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  #21  
Old 07-07-2010, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
The Sophia Naturalization Act was repealed in 1948. Only descendants born before then have any claim to British nationality under it.

If they hadn't repealed the act then Ernst wouldn't have realised that he was able to claim British citizenship as it brought to light the very fact that he was a British citizen. At least that is what I have read.
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  #22  
Old 07-08-2010, 05:19 AM
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Yes I read that in your original post.
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  #23  
Old 07-16-2010, 12:13 AM
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Isn't this the tradition for anyone that marries a future monarch? Queen Sophia of Greece become a catholic and left her Greek orthodox faith, Greek citizenship.
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  #24  
Old 07-16-2010, 12:55 AM
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Isn't this the tradition for anyone that marries a future monarch? Queen Sophia of Greece become a catholic and left her Greek orthodox faith, Greek citizenship.

No - in past years the spouse has been able to keep their nationality and religious beliefs so long as they are compatible - Sophia's Greek Orthodox faith isn't compatible with Roman Catholicism but say a German Princess married into the British Royal Family there would be no need to change from Lutheranism although most did do so some didn't.
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  #25  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:47 AM
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Philip didn't have to relinquish anything, he chose to give up his Greek citizenship and by becoming British he also lost his title of prince. No British citizen can hold a foreign title, this is something that was brought in as part of the 1917 changes to the Royal Family by George V.

Philip wanted a career in the Royal Navy, as a foreign subject he could only rise to a certain rank. Even before he and the Princess Elizabeth were an 'item' he let King George II of Greece know that he wanted to give up his Greek citizenship and George II allowed him to do so. (This was in 1943) With the war going on though all British Naturalisations were put on hold, so Philip had to wait. After the war ended King George II of Greece asked Philip to wait until the referendum in Greece on the monarchy being reinstated be held before Philip became a British citizen. (It wouldn't look all that good for the monarchist cause in Greece if one of its members wanted to give up their title!) The referendum in Greece was held in November 1946, the monarchy was reinstated and Philip became a British citizen in February 1947.

As a British citizen he no longer had a title and needed a surname so took that of his uncle Lord Mountbatten.

The court case that Ernst August of Hanover brought in the 1950s brought out the information that any descendent of Sophia the Electress was a British citizen, so Philip didn't really have to apply for citizenship. But it was a law that had long been forgotten by pretty much everyone until Ernst August used it to try and get his British citizenship.

British citizens cannot hold foreign royal titles so Philip's cousin Princess Katherine of Greece and Denmark when she married a British man would have been plain Mrs Richard Branham, but she asked King George VI to be given the style and title of the daughter of an Earl. So she became Lady Katherine Branham. Outside of the UK she was still Princess Katherine and was buried in Greece as Princess Katherine, Lady Branham.

Princess Marina became The Duchess of Kent when she married, she was no longer a princess in her own right, she was Princess George of Kent. After her son got married she asked the Queen if she could be called Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent, the Queen agreed just like she agreed that the widowed Duchess of Gloucester could be Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester. (Alice had never been a princess) They were not actually princesses in their own right, but allowed to use the title as a courtesy.

Philip also never renounced Greek Orthodoxism, he was baptised Greek Orthodox but raised Anglican. He attended British boarding schools and that was the religion practised there. He was confirmed Anglican and so became a member of the Anglican church. He did this as a teenager, again long before he began his relationship with Princess Elizabeth.
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  #26  
Old 08-13-2010, 03:49 PM
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... Philip's cousin Princess Katherine of Greece and Denmark when she married a British man would have been plain Mrs Richard Branham, but she asked King George VI to be given the style and title of the daughter of an Earl. So she became Lady Katherine Branham.
Typo: should read Lady Katherine Brandram.
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  #27  
Old 08-25-2010, 09:11 AM
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Princess Katherine dropped her Greek royal title when she married Major Brandram and became a British subject. George VI granted her the precedence and style of the daughter of a Duke and she became Lady Katherine Brandram in her own right.
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  #28  
Old 08-25-2010, 09:44 AM
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Princess Katherine dropped her Greek royal title when she married Major Brandram and became a British subject. George VI granted her the precedence and style of the daughter of a Duke and she became Lady Katherine Brandram in her own right.
Just to know, did Princess Katherine became automatically British due to her marriage to a British man (did the UK laws at that time permitted it) or she had to apply for a citizenship?
When it comes to Prince Philip renouncing his citizenship and title of Prince I find it logical to a certain point. If he had renounced his succesion rights, then Charles at birth would have been in the line of succession for three different crowns. It doesn't seem too right for a future British King I guess. Not to mention that he was raised mostly in Britain and Germany and had few things to connect him to Greece apart from his title andreligion. Anyway, I find it very interesting that until King Constantine was born he was practically very close to the Greek Crown: after Paul (whose daughter Sophia was not so high in the succession line then) came the old Prince George, his son Peter who never fathered children, Andrew and then Philip. No wonder King George II didn't want him to reliquish him his title before the referendum since ,after Peter's unsuitable marriage and the deaths of Andrew and Christopher, he was the only adult in line to the throne except for Paul.
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  #29  
Old 10-01-2010, 02:56 AM
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Also, I believe there was a civil war in Greece at the time and marrying a Greek Prince would have been seen as 'taking sides'. Though I'm not sure how much that had to do with Philip's decision.

There's quite a lot of information in this documentary:




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  #30  
Old 05-14-2011, 10:47 AM
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Prince Philip was never in the Danish line of succession

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
He lost his place in line to the Danish throne after the 1953 referendum that allowed women to inherit the throne.
.
My comment is overdue, but I hope that someone will 'pass by' these pages and pick up an essential fact:

Prince Philip was never in the Danish line of succession! King Georgios I, formerly Prince Vilhelm of Denmark renounced his succession rights after accepting the offer of the Greek throne in 1863, and it goes without saying that he renounced for his descendants as well!

I understand why some get confused about the ' of Greece and Denmark' title, and as things are these days the title ought to be abolished.
Originally the ' ...of Denmark' -part of the title was insisted upon by Vilhelm's father, King Christian IX. King Otto had just been booted out of Greece, and king Christian deemed that Vilhelm and his descendants should be entitled to a Danish passport should the Greek family be dethroned at some stage. The 'of Denmark'-title is basically a legal-dynastic technicality ensuring the connection to the Danish royal family.
Several Danish diplomatic passports have been issued tp Greek royalty since then!

Another technicality is the use of the Danish prepositions til (to) and af (of) in this respect:
All Danish princes/princesses in the line of succession are princes/princesses TIL Danmark. Those not in line of succession are princes/princesses AF Denmark.

This difference is not reflected in the English language, so that's why many believe that Philip was a Danish prince with succession right.

Now you know that he wasn't .. and why!

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  #31  
Old 05-14-2011, 08:15 PM
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He didn't renounce his successsion rights totally. He agreed that his descendents would come below those of his younger brother's line.

I will take the British High Commission in Canberra's word on this - they sent out an information sheet on Prince Philip to their employees in 1947 and again in 1954 for their use when being asked questions by the general public about Philip and that information came from BP. It clearly stated that Philip was in line to both the Greek and Danish thrones as I have stated earlier - and the reason why as stated above.

I had those sheets for many years (as I stated in my earlier post) as my mother was an employee of the High Commission in 1947 and a friend of hers gave her copies from 1954 - the friend wasn't that interested in the royals and she knew that my mother was so she gave Mum all the information that was issued to High Commission employees in 1954.

For people who may not know the High Commission is the same as the Embassy but in Commonwealth countries we don't have Embassies with each other but High Commissions.

I will stick with the view given by Buckingham Palace - that Philip was in line to the Danish throne until 1953 - as was Charles.
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  #32  
Old 05-29-2011, 07:12 AM
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Act for the Naturalisation of the Electress Sophia and the "issue of her body"

From the Home Office:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/nationalityinstructions/nisec2gensec/hanover(electresssophiaof)?view=Binary
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  #33  
Old 05-29-2011, 08:28 AM
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For all the convoluted political manoeuvring I think Prince Philip's reason for relinquishing his citizenship and consequently his title, had more to do with his Naval aspirations than any other consideration.

Admittedly he had met a 14 year old princess who seemed bedazzled by him but, at the height of WWII I don't think he could have imagined a future as consort of the future Queen of England. He could however, see a stratospheric military career in the Royal Navy and had the talent and ambition to go far.

In the case of marrying Elizabeth, it is normal that he would have needed to become a British citizen. Maxima became a citizen of the Netherlands, Mary, of Denmark, etc. In some cases in also included a change of religion, in others merely a change of denomination.
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  #34  
Old 05-29-2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post

Philip wanted a career in the Royal Navy, as a foreign subject he could only rise to a certain rank. Even before he and the Princess Elizabeth were an 'item' he let King George II of Greece know that he wanted to give up his Greek citizenship and George II allowed him to do so. (This was in 1943) With the war going on though all British Naturalisations were put on hold, so Philip had to wait. After the war ended King George II of Greece asked Philip to wait until the referendum in Greece on the monarchy being reinstated be held before Philip became a British citizen. (It wouldn't look all that good for the monarchist cause in Greece if one of its members wanted to give up their title!) The referendum in Greece was held in November 1946, the monarchy was reinstated and Philip became a British citizen in February 1947.

As a British citizen he no longer had a title and needed a surname so took that of his uncle Lord Mountbatten.

.
One should no forget that pre-WWII Greece was an anti-democratic and anti-communist country with the king as the nominal head but a head of the government which acted like a dictator. The country was very much modelled on Germany's example and when WWII started, Greece decided not to side with Britain and the Allies at first. Only when Italy declared War on Greece in 1940 and the German and Italians moved in sucessfully in 1941 Greece sided with the Allies (or needed them to help against Hitler and Mussolini). So back in 1939 it was not a good idea for a Greek prince and citizen to be an active soldier in the British army, against the position of his home country and in controversy to the political position of his family. Especially after WWII with a civil war going on in Greece and the knowledge that the Greek king tended to side with anti-democratic military forces. At that time the Greek monarchy was very much involved in politics and I guess Philip was not willing to be used as a pawn in the political games of his home-country.

But it's quite ironic (and sad) that his home country Greece was annexed by the German Nazis, that he fought against them risking his life for Britain and was still regarded as a "German hun" for the first years of his marriage.

As for his new surname Mountbatten: as neither his father and mother had surnames (the Greek and Danish Royals may belong to a dynasty, but they don't have a surname besides their geographic titles of Greece and Denmark, the same with the Battenbergs as long as they were German princes- and his mother had married when they were still German nobles) he followed the example of his grandfather, who, after relinquishing his German Battenberg-title took Mountbatten as family name and was granted the Milford Haven-peerage.
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  #35  
Old 05-29-2011, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG
For all the convoluted political manoeuvring I think Prince Philip's reason for relinquishing his citizenship and consequently his title, had more to do with his Naval aspirations than any other consideration.

Admittedly he had met a 14 year old princess who seemed bedazzled by him but, at the height of WWII I don't think he could have imagined a future as consort of the future Queen of England. He could however, see a stratospheric military career in the Royal Navy and had the talent and ambition to go far.

In the case of marrying Elizabeth, it is normal that he would have needed to become a British citizen. Maxima became a citizen of the Netherlands, Mary, of Denmark, etc. In some cases in also included a change of religion, in others merely a change of denomination.
He'd been in the navy for 8 years before he relinquished the title and citizenship in 1947. Admittedly, that was during the war. I saw a documentary which said that people didn't want a foreign Prince as a consort so they had to make him seem as English as possible (his upbringing, the fact he couldn't really speak Greek, war service). Also, the political situation in Greece was complicated at the time. I also read somewhere that he didn't actually have to go through all the bureaucracy after all as he is descended from Sophia of Hannover. He wouldn't be able to claim citizenship on those grounds nowadays, though.
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  #36  
Old 05-29-2011, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
He'd been in the navy for 8 years before he relinquished the title and citizenship in 1947. Admittedly, that was during the war. I saw a documentary which said that people didn't want a foreign Prince as a consort so they had to make him seem as English as possible (his upbringing, the fact he couldn't really speak Greek, war service). Also, the political situation in Greece was complicated at the time. I also read somewhere that he didn't actually have to go through all the bureaucracy after all as he is descended from Sophia of Hannover. He wouldn't be able to claim citizenship on those grounds nowadays, though.
He had tried to become a British citizen earlier (in 1942 or 43) but not possible during the war and after the war was asked by the Greek King not to relinguish his Greek title until after the referendum in Greece on whether the monarchy should be reintroduced. Therefore the earliest Philip could relinquish his Greek title and become a British citizen was 1947.
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  #37  
Old 06-17-2011, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I will stick with the view given by Buckingham Palace - that Philip was in line to the Danish throne until 1953 - as was Charles.
Well, even Brits can be wrong ! As it happened a few days ago when I read about author Philip Eade's problems in connection with writing a biography on Prince Philip. An aide at Buckingham Palace had corrected Eade that Philip's grand father (Vilhelm/Willy/King George) did not speak with a German accent. Interesting, because several historical accounts mention that it took two generations of Glücksburgs before the German accent disappeared.
A sad case of British Germanophobia, if you ask me!

Anyway: Back to Prince Philip and his succession rights: A Danish historical account of the Glücksburg dynasty* mentions that Prince Vilhelm had to relinquish his succession rights if he accepted the offer of the Greek throne! It does not say that he actually did give up his rights, because it was beoynd any doubt that he did.
And forgive me for repeating myself: It also states that King Christian IX insisted on the prince/princess of Denmark-style in order to justify a Danish passport should the Greek RF be detroned. In this way they would not be rendered stateless. This works to the day; the Greek RF are still on a Danish diplomatic passport - unless they have complied with the requirements of the Greek authorities and accquired Greek citizenship.

Again: Prince Philip was never in the line of succession to the Danish throne. Had he been, he would have been "Prince Philip to Denmark" according to Danish RF house rules. He only was a Prince AF Denmark.

* Huset Glücksburg by Bo Bramsen, Politiken Publishers 1975

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  #38  
Old 06-17-2011, 02:56 PM
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In 1944 Prince Philip was anxious to obtain the British citizenship. First he had to change his religion from G.O and needed his cousin's permission. At that point P Philip was 3rd in line to the Greek throne if the family would return to Greece (After P Paul and P Constantine). Per Mountbatten the road was easy, all P Philip had to do was complete Form S (aliens who fought on Britain's side).
After Mountbatten's meeting with King George of Greece in Cairo, permission was given for P Philip to change his citizenship and religion.
Mountbatten was anxious for his nephew's affair to be settled and pave the path to his engagement with P Elizabeth.
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  #39  
Old 06-17-2011, 03:09 PM
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Wouldn't Philip's uncle Prince George of Greece (the husband of Princess Marie Bonaparte) be ahead of him in line of succession? I recall seeing pictures of him with the Mountbatten family at the coronation in 1953.
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  #40  
Old 06-17-2011, 03:42 PM
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Yes, Prince George was indeed ahead of Andrew and Philip in the Greek line of succession; I can't recall if also George's son Peter was still in the line of succession (ahead of Andrew and Philip too) or if he had lost his succession rights as a consequence to his marriage in 1939.
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