2011, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
You respect the office.
I can respect the office without wanting to have that office perpetuated.
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Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
...Do we not have an obligation through being subjects of Her Majesty, the Queen our Sovereign to support her...
We are not subjects of the Queen but citizens of Australia.
In a democracy the will of the people is sovereign - not any individual. The Queen recognises that - as she said in 1999 when we had the referedum vote - 'that is a decision for the Australian people' (her words not mine).

It is not high treason to vote on a constitutionally put question by our elected government.
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  #326  
Old 01-05-2011, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Charles will not abdicate...
I respect your opinions. Here's the way I'm looking at it: People are questioning the validity of a Monarchy in today's society and public support is waning. If they are looking at it from my point of view, then the best opportunity to change things is put a young and popular heir next in line. There is no point in having Prince Charles as the King when he is one of the least popular royals, and adding salt to injury, Camilla would be his Queen in a nation who are still very much attatched to Diana.

I get what your saying but I cannot vote on a Republic based on the reasons you have given. I want to see evidence that if we become a Republic, we would be better off than under the current system. So far, I have not seen anything that can tell me by becoming a Republic it's gonna make any difference to my life as it is. So why fix it if it ain't broke? We have developed and prospered as a nation under the current system.

I'm pretty certain the PM is an elected representative of the state.
Australia is already a stand alone country. The world knows that we are a country governing itself. We have our own currency, we have our own culture and history, as short as it may be, people around the world know things that are native to our country...eg Kangaroo, Koala, Vegemite etc...They recognize it as Australian and nothing else. How can you not think Australia hasn't got self-respect already? There's plenty to be proud of. So many great Australians representing us out in the world.

Besides, I want to keep supporting my country at Commonwealth games. I cannot imagine Australia not being a part of it. We make those games
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  #327  
Old 01-06-2011, 04:53 AM
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I know many other Aussies get embarrased when foreign leaders toast a foreign Head of State as ours - they acknowledge that we don't have our own person to represent us at the very top levels.

Being a republic won't change being in the Commonwealth - unless the rest of the Commonwealth refuse to allow us to remain. The vast majority of countries within the Commonwealth are republics these days and at least one has never even been part of the British Empire.

Being a republic won't necessarily see any major change in how things are done now except that every so often we elect the Head of State rather than have a foreigner in that place.

Having William actively campaign against Australia originally for the 2018 World Cup (we originally applied for both 2018 and 2022) shows that the Royal Family put the UK before the other kingdoms and that was embarrassing as well - the future King of Australia actively saying to the rest of the world 'don't give the 2018 World Cup to Australia'. We need to be absolutely clear and separate from Britain.
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  #328  
Old 01-06-2011, 06:18 AM
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As much as I love the British Royal Family as an Australian Citizen I do believe that it is time that Australia became a republic.

Yes, William was popular when he was visiting but there is a great difference between being popular for a 2 week visit and being popular when you are a monarch and in reality can only come to Australia every 5 years or so.

IMO I think that in Australia we look at the Royal Family more as celebrities and want to know the 'gossip' about them rather than with reverence as our reigning monarchs and although our interest in their lives wouldn't change by becoming a republic I believe that a republic would allow us to get a head of state more representative of the Australian people.
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  #329  
Old 01-06-2011, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by justcurious View Post

I'm pretty certain the PM is an elected representative of the state.
Australia is already a stand alone country. The world knows that we are a country governing itself. We have our own currency, we have our own culture and history, as short as it may be, people around the world know things that are native to our country...eg Kangaroo, Koala, Vegemite etc...They recognize it as Australian and nothing else. How can you not think Australia hasn't got self-respect already? There's plenty to be proud of. So many great Australians representing us out in the world.
But it's a known fact that Australia, on a global scale and as a global brand, is not taken particularly seriously. Australia wields very little influence on a bi lateral scale and although our currency is doing particularly well atm, it's only a matter of time before it turns to dust again. We are not thought of as an 'important' political player and are seen as a country which often brings very little incentive to the table. On both accounts I think it quite underestimating, and becoming a federal republic would imo certainly help influence a more clear and precise image (and direction) for this nation abroad. Instead of being a country known only for Koala's, kangaroo's and vegemite...


The monarchy best served it's purpose in Australia during an era where the populous was predominately made up of caucasion residents. It appealed to the mentality, and to the 1st and 2nd generation Australians in general. But society now is so incredibly diverse and many have no personal connection to the institution of monarchy because they have come from, or are descended of countries that do not observe that form of government. As time proceeds, our identity as a nation continues to evolve and the connection to the monarchy becomes less and less relevant.

Although understandable due to her age, our own Head of State has not set foot on Australian soil (except for one event at Australia House in London) in 5 years, this coming March. It really is absurd when one removes their prejudice, as I myself have just done. I'm all for the monarchy whilst the Queen is alive, but when she passess away I do feel that then would be an appropriate time to say thank you, best of luck, will often write and farewell.
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  #330  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Having William actively campaign against Australia originally for the 2018 World Cup (we originally applied for both 2018 and 2022) shows that the Royal Family put the UK before the other kingdoms and that was embarrassing as well - the future King of Australia actively saying to the rest of the world 'don't give the 2018 World Cup to Australia'. We need to be absolutely clear and separate from Britain.
I didn't know we were competing against Britain for the same World Cup. That makes it worse. He was actively campaigning against us! The beast!

I think this is the sort of thing that is going to influence your average Aussie of UK heritage whose ancestors are buried in English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh soil and who feel a lingering connection to the motherland, but usually doesn't care much about politics or the RF, to decide to vote for the republic next time. It brings home to them the fact that we don't have someone on the world stage who is there to represent us and root for us and us alone. Once HM is no longer our Queen, more and more of us will question the situation and there will be very little opposition to the change. Unless the silly politicians ask the wrong question again.
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  #331  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:48 PM
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Initially both Britain and Australia decided to campaign for both 2018 and 2022 and William actively supported Britain against Australia. Some will argue that due to his position with the FA that is as it should be but as the future King of Australia it is unacceptable to campaign for one of his grandmother's kingdoms against another.

After the world cup this year both Britian and Australia decided to concentrate on one year only and both were booted in the first round of voting (with Britain getting 2 votes and Australia only 1).
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  #332  
Old 01-07-2011, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
...In a democracy the will of the people is sovereign - not any individual...
I dont think so. The will of the People is indeed sovereign. But not in a monarchy...within the Crown is sovereignty, vested in the physical person of the Sovereign whom represents the Crown. The Queen is Sovereign...we are indeed subjects/servants of Her Majesty, the Queen of Australia, for she is our Monarch and Sovereign.

All power...executive, judicial and legislative stems from the Crown...represented in the Sovereign. De-jure is the Sovereign, the Monarch and De-facto is People delegated to Government/Parliament.
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  #333  
Old 01-07-2011, 07:11 AM
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Australians haven't been subjects of any monarch for years. We are citizens of Australia and we live in a democracy where parliament is supreme not the monarch. Even in Britain, now, the people aren't described as subjects but as citizens.

The monarch gave up their political rights in 1660 to the parliament in return for the right of being the monarch (Charles II) - since then they have given up more and more power until they are now nothing more than a figurehead. Subsequent monarchs were fully aware of what happened to first Charles I in 1649 when he tried to overrule the sovreignty of parliament and the people and what happened in France when the King wouldn't give it away.

If the Queen can accept the sovreignty of the people then so should you.

If the British parliament voted to become a republic the Queen would have to sign the legislation and leave - she has no power and that is as it should be.
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  #334  
Old 01-07-2011, 05:49 PM
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Yes exactly, Iluvbertie. I'm no republican, but I believe in the supremacy of parliament.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
If the British parliament voted to become a republic the Queen would have to sign the legislation and leave - she has no power and that is as it should be.
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  #335  
Old 01-29-2011, 06:46 PM
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The Queen of Australia is reportedly likely to visit Australia for CHOGM in October of this year - Australia trip for Queen but forget Will | The Daily Telegraph
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  #336  
Old 02-01-2011, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley View Post
The Queen of Australia is reportedly likely to visit Australia for CHOGM in October of this year - Australia trip for Queen but forget Will | The Daily Telegraph
I wonder if Charles and Camilla will accompany HM to Australia for the CHOGM as they did to Uganda in 2007?
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  #337  
Old 04-28-2011, 10:18 AM
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Tonight ABC1's Q&A: 'Is The Royal Romance Over' examined the relationship between Elizabeth II, the monarchy and Australia and it was really a very lovely portrayal of the broad affection which is held for Elizabeth by a good many Australian's, be them monarchist and republican alike.

It was however, quite forthright about the indapendance issue (amongst others) and a former Prime Minister, Paul Keating, was one of the interviewees and spoke to some length about the occasions in which he had spoken with the Queen about Australian Indapendance.

Footage was shown of an address he gave in Parliament during a Queen's visit to Australia but 6 weeks after he took office in 1991. The Prime Minister made it quite clear during the address that he believed the only way for Australia was indapendance. The Queen gave what I considered to be an acknowledging, though slight, nod of the head but remained, as she does and does so well, perfectly poker faced.

The documentary advanced and around 10 or so minutes later it examined the occasion which had seen the Prime Minister travel to Balmoral (undertaking an official visit to the UK) where he again felt it appropriate to speak at length about the matter with the Queen, and who he said after having made it abundantly clear that Australia's position was to seriously seek complete indapendance, that Her Majesty's reaction was one of a reluctant (yet understanding) acceptance and went on to say "I think I need a stiff drink now" to which the PM replied "make that two".

I just thought that said a lot about how the issue has affected Elizabeth on a personal level. Evidently, and although the Queen has long stated her support and continued affection and admiration for Australia and her peoples' should we become a republic or othewise, it would be an occasion which would sadden her and not that that is any reason not to address the issue (not that it inspires much enthusiasm at the current time) but upon hearing that I was rather touched to learn that that was infact her reaction.
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  #338  
Old 04-28-2011, 12:02 PM
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I would love to see this Doco, MR. I hope someone uploads it on youtube or something.
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  #339  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:20 PM
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The British royal family has underlined Australia's importance to the Commonwealth with the Queen summoning Prime Minister Julia Gillard for a private chat during the royal wedding day.

Gillard handed a royal audience

Quote:
Up to a million people were estimated to have lined the parade route with even the Queen dropping her guard following the outpouring of love for the monarchy.

"It is amazing," she chirped after returning to Buckingham Palace following the wedding ceremony.
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  #340  
Old 04-30-2011, 10:24 PM
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The documentary 1st half of last Thursday's Q&A was a triumph of inellectual honesty. The good,the bad and the ugly of Australia's intelligentsia assembled as the panel in front of a studio audience of Australia's top secondary school debators for the discussion afterwards.

In the documentary, one of Australia's top monarchists, Justice Mr Michael Kirby used my term of "rebels" to describe the rebels.

Clarence House banned an Austrliam comic outfit from ever using any footage of The Wedding. This has caused a muffled hissey fit amonst Australia's intelligentsia as expressed by the panel.

One of our monarchist leaders, the former Prime Minister Mr John Howard denounced that comic outfit on national television for its abusive, bullying practices.

Clarence House banning that outfit shows it is rock solid in commitment for The Duchess in her anti-bullying campgain.
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