The Queen and Canada; Residences, Governor General, etc...

[Sean.~]

=~*~Humera~*~]I must say I was glad the PM chose a woman. Not only do they bring a certain glamour to the job, they seem to be better at reaching out to people, thats not to say a man couldnt do the same if he wanted to.

Indeed they can. Vanier and Michner were two of the best and most respected GGs we ever had. In any case, I think the whole way the GG is appointed needs to be overhauled. It shouldn't just be up to the PM.

I dont look at her as Quebecer or think about the GG in regional terms.

You may not, however, her appointment was, to a significant extent, political. It is important to recognize that.

Although I think she will do fine, I would have preferred a Canadian born appointee (ideally an aboriginal person for a change) with a more illustrious political/diplomatic or even military background. There are many in these fields who also,IMO "reflect our modern, inclusive society". Oh well, that's life.

[Sean.~]

Originally Posted by Squidgy

I think one of the advantages of choosing a governor general with a background in broadcasting is that they excel at the art of public speaking. It was always a pleasure to hear Adrianne Clarkson speak with poetic eloquence and expression - such a nice change from the graceless drivel we are used to getting from our honourable members of Parliament. And judging from Ms. Jean's speech on Tuesday, it looks like, that at least in the area of public speaking, she has the ability to perhaps even surpass the bar that Ms. Clarkson had set so high.

Exellence in public speaking is not, of course, limited to the broadcasting world. And by no means should we limit our selection of GGs to broadcasters (I know that's not what you're saying).

Most sr. politicians are excellent public speakers (they have to be, lol), and, you have to put their commentaries or "drivel" into the context of party politics. Ineed, there are numerous current and former politicians, civil servants, heads of NGO organizations, etc. who are excellent speakers. AFIC, the office of GG should be reserved for those who posses charisma, political savy, diplomatic skills, and have achieved excellence in their field while being of notable service to the country. A little known CBC francophone journalist just doesn't meet this criteria. Now Peter Mansbridge would be another story. :-)

[Humera]

Originally Posted by Sean.~

Jean Sauve isn't counted as a Westerner despite her being born in SK. She identified with Quebec, and allegedly harboured sovreignist sentiments. Hnatytyshan was a former Conservative cabinet minister (take that as you will ;-)). With respect to Schryer, many don't consider Manitoba as a part of the West per se.

In any case, to date the criterion hasn't been whether the appointee came from the 'right' part of the country, but rather as to whether s/he was anglaphone or francaphone. You're not from the West and thus most likely do not understand why Westerners feel so allienated. The reasons are complicated and many -- and beyond the scope of this board. With regards to the issue of GG, it will suffice to say that a large segment of the population is tired of what they perceive (whether rightly or wrongly -- I'm not getting into that) as a constant pandering to the Quebec element. This latest appointment (given Ms. Jean's alleged political sentiments) merely adds to that.

I guess its the same as how many westerners perceive the east. My point is that if you're talking about a GG from that geographical area then we've had representation, its not like nobody from Alberta or the prairies was ever GG (regardless of their political views). Again, keep in mind the fact that we only started having Canadian GGs after the 50s. I'd give it more time.
Also I may not be from the "west" but you shouldnt assume I dont get the alienation thing. Thats nothing new and while im aware of the reasons behind it I didnt see it fit to get into that here and now.
If any one should complain it should be BC, (which, as I heard recently, doenst want to be lumped into the "western" category either. So that just leaves Alberta?) the atlantic, and the north.
But I get the pandering to Quebec part. Many feel that the province does nothing but complain and gets what it wants. I dont have to live in Alberta to get that. We Ontarians dont live in a hole you know. Most of us do know whats going on in the rest of the country.
My point is if people out west are so fed up with Quebec they shouldnt take it out on Jean. Raking up her alleged past political beliefs accomplishes nothing. I choose to judge her based on what she said in her speech. Her work will speak for itself.

[Sean.~]

I guess its the same as how many westerners perceive the east. My point is that if you're talking about a GG from that geographical area then we've had representation, its not like nobody from Alberta or the prairies was ever GG (regardless of their political views). Again, keep in mind the fact that we only started having Canadian GGs after the 50s. I'd give it more time.

Yes, I'm well aware of how long we've had Canadian GGs for. That's not the point. The point is that successive governments have claimed that they will address the problem of Western allienation, but never really do so. There is something always more pressing in Ontario or Quebec, or so it is perceived.
Mr. Martin made a firm committment to Westerners during the last election to *really* deal with this problem. In the eyes of many Westerners, naming a Western GG --or at least not a Quebecor with questionable loyalties -- would have been one of the steps he could have taken. His move is seen by many as trying to co-opt Quebecors with separatist sympathies.

Also I may not be from the "west" but you shouldnt assume I dont get the alienation thing. Thats nothing new and while im aware of the reasons behind it I didnt see it fit to get into that here and now.

I'm not assuming anything. Although you may be aware that it exists and its ostensible reasons, you couldn't possibly know all of the dynamics of it. You have to live it to really understand and "get" the psychology of it, as well as the impact it has on the people.

If any one should complain it should be BC, (which, as I heard recently, doenst want to be lumped into the "western" category either. So that just leaves Alberta?) the atlantic, and the north.

Well, I am from BC and British Columbians do consider themselves Westerners. Indeed, any map will indicate that you don't get any more West than we do :-)). That's why the Reform and Alliance parties have been so big in this province. It is a part of Western allienation.

But I get the pandering to Quebec part. Many feel that the province does nothing but complain and gets what it wants. I dont have to live in Alberta to get that. We Ontarians dont live in a hole you know. Most of us do know whats going on in the rest of the country.

Your last claim is highly questionable, IMO. The more educated or news junkies, yes, but IME the average person isn't really all that well informed on (or interested in) the events (even significant ones) across the country.Most are only concerned with local and regional happenings or things that affect them directly.

My point is if people out west are so fed up with Quebec they shouldnt take it out on Jean. Raking up her alleged past political beliefs accomplishes nothing. I choose to judge her based on what she said in her speech. Her work will speak for itself.

They're not taking it out on her per se. It's the whole system (although I hold that she does not possess the criteria required). And, unfortunately, her politics and past political affiliations do matter. After all, she is occupying the highest office in the country -- a country that the separatists want to break-up. It just doesn't sit well with more than a few people. Let's face it, she was a controversial choice.

[Humera]

Originally Posted by Sean.~

I'm not assuming anything. Although you may be aware that it exists and its ostensible reasons, you couldn't possibly know all of the dynamics of it. You have to live it to really understand and "get" the psychology of it, as well as the impact it has on the people.
Well, I am from BC and British Columbians do consider themselves Westerners. Indeed, any map will indicate that you don't get any more West than we do.

Well I could say the same about what westerners claim about the east. They would have to live in Quebec to know why many of them feel just as alienated. I have issues with how they perceive and what they say about Ontario and Quebec too but thats a different issue.
What I was referring to about BC not wanting to be lumped with the rest of the west wasn't in geographic terms. It was based on a statement made recently by the BC government regarding something that at the moment has completely gone out of my head. Maybe once I get some sleep I'll recall what it was. But I also meant to say that politically anyway BC and Alberta (also the prairies) are seen as quite different in Ontario where many tend to associate the west with conservatism (ie. Alberta)

Your last claim is highly questionable, IMO. The more educated or news junkies, yes, but IME the average person isn't really all that well informed on (or interested in) the events (even significant ones) across the country.Most are only concerned with local and regional happenings or things that affect them directly.

There is some truth to that. Though I dont agree entirely.

They're not taking it out on her per se. It's the whole system (although I hold that she does not possess the criteria required). And, unfortunately, her politics and past political affiliations do matter. After all, she is occupying the highest office in the country -- a country that the separatists want to break-up. It just doesn't sit well with more than a few people. Let's face it, she was a controversial choice.

Maybe people should make up their minds. They either dont want her because she's a Quebecker, or because of her alleged past beliefs, or because they wanted someone from their region, or because Paul Martin appointed her. Most likely its a combination of all or some of the above. She is the GG, however, and I'd prefer to giver her the benefit of the doubt. So would, it seems, some western and conservative commentators from I've seen in the media.
Its ironic though. If you look at the reaction to Mme. Jean's installation speech, the unhappiest people have been the Bloc. Gilles Duceppe and some of the other separatist commentators have come across as nothing but bitter and disappointed. How do westerners explain that?
It also makes me think of the those who were questioning her loyalty (ie her French citizenship) Because at the same time that was going on she was writing to the French government telling them she wanted to renounce her citizenship, long before last weekend when the process was completed and the fact was announced.
In the end I dont think she can do anything to satisfy her staunchest critics. Adrienne Clarkson had some of those herself from beginning to end.

[Humera]

Originally Posted by Sean.~

I would have preferred a Canadian born appointee (ideally an aboriginal person for a change) with a more illustrious political/diplomatic or even military background. There are many in these fields who also,IMO "reflect our modern, inclusive society". Oh well, that's life.

I have no problem with that. But there's nothing wrong with choosing a refugee either. Infact from what I've noticed in the media, a lot of immigrants feel the significance of this appointment. The hundreds of thousands who choose Canada as a home every year should feel that all their hard work, their contributions, can one day take them places. This is a segment of our population thats growing with each passing year and needs to be acknowledged as well. So two in a row isnt bad.

[altagrace]

I think she is great! Canada is a rare country where immigrants are truly embraced and can get every opportunity.
As a canadian of haitian origin myself- i am so proud. I can also tell you from experience that I always felt integrated here and I was never discriminated against.
Generally speaking canadians judge people by how much they contribute to the country (work etc) and their wilingness to adapt and blend in.

Hooray Canada!!


Can anyone post more pictures of the evening gown or provide a link?

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by Von Schlesian

Speaking of your list of Governors-General, the next one I'd love to see is Christopher Plummer CC

OOOOH that would be lovely. never thought of him!

[Duchess]

To me it doesn't matter where the GG is from, aboriginal, eastern canada, westerner, refugee or immigrant as long as they represent canada in the best possible way. I have a hard time with this Quebec issue and the western alienation issue. This is best country in the world (not to insult other countries but I am canadian) and there's room for everyone and we should be proud of our heritage no matter what the culture or language.

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by altagrace

I think she is great! Canada is a rare country where immigrants are truly embraced and can get every opportunity.
As a canadian of haitian origin myself- i am so proud. I can also tell you from experience that I always felt integrated here and I was never discriminated against.
Generally speaking canadians judge people by how much they contribute to the country (work etc) and their wilingness to adapt and blend in.

I think the choice of Michaelle Jean is a unique choice and I think Paul Martin made a good pick in choosing her as our Governor General.

I think she sets an excellent example of all that can be achieved in Canada even if you are not Canadian-born. She is something that new and future immigrants can aspire to (not that everyone will be Canada's next GG, but that it's possible). And if something like that is possible, than anything in our country is.

I saw a piece on the news with the protestors at Michaelle Jean's GG ceremony and I was disheartened to see all the protest. Much of the protest seemed to be unreasonable (to me). There was the very unfortunate protestors who were against her because of her race and that she had a husband who is of a different (racial) background than her -- what century are we living in again?! That she had a daughter and was a single parent. That she refused to swear on a Bible.

I think some of the issues were reasonable to expect opposition to, such as the separatist matter, but some of these other issues seemed so archaic to be up in arms about.

In the end, I think she will serve our country well. (Unless she finds a way to spend more money than Adrienne Clarkson. ) She is educated, intelligent, appears to be compassionate and sympathetic, and I think she will bring a lot to Rideau Hall.

[Princess BellyFlop]

Originally Posted by Alexandria

That she had a daughter and was a single parent.

Not that it would matter if she had been born out of wedlock but Marie-Eden was adopted by Michaelle a few yas ago. I recall a report in the magazine «Madame au foyer» showing the two of them, Marie-Eden was about 12-18 months, and Michaelle was explaining why she wanted to choose a little Haitian orphan and give her a chance in life. At the time, I didn't even knew or realized that Michaelle was probably in her early 40s, she looked so young.

Originally Posted by Alexandria

That she refused to swear on a Bible.

Interesting point. On the positive side, she might be taking out this christian religious symbol so we Canadians we finally separate the religion from the law/government in order to be the integrated society that we aspire to be. Hard to say for me but if we prefer that religion has to be a private choice, it has to be for everybody.

[Princess BellyFlop]

It's fun to chat with other fellow Canadians on this thread. As probably the only Quebecer on this board, at least the only French-speaking one, I find it interesting that we can exhange in a civilised matter on topics that keep our politicians going and going in circles for decades. Also it's kind of hard to voice your attachment to Canada where I live... snif snif snif.

[Duchess]

princessbellyflop i totally agree with you. it's wonderful to be able to share opinions about our country and it's traditions with each other. our coutry is so rich with culture - and the opportunities for everyone are endless. thank goodness for canada.

[altagrace]

Hello Princess Belly Flop!! (cute name)
Je suis sure qu'il y a d'autres francophones qui sont membres de ce forum. I am one of them!!
You're right- Great discussions! I was so glad when I discovered this site.

Happy posting!

[Sean.~]

Humera~*~]Well I could say the same about what westerners claim about the east. They would have to live in Quebec to know why many of them feel just as alienated. I have issues with how they perceive and what they say about Ontario and Quebec too but thats a different issue.

No disagreement from me. Most don't know or don't understand why Quebecors often feel they way they do, especially since they *seem* to get what they want, and are able to hold the country hostage at will (that's the perception, I'm not saying that is always the reality). As I said previously, it is because most people are not interested or can't be bothered to learn historical specificities (or don't have the time or the know-how or the open mind, etc.) Others, like myself, are well versed with Quebec and its people, but we are in the minority. Most people just see what they believe is the federal government constantly pandering to Quebec, when we can't even get equal representation or senate reform (both are huge issues for Westerners). They don't look beyond that and analyze the reasons.

What I was referring to about BC not wanting to be lumped with the rest of the west wasn't in geographic terms. It was based on a statement made recently by the BC government regarding something that at the moment has completely gone out of my head. Maybe once I get some sleep I'll recall what it was. But I also meant to say that politically anyway BC and Alberta (also the prairies) are seen as quite different in Ontario where many tend to associate the west with conservatism (ie. Alberta)

You deleted the last portion of my post. Conservatism is alive and well in BC, particularly in non-urban areas (even some urban areas are frightningly right-wing). Moreover, "Conservatism" is quite popular insofar as British Columbians have been voting for the Western born, right wing Reform/Alliance/Conservative party as a way of voicing their feelings of alienation. I mean, one just has to look at who we've been electing for well over a decade now.

Maybe people should make up their minds. They either dont want her because she's a Quebecker, or because of her alleged past beliefs, or because they wanted someone from their region, or because Paul Martin appointed her. Most likely its a combination of all or some of the above.

Yes, it is all or at least a combination of a few of these things. Personally, I liked her on the CBC, but believe that she is undeserving of the GG post for reasons I've already articulated.

She is the GG, however, and I'd prefer to giver her the benefit of the doubt. So would, it seems, some western and conservative commentators from I've seen in the media.
Its ironic though. If you look at the reaction to Mme. Jean's installation speech, the unhappiest people have been the Bloc. Gilles Duceppe and some of the other separatist commentators have come across as nothing but bitter and disappointed. How do westerners explain that?

Personally, I don't put much stalk in speeches. It's actions that count, and, we will have to wait and see in that regard. With respect to your question, it is because they (the Bloc et. al.) are afraid that those who may have had separatists sentiments (particularly in immigrant and minority communities in Quebec) are going to abandon the 'cause'. I thought that was clear.

[Sean.~]

I think the choice of Michaelle Jean is a unique choice and I think Paul Martin made a good pick in choosing her as our Governor General.

I think she sets an excellent example of all that can be achieved in Canada even if you are not Canadian-born. She is something that new and future immigrants can aspire to (not that everyone will be Canada's next GG, but that it's possible). And if something like that is possible, than anything in our country is.

I don't disagree, but IMO there were/are other immigrants who have made more substantive contributions to Canada and are more qualified and/or more deserving. But that's just my position.

I saw a piece on the news with the protestors at Michaelle Jean's GG ceremony and I was disheartened to see all the protest. Much of the protest seemed to be unreasonable (to me). There was the very unfortunate protestors who were against her because of her race and that she had a husband who is of a different (racial) background than her -- what century are we living in again?! That she had a daughter and was a single parent. That she refused to swear on a Bible.

I agree with you here. Some of the protesters were unreasonable. My criticisms, however, have nothing to do with her race, preference of mate, or religious choices (I'm personally glad that she didn't swear on the Bible if that isn't what she believes in).

[Humera]

Originally Posted by Sean.~

Conservatism is alive and well in BC, particularly in non-urban areas (even some urban areas are frightningly right-wing). Moreover, "Conservatism" is quite popular insofar as British Columbians have been voting for the Western born, right wing Reform/Alliance/Conservative party as a way of voicing their feelings of alienation. I mean, one just has to look at who we've been electing for well over a decade now.

without going too much into that, my point was regarding what our (Ontarians/easterners') perception is. And most of us see Alberta as the most conservative part of Canada (re: gay marriage etc)
Overall, BC is seen as far more liberal (not necessarily in the political sense)
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/inde...em/itemID/9103

[Humera]

Originally Posted by Duchess

To me it doesn't matter where the GG is from, aboriginal, eastern canada, westerner, refugee or immigrant as long as they represent canada in the best possible way. I have a hard time with this Quebec issue and the western alienation issue. This is best country in the world (not to insult other countries but I am canadian) and there's room for everyone and we should be proud of our heritage no matter what the culture or language.

my sentiments exactly:)

[Reina]

Wow. You canadians have gotten away w/ so much on this thread. How nauseating it is to hear so much of what is going on in canada when it is not related to real royalty!