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  #181  
Old 05-31-2009, 05:31 AM
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The report is to report in June and could easily suggest a plebiscite next year as seen in this paper last month.

Politicians 'standing in the way of Australian republic vote' - Telegraph

Rudd promised a vote during the last election campaign and it would be something to take everyone's mind off the economy - if on the same day as the federal election.


There is also talk of a private members bill by Bob Brown in the Senate to bring on a plebiscite.

If either major party allows a consience vote on that issue then the plebisicite will go ahead.
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  #182  
Old 05-31-2009, 05:47 AM
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But both leaders have stated quite categorically that they would not push for a republic during the lifetime of the Queen. Yes Rudd did state during the last election campaign that he would push for a republic vote, but once he was elected it changed to 'not in his first term'. So that then pushes it to 2011. Since then we had the 2020 Summit and the government had chosen not to go ahead with the republic recommendation, other recommendations they will work on.

Plus the economic situation would make pushing for a republic seen as frivolous,( when people are in dire economic straits, the model for a Head of Government isn't exactly going to help them much! Money could be much better spent) last republic campaign cost the country millions of dollars. Republicans and monarchists both received funding from the tax payer to fund their campaigns. Not the mention the cost of the Constitutional Convention to give recommendations on what model to have.

While there are some politicians who would push for a republic at the moment that is not reflected in their leadership or their party priorities. ( non-Australians Bob Brown is a member of a minor party, the Green Party)

So the Senate could recommend a vote, but then if the government choses not to go ahead ( as it chose not to go ahead with the 2020 Summit recommendations), there are more important priorities that the government ( and opposition) have stated they want to focus on, Australians voting on a republic isn't one of them)
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  #183  
Old 05-31-2009, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The main reason I don't see her coming is her age and the attitude of the Commonwealth government.
As long as the Queen is healthy and able, I think we'll see her continue flying. And sometimes quite a distance at that.

Granted, Australia is one of the furtherest destinations HM could travel, but she is in wonderful health, and has all her facaulties about her; especially when considering many her age are resolved to an early "retirement". Elizabeth herself has given no clear indication she would not again visit, and though I cannot be certain, I was sure Buckingham Palace dismissed this speculation around the time of her last visit.

I still believe we'll again see Elizabeth R visit these shores. Statistics and polls aside.
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  #184  
Old 05-31-2009, 05:36 PM
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But both leaders have stated quite categorically that they would not push for a republic during the lifetime of the Queen...
The article I posted was from last month and nothing since.

They article clearly says that the report from the 2020 thing is to make its final report in June.

The next federal election is in 2010 not 2011 (we have three year federal terms.)

Rudd promised a referendum on 4 year terms and a plebiscite on the republic. Both would cost a lot less if attached to a federal election next year as most of the cost is employing staff, hiring halls etc but if all of that is a one off expense for the election and the referenda the cost falls massively.

We simply can't wait until some indeterminant date in the future to determine our future direction and we don't know when the Queen will die.

She could die tomorrow - the does the republic come onto the agenda or she could live for another 20 years and we have to wait. That sort of position is not a way to move a country forward.

If the Senate approves Bob Brown's vote it must go to the House of Representatives. Legislation in this country can start in either house unless it is the money bills. A free vote by all members would see it pass and it is perfectly possible that Rudd and/or Turnbull might very well allow that to take the pressure for insituting the vote away from one of the major parties.

At this point in time we need some certainty about the future and a simple 'Do you want Australia to be a republic?' question would at least clear up that side of things. We can then take 10 years to sort out the details and set up a start date, which could be on the Queen's death the GG automatically becomes the President with an election, or whatever, to follow. That gives us certainty rather than waiting and having a King Charles who knows that despite the initial declaration it won't last long.
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  #185  
Old 05-31-2009, 07:26 PM
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At this point in time we need some certainty about the future and a simple 'Do you want Australia to be a republic?' question would at least clear up that side of things. We can then take 10 years to sort out the details and set up a start date, which could be on the Queen's death the GG automatically becomes the President with an election, or whatever, to follow. That gives us certainty rather than waiting and having a King Charles who knows that despite the initial declaration it won't last long.
I tend to agree. We need certainty. Having the settlement of our affairs depend on how long the Queen lives is not satisfactory. We should take a stand and resolve the issue now.

I like the idea of it being decided that on HM's death the GG automatically becomes President with the formal change of system to follow, but I'm not sure that's possible, and if it is I don't think it would be simple to achieve. There would still be a lot of work to be done and detail to sort out and agree upon and amendments to be made to the Constitution, and if you're going to amend the Constitution you really only want to be doing that once. So perhaps a simple "yes", or "no" referendum at the next election with the nuts and bolts referendum at the following one, and we keep our fingers crossed for HM's health in the meantime.
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  #186  
Old 05-31-2009, 09:22 PM
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At the time of the Queen's Golden Jubilee, the prediction among some was that it would be her last trip here. Well, her second trip since then is coming up soon.

I think that it's most likely that you'll see your Queen again, and I hope that you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
As long as the Queen is healthy and able, I think we'll see her continue flying. And sometimes quite a distance at that.


I still believe we'll again see Elizabeth R visit these shores. Statistics and polls aside.
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  #187  
Old 06-01-2009, 01:56 AM
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My idea is that the nuts and bolts are worked out before the Queen dies with the GG automatically becoming President instead of Charles becoming King and then proceed to hold an election (or whatever we agree to) to chose the true first President of the Republic of Australia.

I think I will send this idea to the PM and Opposition Leader for their 'suggestion box'.
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  #188  
Old 06-01-2009, 03:24 AM
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So perhaps a simple "yes", or "no" referendum at the next election with the nuts and bolts referendum at the following one, and we keep our fingers crossed for HM's health in the meantime.
I agree. We need to know whether or not a republic is really as inevitable as everyone says. I don't think it is - everytime the Australia people have been asked they always say no.
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  #189  
Old 06-01-2009, 04:02 AM
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I agree. We need to know whether or not a republic is really as inevitable as everyone says. I don't think it is - everytime the Australia people have been asked they always say no.

The Australian people have only been asked once in any true poll and it wasn't that far from getting up - 55% No to 45% Yes.

Virtually everyone agrees that the reason it was defeated was the model not the concept. The idea that the parliamentarians select the President rather the preferred method of directly elected President.

There have been many unofficial polls that would indicate overwhelming support for a republic but it is the form of that republic that is the issue.

That is why a plebiscite asking straight out - Do you want Australia to be a republic? would be a revealing vote because until that fact is absolutely clear the country won't get any further towards a republic.
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  #190  
Old 06-10-2009, 06:15 AM
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Maybe there's a reason why republicans always squander opportunities to state their case: Not even they are prepared to admit that a republic would be an expensive and pointless rebranding of the status quo that no one has any great desire to see.
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  #191  
Old 06-10-2009, 06:55 AM
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Maybe there's a reason why republicans always squander opportunities to state their case: Not even they are prepared to admit that a republic would be an expensive and pointless rebranding of the status quo that no one has any great desire to see.
Very well put RoyalistRiley. That would be the main reason people wouldn't break with us, because it would be too expensive.
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  #192  
Old 08-28-2009, 02:01 AM
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That would be the main reason people wouldn't break with us, because it would be too expensive
Breaking with you? You may be surprised by what I'm about to say......but Australia is not a part of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and so cannot discontinue governance from something it isn't a part of to begin with.

Australia is a sovereign nation with our own head of state.

And as for being too expensive? I personally doubt that would be the reason to hold off from disestablishing the Australian monarchy.
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  #193  
Old 08-28-2009, 05:58 AM
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What are the big-ticket expenses going to be? Yes, there'll be lots of new stationery and stuff like that, but we already have nice big houses for the President to live in. He/she will need staff, but the G-G already has some staff. Depends on what sort of republic we have I suppose, but I don't see huge expenses looming because of the change.
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  #194  
Old 08-28-2009, 06:04 AM
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What are the big-ticket expenses going to be? Yes, there'll be lots of new stationery and stuff like that, but we already have nice big houses for the President to live in. He/she will need staff, but the G-G already has some staff. Depends on what sort of republic we have I suppose, but I don't see huge expenses looming because of the change.

The big ticket item would be the election expenses for all the candidates whether by direct election or whatever there will be expenses associated with making the decision.

I doubt if Australians would accept a Republican model where the PM chooses the President as he now chooses the GG so there will be campaigning expenses and election expenses.

We would probably expect a higher profile for the President as well thus increasing travel and security expenses to make sure that Australians see their President out and about.
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  #195  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:06 PM
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Breaking with you? You may be surprised by what I'm about to say......but Australia is not a part of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and so cannot discontinue governance from something it isn't a part of to begin with.

Australia is a sovereign nation with our own head of state.
I can not see why Australia does not break with the British altogether. The British get nothing from the association, nor I imagine do the Australians.
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  #196  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:16 PM
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I think that any form of republic should be on the basis that the Head of State (President) is elected by the people - one should never trust parliamentarians, MP's or politicians - give them an inch and they'll take a mile! The Head of State of any nation should represent all the people and not be affiliated with a particular political party representing only some of the people.
I am all in favour of referendums and the question being asked should be threefold - 1) Are you in favour of Australia becoming a republic
2) If Australia becomes a republic, would you like to vote to choose a Head of State
3) If Australia becomes a republic, would you like the Government to choose a Head of State.
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  #197  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:06 PM
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I can not see why Australia does not break with the British altogether. The British get nothing from the association, nor I imagine do the Australians.
But we did break with the British. It's an entirely different ball game.

Apart from the considered bilateral relations and the many common values shared between the two, Australia is otherwise dissimilar to Great Britain.

The only 'binding' ties being this country's colonial founding, our shared love of competitive sports and that we share the same lady as our respective head of state (though it may have been the latter to which you refer?)
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  #198  
Old 08-28-2009, 04:36 PM
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It was indeed HM I was talking about, but also the right to a visa, either because they hold UK citizenship or on an ancestry claim.
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  #199  
Old 08-28-2009, 05:32 PM
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I think that any form of republic should be on the basis that the Head of State (President) is elected by the people - one should never trust parliamentarians, MP's or politicians - give them an inch and they'll take a mile! The Head of State of any nation should represent all the people and not be affiliated with a particular political party representing only some of the people.
I am all in favour of referendums and the question being asked should be threefold - 1) Are you in favour of Australia becoming a republic
2) If Australia becomes a republic, would you like to vote to choose a Head of State
3) If Australia becomes a republic, would you like the Government to choose a Head of State.

Once we have answers to these questions then we would have to have further referenda questions as the question has to actually refer to the re-wording of the constitution.

These questions above are non-binding questions on the government as only ones that change the wording of the constitution itself are binding.

After the government gets a definitive answer to the plebiscite (to use the correct technical term for a non-binding vote) that Australia wants to become a republic then there will need to be at least one conference to determine the form of republic and the wording of the constitution to bring that about for that question to be put to the people. If the people reject that form of republic then the process will start again but first we need a vote directly on 'Do you want Australia to become a republic?' and I do hope we get that vote out of the way soon. Until that is confirmed but the majority the country is just standing still.

If they wait until the present Queen dies to ask that question it could be a couple of years or more before we get a form of republic agree to by a majority of the population AND a majority of the states. A simple vote of 50%+1 isn't enough in Australia. It also has to have 4 of the 6 states record a Yes vote.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:17 PM
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I had reached the end of my post, re-read and thought...I wonder if that's what Skydragon was referring too...haha. I get there in the end!

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It was indeed HM I was talking about, but also the right to a visa, either because they hold UK citizenship or on an ancestry claim.
Though wouldn't this be applicable to more countries than just Australia? A broader issue which would require the systems revision as a whole and not on a select basis?
You're right that neither Australia nor Great Britain should benefit at any great length from it. It would seem to me more a personal gain on an indavidual basis.
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