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  #141  
Old 08-22-2015, 02:20 AM
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I saw that photo just a couple of minutes ago, and it just made me so sad thinking about what might have been. It was a bittersweet photo, meant well by whomever did it. Honestly, I liked it. I think Diana would have been a good grandmother to those babies and they would be lucky to have her.
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  #142  
Old 08-24-2015, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
And I look at that photo and see people who were raised not to show personal feelings in public... Not showing personal feelings in public.

If she had rushed to him and grabbed him in a giant hug, press at the time would have speculated about whether a woman who so clearly preferred to be a mother could handle spending time away from her family.

There is literally no winning there.
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"Preferred to be a mother"? Would the press really have speculated in that fashion about a woman who had just spent five months away from her children?
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Sorry can't agree with you mothers hugged and loved their children back then. It has always been a sad photo and I remember my mother telling me about it and saying how her and her friends were shocked at her leaving her children for so long and then greet him like that. In fact she made excuses for his behavior later on because he didn't have a loving mother. ( her words )
Yes, they expected no less of HM than they would from a King and so, because travel was faster even than in her father's early reign, the Queen was expected to tour the Commonwealth and basically act as a King.

Did they require more from the Queen? You bet your booties! You have to remember that at that time even some senior members of parliament and Peers (who treated their own daughters as featherbrained), were engaged in maneuvers to bring back dear old David back as Regent when HM father was obvious near death, regardless of the fact that Elizabeth was an adult. More than a few wanted her to fail.

They thought women didn't have the intelligence or temperament to carry such a load. They were there to run the house (servants of course) and grace the table with the family jewels when required. They weren't terribly bright (no university for the majority, just finishing school) and were all destined to be wives.

Were Elizabeth's first few years harder? I believe so. IMO they conveniently overlooked their own history, namely the Reign of both Elizabeth I and Victoria, not to mention a few, more than decorative, consorts.

I don't see anyone thinking less of Philip because he didn't act as a normal, emotional "mother" at the same time as Elizabeth was acting like a King or normal "father" of those times. Funny that.

It all comes down to context and we cannot apply the societal mores of the noughties to the 1950's.
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  #143  
Old 08-24-2015, 10:47 PM
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Yes, they expected no less of HM than they would from a King and so, because travel was faster even than in her father's early reign, the Queen was expected to tour the Commonwealth and basically act as a King.

Did they require more from the Queen? You bet your booties! You have to remember that at that time even some senior members of parliament and Peers (who treated their own daughters as featherbrained), were engaged in maneuvers to bring back dear old David back as Regent when HM father was obvious near death, regardless of the fact that Elizabeth was an adult. More than a few wanted her to fail.

They thought women didn't have the intelligence or temperament to carry such a load. They were there to run the house (servants of course) and grace the table with the family jewels when required. They weren't terribly bright (no university for the majority, just finishing school) and were all destined to be wives.

Were Elizabeth's first few years harder? I believe so. IMO they conveniently overlooked their own history, namely the Reign of both Elizabeth I and Victoria, not to mention a few, more than decorative, consorts.

I don't see anyone thinking less of Philip because he didn't act as a normal, emotional "mother" at the same time as Elizabeth was acting like a King or normal "father" of those times. Funny that.

It all comes down to context and we cannot apply the societal mores of the noughties to the 1950's.
Exactly. William talked about that in an interview, how she was a young woman in a mans world and how she had to work even harden than a man would have had to, just to be accepted.
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  #144  
Old 08-24-2015, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Exactly. William talked about that in an interview, how she was a young woman in a mans world and how she had to work even harden than a man would have had to, just to be accepted.
And that's exactly what I meant with my post about how the press would have speculated had she shown obvious emotion at being reunited with her children- there would have been sexist speculation about whether she could handle being Queen and being a mother at the same time. (A standard that's rarely applied to men even now, and certainly wasn't back then- kids were seen as almost solely a woman's job)

I think she didn't show emotion in that moment because she was still in front of the press and doing her job- not because she was actually a cold or bad mother.
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  #145  
Old 08-24-2015, 11:37 PM
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And I think that is exactly the reason why HM is giving Catherine time to be a Mother.
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  #146  
Old 08-25-2015, 12:15 AM
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Thank you! I always loathed how Elizabeth was written off as cold and heartless mother after this scene.
And wow I didn't knew about this plot..
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  #147  
Old 08-25-2015, 11:30 AM
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Another thing to remember about this time is that in the aristocratic and noble families, it was more the rule than not that children should be seen and not heard. Many parents had little or no part in the upbringing of their children and it was left to governesses and nannies.

Since being involved here at TRF and reading the threads, there have been pictures that have been posted of HM and her children in very warm and loving interactions. Just the presentation that Charles gave during his mom's Diamond Jubilee shows a very loving and warm mother.
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  #148  
Old 08-25-2015, 06:38 PM
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Re all the excuses for the Queens cold and formal greeting with her son after 6 months away. Why didn't she meet him in a private setting ? How any mother could not want to throw their arms around their child is beyond me. I am not even going start on PP.


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  #149  
Old 08-25-2015, 06:57 PM
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Because travel was slow and liners leaving or arriving back was a big deal. It was an event in itself and let's be honest, long before she disembarked, Prince Charles like any boy of his age, was looking at a beautiful ship come in.

I'm not sure I understand your insistence that HM was a cold mother, and old family photos seem to say something different, but that's what this board is for.
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  #150  
Old 08-25-2015, 07:09 PM
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The more I've thought about this, the more I'm leaning towards the belief that HM, The Queen was greeting her son and being in Queen mode, it was never too young to start Charles off on the ways and means of protocol when out and about in public. He wasn't that much older than when he sat in a crowded Westminster Abbey and watched his mother being crowned Queen.

From what we've seen from private family pictures and videos that have made their way into the public domain, there were a lot of fun times as a family and a closeness that that most families share. One would only have to look at Charles' face as he presented the early years in the Diamond Jubilee presentation he put together to realize what fond memories he did have from growing up.

Was the Queen cold? I don't believe so. Was the Queen proper and dignified when in the public eye and in "Queen mode"? Most certainly.
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  #151  
Old 08-25-2015, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The more I've thought about this, the more I'm leaning towards the belief that HM, The Queen was greeting her son and being in Queen mode, it was never too young to start Charles off on the ways and means of protocol when out and about in public. He wasn't that much older than when he sat in a crowded Westminster Abbey and watched his mother being crowned Queen.



From what we've seen from private family pictures and videos that have made their way into the public domain, there were a lot of fun times as a family and a closeness that that most families share. One would only have to look at Charles' face as he presented the early years in the Diamond Jubilee presentation he put together to realize what fond memories he did have from growing up.



Was the Queen cold? I don't believe so. Was the Queen proper and dignified when in the public eye and in "Queen mode"? Most certainly.
When I first got interested in the BRF in my teens, I was under the impression that Her Majesty was distant, and had no clue how to show emotion. However, as I got older, and did more research, I realized just how wrong I was. It takes a very disciplined person to keep emotions in check, especially when the instinct tells one to do otherwise. I'm sure HM would have loved to giver her little son a hug, but she was in her 'work' mode, so she couldn't just switch it off. I'm sure in private she gave him all the hugs that she missed during her time away. I loved the images and footage we saw during Diamond Jubilee. They showed a family that loved being together, just like most families. The parents knew how to have fun, and the kids were happy. We also need to remember that every person needs to be loved in a different way, and sometimes a parent shows love in a way that doesn't meet the child's needs. It doesn't mean the child is not loved. It just means that both parties need to make some adjustments. Her Majesty, and Prince Philip did the best they could with what they were given. That's all anyone can ask.


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  #152  
Old 08-26-2015, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Because travel was slow and liners leaving or arriving back was a big deal. It was an event in itself and let's be honest, long before she disembarked, Prince Charles like any boy of his age, was looking at a beautiful ship come in.



I'm not sure I understand your insistence that HM was a cold mother, and old family photos seem to say something different, but that's what this board is for.

He might have been looking at a ship but to say that was more important than his mother ! Yes we can disagree here.


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  #153  
Old 08-26-2015, 07:56 AM
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I reproduce this, Page 691, 692 of Shawcross's biography of the Queen Mother, without comment, except to say that I believe the Queen and Prince Philip had parental attitudes which were prevalent in upperclass circles before the war, but were slowly changing by the 1950's. Charles was five and a half in mid 1954, Anne was nearly four.

'In early March 1954 the Queen wrote from Melbourne (she and Philip had been on an antipodean Commonwealth tour.) She expressed her excitement to her mother that she would see her children three weeks earlier than originally planned.

Britannia, the new royal yacht, was sailing to the Mediterranean to pick up the Queen and Prince Philip. The children (Charles and Anne) would be on board. Elizabeth was sure they would have changed a lot in the past six months; she was also concerned that they might not recognise their parents.

Her mother (who had been looking after them) reassured her, with a gentle hint that it was important to try to remember what it was like to be five or six years old. 'One really felt deeply about things and you may find Charles much older in a very endearing way. He is intensely affectionate and loves you and Philip most tenderly- I am sure that he will always be a very loving and enjoyable child to you both.'

The reunion finally took place in Tobruk, on board the Britannia. 'The children are enchanting and it is so wonderful to be with them again,' wrote Elizabeth to her mother.

When she and Philip came aboard both children 'gravely offered us their hands....partly I suppose because they were somewhat overcome by the fact that we were really there and partly because they have met so many new people recently! However, the ice broke very quickly and we have been subjected to a very energetic routine and innumerable questions which have left us gasping!'
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  #154  
Old 08-26-2015, 08:05 AM
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The Queen with her children and grandchildren. There are also many pictures of her with Charles, but I didn't find them.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...2_2724333b.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...0325066798.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...0325200928.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...b_2847760k.jpg

http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/wp-...rth-family.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...84_634x438.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo...t97io1_400.jpg

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam...ge-gallery.jpg

https://behomeblog.files.wordpress.c...y_353x4701.jpg

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/phot...03-477-500.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...7260b13a29.jpg

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...en_401363b.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/...DM_468x547.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt...z8jvo1_500.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...e_1581319i.jpg

http://mylusciouslife.com/wp-content...e%20andrew.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...fe0fb177cd.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...4_2415983b.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...732879faff.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d915fb1e2b.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...eb9a9ffa74.jpg

http://images.amcnetworks.com/bbcame...l-Family-6.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...98_634x400.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...55_634x509.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...eb34d2c658.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...59e00a3b3e.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...56_634x354.jpg

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/arti...-354789199.jpg
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  #155  
Old 08-26-2015, 08:20 AM
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From 1:32








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  #156  
Old 08-26-2015, 09:14 AM
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Prince Charles paid tribute to the Queen on the occasion of her Golden Jubilee.
From 8:10


Prince Charles paid tribute to the Queen on the occasion of her 80th birthday in a message recorded at Birkhall in Scotland. He speaks about she being away for her tours, and him trying to speak with her in the telephone.
Birthday Message Queen Elizabeth II | Video | C-SPAN.org

Prince Charles paid tribute to the Queen on the occasion of her Diamond Jubilee.
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  #157  
Old 08-26-2015, 10:34 AM
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ROYAL NORWAY your job is fantastic.
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  #158  
Old 08-26-2015, 11:46 AM
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ROYAL NORWAY, thank you for posting all the pictures and clips. I think my favorite ones are from Harry's Christening, and from Balmoral, where Her Majesty is keeping Eugenie company as the older kids go riding. Very loving grandmother, who enjoys her grandkids. It's not hard to believe that she was a loving parent to her children when they were young, especially after those clips.


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  #159  
Old 08-26-2015, 01:22 PM
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And another thanks from me, ROYAL NORWAY, for your hard work in posting all these great photos and videos. I think they prove the speculation that HM wasn't a good mother to her children when they were small wrong. As someone else said upthread, at the time "children were seen and not heard". Aristocratic and royal children also rarely saw their parents. Some children only saw their parents for an hour a day before dinner and they spent the rest of their life with their nanny/governess and then at boarding school before they became an adult and could fend for themselves.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:34 PM
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Case in point - Robert Hardy. He very much had that childhood- his parents loved him, but he says it wasn't the kind of love he needed. But he says it taught him how to treat his own children, and I don't think he'd have quite the same lovely way with children. So big lemonade of lemons.
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