Prince Philip's Former Greek Citizenship and Greek and Danish Titles

[Iluvbertie]

He didn't renounce his successsion rights totally. He agreed that his descendents would come below those of his younger brother's line.

I will take the British High Commission in Canberra's word on this - they sent out an information sheet on Prince Philip to their employees in 1947 and again in 1954 for their use when being asked questions by the general public about Philip and that information came from BP. It clearly stated that Philip was in line to both the Greek and Danish thrones as I have stated earlier - and the reason why as stated above.

I had those sheets for many years (as I stated in my earlier post) as my mother was an employee of the High Commission in 1947 and a friend of hers gave her copies from 1954 - the friend wasn't that interested in the royals and she knew that my mother was so she gave Mum all the information that was issued to High Commission employees in 1954.

For people who may not know the High Commission is the same as the Embassy but in Commonwealth countries we don't have Embassies with each other but High Commissions.

I will stick with the view given by Buckingham Palace - that Philip was in line to the Danish throne until 1953 - as was Charles.

 

[Renata4711]

Act for the Naturalisation of the Electress Sophia and the "issue of her body"

From the Home Office:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/nationalityinstructions/nisec2gensec/hanover(electresssophiaof)?view=Binary
.

 

[MARG]

For all the convoluted political manoeuvring I think Prince Philip's reason for relinquishing his citizenship and consequently his title, had more to do with his Naval aspirations than any other consideration.

Admittedly he had met a 14 year old princess who seemed bedazzled by him but, at the height of WWII I don't think he could have imagined a future as consort of the future Queen of England. He could however, see a stratospheric military career in the Royal Navy and had the talent and ambition to go far.

In the case of marrying Elizabeth, it is normal that he would have needed to become a British citizen. Maxima became a citizen of the Netherlands, Mary, of Denmark, etc. In some cases in also included a change of religion, in others merely a change of denomination.

 

[Kataryn]

Philip wanted a career in the Royal Navy, as a foreign subject he could only rise to a certain rank. Even before he and the Princess Elizabeth were an 'item' he let King George II of Greece know that he wanted to give up his Greek citizenship and George II allowed him to do so. (This was in 1943) With the war going on though all British Naturalisations were put on hold, so Philip had to wait. After the war ended King George II of Greece asked Philip to wait until the referendum in Greece on the monarchy being reinstated be held before Philip became a British citizen. (It wouldn't look all that good for the monarchist cause in Greece if one of its members wanted to give up their title!) The referendum in Greece was held in November 1946, the monarchy was reinstated and Philip became a British citizen in February 1947.

As a British citizen he no longer had a title and needed a surname so took that of his uncle Lord Mountbatten.

.

One should no forget that pre-WWII Greece was an anti-democratic and anti-communist country with the king as the nominal head but a head of the government which acted like a dictator. The country was very much modelled on Germany's example and when WWII started, Greece decided not to side with Britain and the Allies at first. Only when Italy declared War on Greece in 1940 and the German and Italians moved in sucessfully in 1941 Greece sided with the Allies (or needed them to help against Hitler and Mussolini). So back in 1939 it was not a good idea for a Greek prince and citizen to be an active soldier in the British army, against the position of his home country and in controversy to the political position of his family. Especially after WWII with a civil war going on in Greece and the knowledge that the Greek king tended to side with anti-democratic military forces. At that time the Greek monarchy was very much involved in politics and I guess Philip was not willing to be used as a pawn in the political games of his home-country.

But it's quite ironic (and sad) that his home country Greece was annexed by the German Nazis, that he fought against them risking his life for Britain and was still regarded as a "German hun" for the first years of his marriage.

As for his new surname Mountbatten: as neither his father and mother had surnames (the Greek and Danish Royals may belong to a dynasty, but they don't have a surname besides their geographic titles of Greece and Denmark, the same with the Battenbergs as long as they were German princes- and his mother had married when they were still German nobles) he followed the example of his grandfather, who, after relinquishing his German Battenberg-title took Mountbatten as family name and was granted the Milford Haven-peerage.

 

[Esmerelda]

For all the convoluted political manoeuvring I think Prince Philip's reason for relinquishing his citizenship and consequently his title, had more to do with his Naval aspirations than any other consideration.

Admittedly he had met a 14 year old princess who seemed bedazzled by him but, at the height of WWII I don't think he could have imagined a future as consort of the future Queen of England. He could however, see a stratospheric military career in the Royal Navy and had the talent and ambition to go far.

In the case of marrying Elizabeth, it is normal that he would have needed to become a British citizen. Maxima became a citizen of the Netherlands, Mary, of Denmark, etc. In some cases in also included a change of religion, in others merely a change of denomination.

He'd been in the navy for 8 years before he relinquished the title and citizenship in 1947. Admittedly, that was during the war. I saw a documentary which said that people didn't want a foreign Prince as a consort so they had to make him seem as English as possible (his upbringing, the fact he couldn't really speak Greek, war service). Also, the political situation in Greece was complicated at the time. I also read somewhere that he didn't actually have to go through all the bureaucracy after all as he is descended from Sophia of Hannover. He wouldn't be able to claim citizenship on those grounds nowadays, though.

 

[Charlotte1]

He'd been in the navy for 8 years before he relinquished the title and citizenship in 1947. Admittedly, that was during the war. I saw a documentary which said that people didn't want a foreign Prince as a consort so they had to make him seem as English as possible (his upbringing, the fact he couldn't really speak Greek, war service). Also, the political situation in Greece was complicated at the time. I also read somewhere that he didn't actually have to go through all the bureaucracy after all as he is descended from Sophia of Hannover. He wouldn't be able to claim citizenship on those grounds nowadays, though.

He had tried to become a British citizen earlier (in 1942 or 43) but not possible during the war and after the war was asked by the Greek King not to relinguish his Greek title until after the referendum in Greece on whether the monarchy should be reintroduced. Therefore the earliest Philip could relinquish his Greek title and become a British citizen was 1947.

 

[Viv]

I will stick with the view given by Buckingham Palace - that Philip was in line to the Danish throne until 1953 - as was Charles.

Well, even Brits can be wrong ! As it happened a few days ago when I read about author Philip Eade's problems in connection with writing a biography on Prince Philip. An aide at Buckingham Palace had corrected Eade that Philip's grand father (Vilhelm/Willy/King George) did not speak with a German accent. Interesting, because several historical accounts mention that it took two generations of Glücksburgs before the German accent disappeared.
A sad case of British Germanophobia, if you ask me!

Anyway: Back to Prince Philip and his succession rights: A Danish historical account of the Glücksburg dynasty* mentions that Prince Vilhelm had to relinquish his succession rights if he accepted the offer of the Greek throne! It does not say that he actually did give up his rights, because it was beoynd any doubt that he did.
And forgive me for repeating myself: It also states that King Christian IX insisted on the prince/princess of Denmark-style in order to justify a Danish passport should the Greek RF be detroned. In this way they would not be rendered stateless. This works to the day; the Greek RF are still on a Danish diplomatic passport - unless they have complied with the requirements of the Greek authorities and accquired Greek citizenship.

Again: Prince Philip was never in the line of succession to the Danish throne. Had he been, he would have been "Prince Philip to Denmark" according to Danish RF house rules. He only was a Prince AF Denmark.

* Huset Glücksburg by Bo Bramsen, Politiken Publishers 1975

Viv

 

[Odette]

In 1944 Prince Philip was anxious to obtain the British citizenship. First he had to change his religion from G.O and needed his cousin's permission. At that point P Philip was 3rd in line to the Greek throne if the family would return to Greece (After P Paul and P Constantine). Per Mountbatten the road was easy, all P Philip had to do was complete Form S (aliens who fought on Britain's side).
After Mountbatten's meeting with King George of Greece in Cairo, permission was given for P Philip to change his citizenship and religion.
Mountbatten was anxious for his nephew's affair to be settled and pave the path to his engagement with P Elizabeth.

 

[Thena]

Wouldn't Philip's uncle Prince George of Greece (the husband of Princess Marie Bonaparte) be ahead of him in line of succession? I recall seeing pictures of him with the Mountbatten family at the coronation in 1953.

 

[MAfan]

Yes, Prince George was indeed ahead of Andrew and Philip in the Greek line of succession; I can't recall if also George's son Peter was still in the line of succession (ahead of Andrew and Philip too) or if he had lost his succession rights as a consequence to his marriage in 1939.

 

[Renata4711]

Ann Lyon is a Lecturer in Law at Plymouth Law School, Devon.

Amongst her publications is:

"For He is an English Man: The unforeseen consequences of Princess Sophia's Naturalisation Act 1705"
Statute Law Review, col. 20 1999, pp.17-84

 

[Odette]

Wouldn't Philip's uncle Prince George of Greece (the husband of Princess Marie Bonaparte) be ahead of him in line of succession? I recall seeing pictures of him with the Mountbatten family at the coronation in 1953.

George husband of Maria Bonaparte born in 1869, died way before the time mentioned above. The George II who was King of Greece after the refenrendum brought back the monarchy was son of King Constantine and brother of King Paul.
At the time the Prince Philip was planning his engagement to the Princess Elizabeth, his conversion from the G.O faith and his request to obtain the British citizenship the ones in line were Prince Paul, Prince Constantine and Prince Philip.
George II divorced his wife Elizabeth of Romania the year the monarchy was restored and had no children.

 

[MAfan]

Prince George (b. 1869, son of King George I and uncle of both King George II and Prince Philip) died in 1957, so he was still alive at the time of both Philip and Elizabeth's wedding and the coronation.

 

[Odette]

Prince George (b. 1869, son of King George I and uncle of both King George II and Prince Philip) died in 1957, so he was still alive at the time of both Philip and Elizabeth's wedding and the coronation.

My mistake! I am sorry I killed him before his time.

According to my documents on the Greek lineage the Crown was inherited by Constantine I as first son of King George and was then worn by all his sons (George II, no issue) Alexandros and Pavlos.
Constantine's brothers George (Bonaparte's husband) Nicholas, Andreas and Christopher came in line after Pavlos and his son Constantine the 2nd.
By the time we talk about Christopher had died (1940) and Andreas although saved by Venizelos firing squad died in 1945. Therefore his son Philip came after Pavlos and Constantine.

 

[MAfan]

Prince George, being one of Prince Andreas' older brothers, came before Andreas and his descendants in the line of succession; therefore after Pavlos and Constantine in the line of succession was Prince George, then Andreas and Philip.

 

[Odette]

McAfan. I knew I read this so I found the book that the information came from.
Prince Philip, his secret life by John Parker,page 90
Now I have to go back and find out what disqualified P George from the succession line.

 

[branchg]

I believe the Duke of Edinburgh remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark...

Philip renounced his right of succession to the Greek throne and relinquished his title as Prince of Greece and Denmark when he naturalized to British citizenship as Lt. Philip Mountbatten, RN.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Philip renounced his right of succession to the Greek throne and relinquished his title as Prince of Greece and Denmark when he naturalized to British citizenship as Lt. Philip Mountbatten, RN.

Can you provide proof? Garter says he didn't and there is no written evidence.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Most people believe Prince Philip did not renounce either his succession rights or his princely titles...

What do you have to say to this?

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Philip renounced his right of succession to the Greek throne and relinquished his title as Prince of Greece and Denmark when he naturalized to British citizenship as Lt. Philip Mountbatten, RN.

Garter says he did not renounce his titles

By letters patent of Nov. 19, 1947 Lt Sir Philip Mountbatten was granted the style of Royal Highness, and he was created Duke of Edinburgh the following day. He was in the anomalous position of being a Royal Highness but not a Prince, although the normal association of the two styles led to some confusion on the matter. Garter stated that "I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here." (Garter, 19 Dec 1947, LCO 6/3559).

 

[branchg]

Can you provide proof? Garter says he didn't and there is no written evidence.

The matter is discussed extensively in Hugo Vicker's biography of Princess Alice, Philip's mother, which included correspondence from the Mountbatten Archives and interviews with The Duke as well.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

The matter is discussed extensively in Hugo Vicker's biography of Princess Alice, Philip's mother, which included correspondence from the Mountbatten Archives and interviews with The Duke as well.

Royal Styles and Titles of Great Britain

Okay thanks. Are these official government documents? Because Garter says they don't exist

I just don't understand why Sir ALGAR HOWARD, K.C.V.O., C.B., M.C Garter Principal King of Arms, Chief herald of England and Wales says the Duke is a Prince of Greece and Denmark

By letters patent of Nov. 19, 1947 Lt Sir Philip Mountbatten was granted the style of Royal Highness, and he was created Duke of Edinburgh the following day. He was in the anomalous position of being a Royal Highness but not a Prince, although the normal association of the two styles led to some confusion on the matter. Garter stated that "I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here." (Garter, 19 Dec 1947, LCO 6/3559).


Most people believe Prince Philip did not renounce either his succession rights or his princely titles. They believe that since there isn't any documentary proof showing Prince Philip renounced his titles or his rights these events did not occur. Their argument rests on the fact that no one has been able to cite the text of the renunciation, the date it was executed, the date it became effective, or even the clause in the House laws of the Royal House of Greece permitting a Prince to renounce. (Prince Philip is the only Greek prince who is ever said to have renounced his rights and his titles.) ***They view it as a case in which Prince Philip simply stopped using his Greek and Danish titles and that he never formally relinquished them.*** (Foreign rules and regulation such as British Home Office naturalization procedures did not have any effect on Prince Philip's title or his style of HRH as a Prince of Greece. As such, those who put forth these arguments say that he, his children and male-line grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Greece and Denmark, in addition to any other titles they may hold.)

Denmark

• Christian IX of Denmark
• Frederick VIII of Denmark
• Christian X of Denmark also king of Iceland
• Frederick IX of Denmark
• Margrethe II of Denmark
• CP Frederick of Denmark

United Kingdom:

• Christian IX of Denmark
• George I of Greece
• Prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark
• Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark
• Charles, Prince of Wales
• Prince William, Duke of Cambridge

Interesting Frederick and William are 6 generations ancesters from Christian IX of Denmark

Letters Patent 19 Nov 1947

FROM
Sir ALGAR HOWARD, K.C.V.O., C.B., M.C, Garter Principal King of Arms.

Queen Victoria Street
LONDON, E.C.4.

l9th December 1947.

Hon. Sir Albert Napier KCB. House of Lords.

My dear Napier,

You might have seen the enclosed two letters in the "Times" concerning the title of Royal Highness.

I also enclose a draft of a letter which Wollaston had intended to send to the "Times" but did not as it was forestalled in part by the letter from Mr. Croome.

There is I think a general idea that the Duke by virtue of his H.R.H. has become a Prince of the United Kingdom, but in fact I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here.

We might still send this letter to the "Times" if circumstances warrant it, but in any case I thought you might like to see it before it goes.

Yours sincerely,

Alan Howard
Garter.

 

[branchg]

I'll have to review the book, but I believe there is a letter to George VI from George II of Greece confirming Philip would renounce his right of succession to the Greek throne in order to naturalize to British citizenship. His title as Prince of Greece & Denmark would, in any case, be of no standing in the UK unless recognized by The Sovereign with a Royal Warrant.

 

[NGalitzine]

Can you provide proof? Garter says he didn't and there is no written evidence.

Whatever the status of his titles in Greece, when you become a citizen of the Uk any foreign titles legally go out the window. Indeed there is some suggestion that once having become a UK citizen you resume use of your foreign titles your UK citizenship could be revoked although I doubt that has ever happened.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

***They view it as a case in which Prince Philip simply stopped using his Greek and Danish titles and that he never formally relinquished them.*** (Foreign rules and regulation such as British Home Office naturalization procedures did not have any effect on Prince Philip's title or his style of HRH as a Prince of Greece.

Philip was already naturalised

 

[NGalitzine]

Well as I said what ever the Greeks think about his titles, once he became a citizen of the UK he was no longer entitled to legally use those titles in the UK, that is simply the law of the land. Legal use of foreign titles in the UK requires a Royal Warrant and they have not been granted since 1932.
When Princess Katherine married and became a British subject she was granted the style of Lady Katherine with the rank of a dukes daughter even though in Greece she remained a princess.

"Since 1932, no more licences have been issued; as for naturalization applicants, their solicitor was informed that "if your client becomes a British subject, his (her) foreign title will not receive official recognition in this country and that in accordance with the established practice it will be omitted from the certificate, if granted. I am to request that your client, or you on his (her) behalf, will specifically acknowledge his (her) acceptance of this position." A variant of this formula is still in use by the Home Office today."

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Well as I said what ever the Greeks think about his titles, once he became a citizen of the UK he was no longer entitled to legally use those titles in the UK, that is simply the law of the"

Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark is a British subject under the Sophia Naturalization Act 1705 and didn't have to renounce anything. He was both a Prince of Greece and Denmark and a British subject, If Philip didn't have British citizenship than you would be correct but he was both a citizen and also a Prince of Greece and Denmark.

(Foreign rules and regulation such as British Home Office naturalization procedures did not have any effect on Prince Philip's title or his style of HRH as a Prince of Greece as he is a British subject

This is not the opinion of the Greeks but of the Garter King of Arms

 

[Artemisia]

...This is not the opinion of the Geeks but of the Garter King of Arms

And this is the opinion of the Royal Family, expressed via the British Monarchy's official website: "Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark in Corfu in 1921, but renounced his Royal title when he became a naturalised British subject in 1947, adopting his maternal grandfather’s surname of Mountbatten."

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

And this is the opinion of the Royal Family, expressed via the British Monarchy's official website: "Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark in Corfu in 1921, but renounced his Royal title when he became a naturalised British subject in 1947, adopting his maternal grandfather’s surname of Mountbatten."

Where is the documentation that he renounced his Greek and Danish titles as opposed to deciding to just not use them?

Most people believe Prince Philip did not renounce either his succession rights or his princely titles. They believe that since there isn't any documentary proof showing Prince Philip renounced his titles or his rights these events did not occur. Their argument rests on the fact that no one has been able to cite the text of the renunciation, the date it was executed, the date it became effective, or even the clause in the House laws of the Royal House of Greece permitting a Prince to renounce. (Prince Philip is the only Greek prince who is ever said to have renounced his rights and his titles.) They view it as a case in which Prince Philip simply stopped using his Greek and Danish titles and that he never formally relinquished them. (Foreign rules and regulation such as British Home Office naturalization procedures did not have any effect on Prince Philip's title or his style of HRH as a Prince of Greece. As such, those who put forth these arguments say that he, his children and male-line grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Greece and Denmark, in addition to any other titles they may hold.

 

[Artemisia]

Where is the documentation that he renounced his Greek and Danish titles as opposed to deciding to just not use them?

Where is the proof he didn't?