If The Duke of Edinburgh outlived The Queen...


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I wonder if Prince Philip died before his wife, Charles and Andrew could forfeit their right to the Dukedom in favor of Edward.

This did happen I believe with the Spencers and Churchills, when the Earl of Spencer married the heiress of the Duke of Marlborough, the eldest son inherited the dukedom and the younger son inherited the earldom.
 
ysbel said:
I wonder if Prince Philip died before his wife, Charles and Andrew could forfeit their right to the Dukedom in favor of Edward.

This did happen I believe with the Spencers and Churchills, when the Earl of Spencer married the heiress of the Duke of Marlborough, the eldest son inherited the dukedom and the younger son inherited the earldom.

It is, I suppose theoretically possible for the four men in order of succession to that Dukedom ahead of Edward to each renouce their rights in order - i.e. Charles, William, Harry and then Andrew.


As it is possible to renouce a title with the precedent having been set in earlier decades then if the four of them agree then Edward could inherit but that has not been stated as the current intention which is based on the acceptance of the title by Charles on the death of his father.
 
HRH The Prince Philip enjoys precedence, place and honour next to The Sovereign per letters patent issued by The Queen in 1952. After her death, he would still take precedence ahead of all princes of the blood royal, including Prince William, unless Charles issued letters patent changing it, which is highly doubtful.
 
Camilla!

branchg said:
HRH The Prince Philip enjoys precedence, place and honour next to The Sovereign per letters patent issued by The Queen in 1952. After her death, he would still take precedence ahead of all princes of the blood royal, including Prince William, unless Charles issued letters patent changing it, which is highly doubtful.

You have forgotten Camilla who will -for sure- enjoy precedence, place and honour next to her spouse, the King and before all other members of the royal family!
 
ysbel said:
This really sounds like such a mess - you would have thought they would have thought of an easier way.

It is no mess. It is crystalclear. The Prince Philip's peerages are hereditary for his heirs-male.

That means Prince Philip's peerages (the Dukedom of Edinburgh, the Earldom of Merioneth and the Barony of Greenwich) are hereditary in this order:

1. HRH The Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, etc.
2. HRH Prince William of Wales
3. HRH Prince Henry of Wales
4. HRH The Prince Andrew, Duke of York, Earl of Inverness and Baron Killyleagh
5. HRH The Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex and Viscount Severn

You see that The Prince Edward is 'only' fifth and he does depend on the grace of his eldest brother to create him Duke of Edinburgh indeed. Charles will most likely do that indeed. But the whole discussion in this thread was that Edward would become Duke after his father's or mother's death and that is not true. Whatever way you look at it: it is His Gracious Majesty King Charles III who needs to have the pleasure to bestow a Dukedom to his youngest brother. No more, no less.
 
Last edited:
Henri M. said:
You have forgotten Camilla who will -for sure- enjoy precedence, place and honour next to her spouse, the King and before all other members of the royal family!

I haven't forgotten Camilla. As Queen, she would be first lady in the kingdom as the wife of the King. I was noting Philip's precedence would remain the same among the princes of the blood, barring a change from The King.
 
Henri M. said:
His Gracious Majesty King Charles III


I have a feeling he's going to be George VII. There is not a positive connotation associated with any King named Charles.


Upon the death of Elizabeth II, if Prince Charles keeps his given name he would become known as King Charles III. Prince Charles has however considered rejecting the title King Charles III when he accedes to the throne because of its associations with Britain's bloody past. The move away from Charles stems from its associations with Charles I, who was beheaded in 1649 following the English Civil War at the start of Oliver Cromwell's short-lived republic. The executed monarch's son, Charles II, spent 18 years in exile and returned to England in 1660 but was nicknamed "The Merry Monarch" because of his string of mistresses. Charles is also associated with the Catholic Bonnie Prince Charlie, an enduring Scottish romantic figure, who claimed the throne as Charles III (the very title Prince Charles would take) in the 18th century. The move would not be a first—three of the past six British monarchs chose regnal title different from their Christian name; for example, George VI was known as Prince Albert. The most discussed alternative has been George VII, in honour of Charles's grandfather.
 
I doubt Charles will become George VII. There is nothing wrong with King Charles III.
 
Henri M. said:
Prince Charles will inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh, the Earldom of Merioneth and the Barony of Greenwich, becoming the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh.

Prince Philip is the 6th Duke of Edinburgh so whoever gets the title (and it is likely that it will be Edward) will be the 7th Duke.
 
Gutsy said:
Wales as a Principality needs a "Prince": the fact it never was a kingdom is the reason it is the Welsh "Assembly" and not a "parliament"

Liechtenstein and Monaco are pricipalities and have parliaments. The reason Wales got an assembly rather than a parliament is because for centuries the English have always regarded it as a province of England rather than a country.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Iain said:
Prince Philip is the 6th Duke of Edinburgh so whoever gets the title (and it is likely that it will be Edward) will be the 7th Duke.

Philip is the 1st Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich. His peerages were created by George VI before his wedding to The Princess Elizabeth.
 
Iain said:
Prince Philip is the 6th Duke of Edinburgh so whoever gets the title (and it is likely that it will be Edward) will be the 7th Duke.

Prince Philip is the first Duke of Edinburgh of the current creation. If Edward is later created Duke of Edinburgh, he will be the first of that creation. In cases like this, it's not the same title, although the words are the same.
 
selrahc4 said:
The only way a title can be merged with the crown is if the person holding the title also holds the crown.

My apologies and thanks for the correction, beautifully done in a friendly but accurate way. :flowers:
 
Skydragon said:
My apologies and thanks for the correction, beautifully done in a friendly but accurate way. :flowers:

What a nice and gracious thing to say, Skydragon. :wub:
 
If Prince Philp out lived The Queen that would shocking but anything is possible and only time will tell if that happens.
 
Henri M. said:
It is no mess. It is crystalclear. The Prince Philip's peerages are hereditary for his heirs-male.
.

Its a mess because they obviously intended for Edward to get the title but the way the succession works, his actually getting the title will be problematic and not so simple.
 
chrissy57 said:
As it is possible to renouce a title with the precedent having been set in earlier decades then if the four of them agree then Edward could inherit but that has not been stated as the current intention which is based on the acceptance of the title by Charles on the death of his father.

Just curious chrissy, how do we know the current intention is that Charles will accept the title on the death of his father?
 
Well, it isn't so much an intentional act of acceptance as just what'd happen automatically on the death of the current Duke. He'd have to formally renounce it, but as far as I know acceptance is something that just happens.
 
Edward can wait for a new creation of the Dukedom when the time comes. The Duke isn't going to live forever and neither will The Queen.
 
Elspeth said:
Well, it isn't so much an intentional act of acceptance as just what'd happen automatically on the death of the current Duke. He'd have to formally renounce it, but as far as I know acceptance is something that just happens.

As is the case for any peer inheriting a peerage, Charles could "disclaim" it.
The Peerage Act 1963 allowed hereditary peerages of England, Scotland, Great Britain or the United Kingdom to be disclaimed for life. The effect of this is that the peerage is in suspended animation until the disclaimed peer dies at which time the next heir holds it. No one holds it while it is suspended, but it is not available for re-granting to anyone else either.
 
Interesting questions on the Duke of Edinburg's status if the Queen should predecease him. As a Protestant descendent of Queen Victoria (he's her oldest surviving great-great grandchild) he's 465th in line for the English throne in his own right.
He may have the same place of precedense that the Queen Mother had, but maybe not. She had attained the title and style "Queen", the highest style he has attained is 'prince of the United Kingdom". So he may actually fall after his own children and grandchildren in precedense.
 
Landgrave said:
Interesting questions on the Duke of Edinburg's status if the Queen should predecease him...So he may actually fall after his own children and grandchildren in precedense.
His current official precedence is immediately after the Queen. Substitute "Sovereign" for "Queen" and he will be placed after King Charles (and his Queen Consort). So in effect his position would not change. If there was any doubt and it needed to be formalised, I assume the new King could issue Letters Patent to confirm his father's precedence after himself and his wife. But based on the Duke's current precedence, it may not be necessary.
 
Although I don't want to step further off topic - I was wondering how many people caught the interview with Prince Edward on SKY News last year. In the interview the presenter notes that he (Edward) will eventually take over the title and the Duke of Edinburgh Award's.

Witty: But you'll have the title of Duke of Edinburgh...(Edward interrupts)
Edward: Depending on the sovereign's wishes. Yes, that has been put forward.

You can see the whole interview at House Wessex.
 
1st Duke of Edinburgh

HRH The Prince Philip is the 1st Duke of Edinburgh of King George VI's creation.

Would his son Charles inherit his title, then Charles will be the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh until he becomes King (then his title merges in the Crown).

Would Charles never become King (he dies before his mother) then William will become the 3rd Duke of Edinburgh, etc.

After a merging of the title into the Crown, if it pleases The King to create Edward as a Duke of Edinburgh, then Edward will be the 1st Duke of Edinburgh of the new creation.
 
Are there any residenses in London where Phillip could live? I suppose William would stay at Clarence House and Marlbrough House (where Queen Mary lived) is now the Commonwealth Secretariat so I suppose he could end up at St James or Kensington.......
 
Why not Buckingham Palace or Windsor? He could stay there...
 
:previous:

I suppose as well he would end up at Windsor Castle. Not long ago I saw a documentary in which he declared Windsor as his home and if there are no protocolic rules, I think he would stay there.
 
The problem with both Windsor and BP are that they are the home of the Sovereign and the spouse of the previous sovereign has always left those homes to the successor e.g. The Queen Mother had to move out of both BP and Windsor when the present Queen became Queen.

A lot would depend on how well he actually gets along with Charles and I don't think they are all that close. Certainly I suspect that of all his children Charles is the one with whom Philip has the least close relationship and the least in common. Also how well he gets along with Camilla would also be important.

It is possible, given the size of Windsor and BP, the age that Philip will be at the time etc, that Charles will simply say something like 'Papa, why don't you stay in the apartments etc that you have lived in for the last 50+ years'.

That would be the most sensible approach but we don't know whether Philip or Charles would want that.
 
Maybe the duke could live in Windsor but instead of the castle, in some other houses of the Home Park. Frogmore House, for example, should be available.
If he prefers London, because of its social life or beacause he prefer to stay near the family or because he need some type of care not avalaible in the countryside I think they will find some apartement in Buckingham Palace. I remember that the mother of the duke himself spent her last years in Buckingham Palace: if there is place for the mother-in-law of the sovereign, there should be also for the father of the sovereign.
 
William will be created Prince Of Wales. No Doubt.
I think that Prince Philip will move out of Buckingham Palace as soon as the Queen dies and move in with Prince Edward. That way he won't have to see Charles that often
I doubt he'll move in with Edward, depending on when he passes away Edward and Sophie are more likely to have more children. And DofE will need to be taken care of.

I agree that DofE and QE will be buried at St Georges Chapel but William will probably be buried there aswell. Harry and Charles maybe buried at Highgrove. But I know Charles was close to the Queen Mother, he may wish to buried next to her.

I think charles will be Charles III.

One Question; Will William be given the titles Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Chester, Earl of Carrick, Baron Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland when Charles becomes King?

And why wouldn't he become Prince Of Wales straight away?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom