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  #41  
Old 06-17-2011, 04:45 PM
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Ann Lyon is a Lecturer in Law at Plymouth Law School, Devon.

Amongst her publications is:

"For He is an English Man: The unforeseen consequences of Princess Sophia's Naturalisation Act 1705"
Statute Law Review, col. 20 1999, pp.17-84
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  #42  
Old 06-18-2011, 05:06 PM
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Wouldn't Philip's uncle Prince George of Greece (the husband of Princess Marie Bonaparte) be ahead of him in line of succession? I recall seeing pictures of him with the Mountbatten family at the coronation in 1953.
George husband of Maria Bonaparte born in 1869, died way before the time mentioned above. The George II who was King of Greece after the refenrendum brought back the monarchy was son of King Constantine and brother of King Paul.
At the time the Prince Philip was planning his engagement to the Princess Elizabeth, his conversion from the G.O faith and his request to obtain the British citizenship the ones in line were Prince Paul, Prince Constantine and Prince Philip.
George II divorced his wife Elizabeth of Romania the year the monarchy was restored and had no children.
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  #43  
Old 06-18-2011, 05:54 PM
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Prince George (b. 1869, son of King George I and uncle of both King George II and Prince Philip) died in 1957, so he was still alive at the time of both Philip and Elizabeth's wedding and the coronation.
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  #44  
Old 06-18-2011, 06:05 PM
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Prince George (b. 1869, son of King George I and uncle of both King George II and Prince Philip) died in 1957, so he was still alive at the time of both Philip and Elizabeth's wedding and the coronation.
My mistake! I am sorry I killed him before his time.

According to my documents on the Greek lineage the Crown was inherited by Constantine I as first son of King George and was then worn by all his sons (George II, no issue) Alexandros and Pavlos.
Constantine's brothers George (Bonaparte's husband) Nicholas, Andreas and Christopher came in line after Pavlos and his son Constantine the 2nd.
By the time we talk about Christopher had died (1940) and Andreas although saved by Venizelos firing squad died in 1945. Therefore his son Philip came after Pavlos and Constantine.
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  #45  
Old 06-18-2011, 06:21 PM
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Prince George, being one of Prince Andreas' older brothers, came before Andreas and his descendants in the line of succession; therefore after Pavlos and Constantine in the line of succession was Prince George, then Andreas and Philip.
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  #46  
Old 06-19-2011, 12:13 PM
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McAfan. I knew I read this so I found the book that the information came from.
Prince Philip, his secret life by John Parker,page 90
Now I have to go back and find out what disqualified P George from the succession line.
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  #47  
Old 12-10-2012, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
I believe the Duke of Edinburgh remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark...
Philip renounced his right of succession to the Greek throne and relinquished his title as Prince of Greece and Denmark when he naturalized to British citizenship as Lt. Philip Mountbatten, RN.
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  #48  
Old 12-10-2012, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Philip renounced his right of succession to the Greek throne and relinquished his title as Prince of Greece and Denmark when he naturalized to British citizenship as Lt. Philip Mountbatten, RN.

Can you provide proof? Garter says he didn't and there is no written evidence.
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  #49  
Old 12-10-2012, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
Most people believe Prince Philip did not renounce either his succession rights or his princely titles...
What do you have to say to this?
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  #50  
Old 12-10-2012, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Philip renounced his right of succession to the Greek throne and relinquished his title as Prince of Greece and Denmark when he naturalized to British citizenship as Lt. Philip Mountbatten, RN.
Garter says he did not renounce his titles

By letters patent of Nov. 19, 1947 Lt Sir Philip Mountbatten was granted the style of Royal Highness, and he was created Duke of Edinburgh the following day. He was in the anomalous position of being a Royal Highness but not a Prince, although the normal association of the two styles led to some confusion on the matter. Garter stated that "I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here." (Garter, 19 Dec 1947, LCO 6/3559).
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  #51  
Old 12-10-2012, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post

Can you provide proof? Garter says he didn't and there is no written evidence.
The matter is discussed extensively in Hugo Vicker's biography of Princess Alice, Philip's mother, which included correspondence from the Mountbatten Archives and interviews with The Duke as well.
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  #52  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
The matter is discussed extensively in Hugo Vicker's biography of Princess Alice, Philip's mother, which included correspondence from the Mountbatten Archives and interviews with The Duke as well.
Royal Styles and Titles of Great Britain

Okay thanks. Are these official government documents? Because Garter says they don't exist

I just don't understand why Sir ALGAR HOWARD, K.C.V.O., C.B., M.C Garter Principal King of Arms, Chief herald of England and Wales says the Duke is a Prince of Greece and Denmark

By letters patent of Nov. 19, 1947 Lt Sir Philip Mountbatten was granted the style of Royal Highness, and he was created Duke of Edinburgh the following day. He was in the anomalous position of being a Royal Highness but not a Prince, although the normal association of the two styles led to some confusion on the matter. Garter stated that "I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here." (Garter, 19 Dec 1947, LCO 6/3559).


Most people believe Prince Philip did not renounce either his succession rights or his princely titles. They believe that since there isn't any documentary proof showing Prince Philip renounced his titles or his rights these events did not occur. Their argument rests on the fact that no one has been able to cite the text of the renunciation, the date it was executed, the date it became effective, or even the clause in the House laws of the Royal House of Greece permitting a Prince to renounce. (Prince Philip is the only Greek prince who is ever said to have renounced his rights and his titles.) ***They view it as a case in which Prince Philip simply stopped using his Greek and Danish titles and that he never formally relinquished them.*** (Foreign rules and regulation such as British Home Office naturalization procedures did not have any effect on Prince Philip's title or his style of HRH as a Prince of Greece. As such, those who put forth these arguments say that he, his children and male-line grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Greece and Denmark, in addition to any other titles they may hold.)

Denmark
United Kingdom:
Interesting Frederick and William are 6 generations ancesters from Christian IX of Denmark

Letters Patent 19 Nov 1947

FROM
Sir ALGAR HOWARD, K.C.V.O., C.B., M.C, Garter Principal King of Arms.

Queen Victoria Street
LONDON, E.C.4.

l9th December 1947.

Hon. Sir Albert Napier KCB. House of Lords.

My dear Napier,

You might have seen the enclosed two letters in the "Times" concerning the title of Royal Highness.

I also enclose a draft of a letter which Wollaston had intended to send to the "Times" but did not as it was forestalled in part by the letter from Mr. Croome.

There is I think a general idea that the Duke by virtue of his H.R.H. has become a Prince of the United Kingdom, but in fact I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here.


We might still send this letter to the "Times" if circumstances warrant it, but in any case I thought you might like to see it before it goes.

Yours sincerely,

Alan Howard
Garter.
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  #53  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:40 AM
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I'll have to review the book, but I believe there is a letter to George VI from George II of Greece confirming Philip would renounce his right of succession to the Greek throne in order to naturalize to British citizenship. His title as Prince of Greece & Denmark would, in any case, be of no standing in the UK unless recognized by The Sovereign with a Royal Warrant.
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  #54  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
Can you provide proof? Garter says he didn't and there is no written evidence.
Whatever the status of his titles in Greece, when you become a citizen of the Uk any foreign titles legally go out the window. Indeed there is some suggestion that once having become a UK citizen you resume use of your foreign titles your UK citizenship could be revoked although I doubt that has ever happened.
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  #55  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:50 AM
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***They view it as a case in which Prince Philip simply stopped using his Greek and Danish titles and that he never formally relinquished them.*** (Foreign rules and regulation such as British Home Office naturalization procedures did not have any effect on Prince Philip's title or his style of HRH as a Prince of Greece.

Philip was already naturalised
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  #56  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:58 AM
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Well as I said what ever the Greeks think about his titles, once he became a citizen of the UK he was no longer entitled to legally use those titles in the UK, that is simply the law of the land. Legal use of foreign titles in the UK requires a Royal Warrant and they have not been granted since 1932.
When Princess Katherine married and became a British subject she was granted the style of Lady Katherine with the rank of a dukes daughter even though in Greece she remained a princess.

"Since 1932, no more licences have been issued; as for naturalization applicants, their solicitor was informed that "if your client becomes a British subject, his (her) foreign title will not receive official recognition in this country and that in accordance with the established practice it will be omitted from the certificate, if granted. I am to request that your client, or you on his (her) behalf, will specifically acknowledge his (her) acceptance of this position." A variant of this formula is still in use by the Home Office today."
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  #57  
Old 12-10-2012, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Well as I said what ever the Greeks think about his titles, once he became a citizen of the UK he was no longer entitled to legally use those titles in the UK, that is simply the law of the"
Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark is a British subject under the Sophia Naturalization Act 1705 and didn't have to renounce anything. He was both a Prince of Greece and Denmark and a British subject, If Philip didn't have British citizenship than you would be correct but he was both a citizen and also a Prince of Greece and Denmark.

(Foreign rules and regulation such as British Home Office naturalization procedures did not have any effect on Prince Philip's title or his style of HRH as a Prince of Greece as he is a British subject

This is not the opinion of the Greeks but of the Garter King of Arms

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  #58  
Old 12-10-2012, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
...This is not the opinion of the Geeks but of the Garter King of Arms
And this is the opinion of the Royal Family, expressed via the British Monarchy's official website: "Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark in Corfu in 1921, but renounced his Royal title when he became a naturalised British subject in 1947, adopting his maternal grandfather’s surname of Mountbatten."
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  #59  
Old 12-10-2012, 02:35 AM
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And this is the opinion of the Royal Family, expressed via the British Monarchy's official website: "Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark in Corfu in 1921, but renounced his Royal title when he became a naturalised British subject in 1947, adopting his maternal grandfather’s surname of Mountbatten."
Where is the documentation that he renounced his Greek and Danish titles as opposed to deciding to just not use them?

Most people believe Prince Philip did not renounce either his succession rights or his princely titles. They believe that since there isn't any documentary proof showing Prince Philip renounced his titles or his rights these events did not occur. Their argument rests on the fact that no one has been able to cite the text of the renunciation, the date it was executed, the date it became effective, or even the clause in the House laws of the Royal House of Greece permitting a Prince to renounce. (Prince Philip is the only Greek prince who is ever said to have renounced his rights and his titles.) They view it as a case in which Prince Philip simply stopped using his Greek and Danish titles and that he never formally relinquished them. (Foreign rules and regulation such as British Home Office naturalization procedures did not have any effect on Prince Philip's title or his style of HRH as a Prince of Greece. As such, those who put forth these arguments say that he, his children and male-line grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Greece and Denmark, in addition to any other titles they may hold.
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  #60  
Old 12-10-2012, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
Where is the documentation that he renounced his Greek and Danish titles as opposed to deciding to just not use them?
Where is the proof he didn't?
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