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  #261  
Old 10-11-2015, 07:55 PM
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The Privy Council issues two kinds of orders. Orders in Council and Orders of Council.

In Council meaning Orders that have been approved at a meeting of the Privy Council personally by The Queen.

Orders in Council are usually Prerogative Orders made under the inherent power of the Crown to act on matters for which Parliament has not legislated.
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  #262  
Old 10-15-2015, 04:33 AM
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So now Jeremy Corbyn is threatening to use the State banquet to raise human rights abuses with Chinese leaders, unless he gets a meeting with them of his very own. If he doesn't he will hold his breath until he goes purple! Corbyn's wife has already turned down the invitation to attend.

Jeremy Corbyn threatens to use Buckingham Palace banquet to raise human rights issues with China | UK Politics | News | The Independent
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  #263  
Old 10-15-2015, 04:41 AM
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It is kind of strange that the Leader of the Opposition is not given information, which is nevertheless spread to 600 (!) Privy Councillors, because he is supposed to go down his knees and kiss the Queen's hand.

Try to to look at it: it is almost Putin-esque and not befitting a democracy that the democratically elected Leader of the Opposition, who has a strong personal conviction that the office of the head of state should not be hereditary, is barred from necessary information to do his parliamentary work. It is almost unimagineable in other countries on the Continent!
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  #264  
Old 10-15-2015, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is kind of strange that the Leader of the Opposition is not given information, which is nevertheless spread to 600 (!) Privy Councillors, because he is supposed to go down his knees and kiss the Queen's hand.

Try to to look at it: it is almost Putin-esque and not befitting a democracy that the democratically elected Leader of the Opposition, who has a strong personal conviction that the office of the head of state should not be hereditary, is barred from necessary information to do his parliamentary work. It is almost unimagineable in other countries on the Continent!
Not quite so strange when you consider that the 600 or so Privy Councillors have already sworn not divulge the information or use it to the detriment of the country's security.

All Mr Corbyn has to do it take the oath or the affirmation and if he doesn't want to kiss hands or kneel, he will have to let the Queen know in advance so she knows what to expect. Presumably he will have no objection to shaking her hand or would that be too deferential?

Indeed, Mr Corbyn does have a strong personal conviction against a hereditary head of state, but that is what we have at the moment here in the UK and he will have to put up with it. Common sense should tell him that we cannot become a republic and so change the constitutional laws and procedures for an hour or so just to make him happier while he takes his oath.
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  #265  
Old 10-15-2015, 06:16 AM
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He stood for an elected office knowing what he would be required to do if he won. When he won that position he makes it clear he wants the goal posts changed just for him. He basically therefore lied to his electorate by not telling them in advance that he wouldn't abide by the existing constitution and conventions of his country.
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  #266  
Old 10-15-2015, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
So now Jeremy Corbyn is threatening to use the State banquet to raise human rights abuses with Chinese leaders, unless he gets a meeting with them of his very own. If he doesn't he will hold his breath until he goes purple! Corbyn's wife has already turned down the invitation to attend.

Jeremy Corbyn threatens to use Buckingham Palace banquet to raise human rights issues with China | UK Politics | News | The Independent
Silly, silly man. Doesn't he know that advertising the dastardly plot to wreak havoc at a state banquet is a sure fire way to be removed from the guest list?

I don't know much about the man except for what I've been reading here lately and it seems to me that the guy is just a wee bit too big for his own britches and not too diplomatic nor wise.

Silly, silly man.
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  #267  
Old 10-15-2015, 06:28 AM
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The man is out of his depth. He went from backbench obscurity to leader and it doesn't look like it will end well for him.

Corbyn was majorly embarrassed in the Commons yesterday when 21 of his own MP's voted against him on a party vote.

He'll be lucky to survive long enough to become a Privy Councillor lol.
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  #268  
Old 10-15-2015, 06:42 AM
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It does not matter what our opinion of the person in question is. It matters that "confidential" information is spread over 600 (!) Privy Councillors but not to the Leader of the Opposition. It is the best plea for a review on the existence of such a body as the Privy Council.
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  #269  
Old 10-15-2015, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The man is out of his depth. He went from backbench obscurity to leader and it doesn't look like it will end well for him.

Corbyn was majorly embarrassed in the Commons yesterday when 21 of his own MP's voted against him on a party vote.

He'll be lucky to survive long enough to become a Privy Councillor lol.
I do feel for the man at times because it must be a tough transition from backbencher to leader.

It is ironic that the one person who would do their best to help and advise him or at least want to make him feel comfortable in his role is HM the Queen!
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  #270  
Old 10-17-2015, 10:56 PM
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Secret. Smug. Sinister: They've covered up torture, led us into an illegal war and are now placing the Press under state control. It's time to kill off the shadowy establishment mafia that is the Privy Council-
It's time to kill off the shadowy establishment mafia that is the Privy Council | Daily Mail Online
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  #271  
Old 10-17-2015, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Secret. Smug. Sinister: They've covered up torture, led us into an illegal war and are now placing the Press under state control. It's time to kill off the shadowy establishment mafia that is the Privy Council-
It's time to kill off the shadowy establishment mafia that is the Privy Council | Daily Mail Online
I see both advantages and disadvantages with the Privy Council, but this article is full of errors, and most other journalist in the fail hates Jeremy Corbyn for failing to attend his first Council.

Quote:
All this would not matter too much if these powers genuinely were in the hands of the Queen, a woman who has been universally trusted and loved during her long and magnificent reign.

But the Queen does not exercise any of her formal powers. She is obliged by Britain’s unwritten constitution to act only on the advice of her prime minister.
If these powers were in the hands of the Queen, then she had been a monarch with political power and the UK had not been a democracy. In my eyes, she had then been a dictator.
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  #272  
Old 10-18-2015, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Not quite so strange when you consider that the 600 or so Privy Councillors have already sworn not divulge the information or use it to the detriment of the country's security.

All Mr Corbyn has to do it take the oath or the affirmation and if he doesn't want to kiss hands or kneel, he will have to let the Queen know in advance so she knows what to expect. Presumably he will have no objection to shaking her hand or would that be too deferential?

Indeed, Mr Corbyn does have a strong personal conviction against a hereditary head of state, but that is what we have at the moment here in the UK and he will have to put up with it. Common sense should tell him that we cannot become a republic and so change the constitutional laws and procedures for an hour or so just to make him happier while he takes his oath.
I don't think he has a problem with swearing to keep secrets, but that he does have a problem with swearing allegiance to the Queen. Yes, he's already done that as a member of parliament, but maybe he is baulking at the extra terms of the Privy Councillors' oath. Or maybe he's just fed up with having to swear allegiance to the Queen rather than the country or parliament. Perhaps he's reached that stage some of us reach as we get older and decided that continuing to compromise his beliefs this way is no longer a palatable option.

Though there might be little chance of the UK becoming a republic, the country is still a constitutional monarchy, which means that it is parliament that rules the country, not the monarch. Why, then, need politicians and privy councillors and others have to swear allegiance to the monarch? Why can't they swear allegiance to the country? Saying that Corbyn should suck it up and just swear the oath or make the affirmation to bear true allegiance to an unelected head of state rather than the country belittles his convictions and also implies that people who share his convictions should not be able to have someone in parliament who share their views. If people who refuse to swear allegiance to the monarch can't take a seat in parliament, or be privy councillors, then these important roles are not available to all citizens. Atheists are catered to by being able to make an affirmation, but republicans who do not feel allegiance to the monarch are forced to either make themselves hypocrites by swearing or affirming something that is against their beliefs, or not take their place in parliament or the privy council.

If the main issue is being sworn to secrecy, is signing the Official Secrets Act an option available to Corbyn? Would it be acceptable to him if it were? Perhaps this is a possibility.
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  #273  
Old 11-07-2015, 06:59 AM
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Jeremy Corbyn will not have to kneel for the Queen when he is sworn into Privy Council next week - Telegraph
Quote:
Exclusive: Labour leader may still kiss Her Majesty's hand when he is sworn in as a member of the centuries-old institution at Buckingham Palace on Wednesday

A royal source said: “The Queen is not someone who stands on ceremony, she wants people to feel comfortable but the Privy Council is an important mechanism and that is why it is important that he is there.”
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  #274  
Old 11-10-2015, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
The Queen is head of the Privy Council and the body advises her as she carries out duties as head of state.

The council also provides administrative support for the leaders of the Commons and Lords and has responsibility for the affairs of 400 institutions, charities and companies incorporated by royal charter.

It has a judicial role as the court of final appeal for UK overseas territories and crown dependencies and for a number of Commonwealth countries.

The body - the oldest form of legislative assembly still functioning in the UK - dates from the time of the Norman kings when the monarch met in private - hence the description Privy - with a group of trusted counsellors who fulfilled the role the cabinet performs today.
Read more: Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to be sworn in to Privy Council « Express & Star
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  #275  
Old 12-19-2015, 03:33 AM
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Lobbying is of all times. Even Her Majesty The Queen herself will do lobbying, no matter if it is for the most understandable causes like "Prime Minister, I have concerns about the future of the Battersea Dogs & Cats Home" and already HM's concerns will be enough to send a signal through the machinery of state. That does not say that HM's pleasure is HM's command, this is 2015.... But this simply is lobbying too: use one's position to influence. Since all royals have a position in the highest society it is not so strange they are effective in lobbying and that is also the reason why charities like to have a member of the royal family connected to them.

That is also why people in despair, feeling not heard by the machinery of state and feeling trapped in a Kafka-esque situation write to the Queen: they hope that an evenual request for attention by Her Majesty can bring a solution (which it sometimes indeed does).

In the Netherlands people in a hopeless conflict with a department, or a municipality, or the Tax Revenue, often write to the King. The King's Cabinet will send a letter with the reply that the letter has been received in good order and has been sent to the responsible minister with the request to take the handling for his (her) responsibility and to inform the King. Via this way the letter comes directly to the top of the Department and passes the impenetrable layers of bureaucracy. Sometimes this indeed leads to a solution of long-standing stalemates.
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  #276  
Old 12-26-2015, 06:15 AM
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Can we please get rid of this myth that the Queen does not intervene in party politics & is politically neutral, because she does do so, but unlike her eldest son, she does it behind a smokescreen. E.g.after the general elections in May 2010 she requested that her Private Secretary demand from the political parties that they had to have come to a decision as to who was to form a coalition by the Monday following the election on Thursday – this has been published in diary of one of the politicians involved David Laws. This meant that the Liberal Democrats were never given time to investigate forming a coalition with the Labour Party and that the Conservatives were bound to be the major party in power for the next 5 years. The Queen would already have known that in 2012 her financial grant from the public purse was due for renegotiation and that the Conservative proposal was to ensure her finances were removed from the scrutiny of MPs in Parliament and instead she would be automatically given a percentage of the annual profits of the Crown Estate. Since 2013 this has resulted in the ‘Sovereign’s Grant’ increasing by 20% at a time when all other tax-payer funded civil servants got 0-1% maximum rise. The Sovereign’s Grant supports only the activities of the Queen, her husband and her 3 youngest children, not Prince Charles and his children who are dependent on the Duchy of Cornwall estates only for their support. Therefore, the supposedly ‘politically neutral’ Queen had a hell of a financially vested interest in ensuring that the Conservative party would be the majority party in power in 2012, which she did so by ensuring that the Liberal Democrats negotiations were curtailed by her demands. This is why I prefer Prince Charles’s honest method of putting his opinions across, which are not party political. Everybody knows where he stands on certain issues eg climate change, organic food, local communities being encouraged to have a say in local architecture and if you disagree with him then he accepts that you can disagree with him openly also. As a constitutional monarch of the future he is entitled to warn and advise his ministers, his ability to read confidential documents since the late 1970s helps him to do this more effectively than if he had been kept ignorant of all cabinet activities and documents since then.

Incidentally as a resident of a city whose planning regulations he has supposedly interfered with I can assure you this is rubbish. In Liverpool he has only ever intervened or ensured that some of his architectural charities have offered advice when local communities have requested it and in doing so he has not only helped save historic buildings from destruction but also promoted the best possibly practice in attractive modern architecture that has proved popular on all occasions.
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  #277  
Old 12-26-2015, 04:27 PM
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Could you provide solid evidence of anything you've said? I'm quite intrigued.
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  #278  
Old 12-26-2015, 07:40 PM
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I am as intrigued as you as well LumutQueen. But from what I had knowno by being neutral means don't interfering in areas of government such as elections, House of Commons, house of Lords, Municipal government but again the term is juxtaposed with word Head of States/Government which means in my knowledge of government means she is in charge of Affairs of the government and how it functions together with its health. If she as you had said interfere in the coalition maybe cause she fear in the House of Commons not doing its job.

Obviously laws past in Parliament either in the United Kingdom and its 15 realms have to go through proper consultation between Her, Prime Ministers and the realm representatives(Governor-Generals)
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  #279  
Old 12-26-2015, 08:15 PM
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THis might help re the forming of Governments From the Royal website:

"After a general election, the appointment of a Prime Minister is the prerogative of the Sovereign.

In appointing a Prime Minister, the Sovereign is guided by constitutional conventions. The main requirement is to find someone who can command the confidence of the House of Commons.

This is normally secured by appointing the leader of the party with an overall majority of seats in the Commons, but there could still be exceptional circumstances when The Queen might need to exercise discretion to ensure that her Government is carried on."

In 2010 the situation was that Gordon Brown didn't resign immediately although he didn't have a majority. Cameron was talking to the Liberals; the Liberals were talking to Conservatives and Labour. But the real problem is it was taking a long time - in effect no functioning Government.

Dialogue takes place between the Head of the Cabinet Office and the Queen's representative on these occasions - so the Cabinet Office was keeping her - as Head of State - informed on progress (or lack of it). In all I have read about it, the Head of Cabinet Office (Gus MCDonald at the time) was pressing all parties to sort out either a Coalition or minority Government. Its important to remember that we'd not had a coalition government before except in times of war). The Head of State is entitled to know and ask about timelines.

I don't think there was a plot. This is a woman who accepted, via a number of Governments including Conservative, going 20 years without any increase in Grant.

If there was a plot, it would have been front page news.
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  #280  
Old 12-26-2015, 08:16 PM
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Giving a timetable by which she wanted a government formed isn't 'interfering' so much as ensuring that there is actually a functioning government in place. It was announced quite early that she wanted the government to form before the start of the following week so that the government was in place rather than the uncertainty that having no government would entail. Had she not said anything then the wheeling and dealing could have gone on for weeks or even months and that would not have been good for the country. Her detractors will always see such a comment as her interfering rather than seeing it as actually doing her job.
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