If The Duke of Edinburgh outlived The Queen... - Page 4

BeatrixFan · #61 09-04-2006, 12:42 PM

The title will not be inherited by Charles. It will go back to the Crown and it is expected that it will be given to Edward as a new creation.

Henri M. · #62 09-04-2006, 12:48 PM

Prince Charles will inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh, the Earldom of Merioneth and the Barony of Greenwich, becoming the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh.

Will he die prematurely (never became King), his son Prince William will then become the 3rd Duke of Edinburgh.

Will Prince Philip die during King Charles' reign, then his titles will merge with the Crown.

Will Prince Philip die before a reign of his eldest son, then his titles will be inherited by him and merge with the Crown at a later stage (when Charles assumes the kingship).

Prince Edward is only the fifth for the Dukedom of Edinburgh and has to wait for an action by King Charles to create him the 1st Duke of Edinburgh (of a new creation).

BeatrixFan · #63 09-04-2006, 12:50 PM

Usually things would run that way but not in this case. The Queen has decided that the title will return to the Crown and will go to Edward.

Henri M. · #64 09-04-2006, 12:59 PM

Prince Charles will inherit his father's peerages.

But I agree with you: it is very well possible that there is an agreement in the family that it will please His Gracious Majesty The King to create his brother The Prince Edward with the glorious title 'Duke of Edinburgh'.

But it is Charles to do this. Even Queen Elizabeth can not reign over the shadow of her grave.

BeatrixFan · #65 09-04-2006, 01:01 PM

You don't seem to understand - things are already set. It doesn't matter who is on the throne, Edward will be Duke of Edinburgh. You seem to think that the Queen and Philip will die at the same time. It's more than likely that Elizabeth will be alive and well when Philip dies.

Jo of Palatine · #66 09-04-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Usually things would run that way but not in this case. The Queen has decided that the title will return to the Crown and will go to Edward.

Is that so? I knew that it's possible because the souverain is the found of all honours thus of course can created titles and lines of succession as wanted but I wasn't aware that it was already done. do you have a link to the letter patent? Thanks in advance, Jo

.

Henri M. · #67 09-04-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

You don't seem to understand - things are already set. It doesn't matter who is on the throne, Edward will be Duke of Edinburgh. You seem to think that the Queen and Philip will die at the same time. It's more than likely that Elizabeth will be alive and well when Philip dies.

The Letters Patent by her own father King George VI made all her beloved husband's peerages hereditary to his heirs-male. You seem to suggest that The Queen will not handle according the Letters Patent as issued by her father?

Unlikely.

BeatrixFan · #68 09-04-2006, 01:14 PM

I don't have the LP but when this was announced, Dickie Arbiter said it had been "signed and sealed" for a long time and so it was generally accepted that Philip's/Edward's title was all sorted and things will just happen. It's all catered for so that HM doesn't have to think about it when Philip dies.

Henri M. I don't suggest anything. I relate fact. And the facts are that it was announced that the Queen wants Edward to have the title and if she has altered Letters Patents or issued any of her own, he'll start using it after his father's funeral. George VI is irrelevant, her beloved husband is irrelevant - it's quite simple. Charles will not inherit that title. Edward will be created a Duke of Edinburgh.

branchg · #69 09-04-2006, 03:11 PM

The announcement was Prince Edward would become Duke of Edinburgh after the death of his parents. If Philip survives The Queen, Charles is King. Once Philip passes away, the dukedom merges with the Crown and is available again for Edward.

If Charles does not survive his mother, William becomes King and can regrant it to Edward. If Charles and Philip both die before The Queen, then William becomes the Duke of Edinburgh until he succeeds to the throne.

The Queen cannot grant the dukedom to Edward while her eldest son lives. Charles or William would have to grant it in due course once they are King.

branchg · #70 09-04-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henri M.

When Prince Charles should die, then his son Prince William will become Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Edinburgh, etc. etc. and eventually at a later stage created Prince of Wales.

William will not become Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay if his father died before becoming King. It can only be held by the eldest son and heir of The Sovereign.

If Charles succeeded to his father's titles at the time of his death, then William would become the 3rd Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich. The Queen would also create him Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester as the new heir to the throne.

srivishnu · #71 09-05-2006, 09:33 PM

The fact is that HRH Prince Edward,The Earl of Wessex will inherit The Dukedom of Edinburgh from his father,HRH Prince Philip once The Duke of Edinburgh dies either before or after The Queen.When The Queen conferred the title of Earl & Countess of Wessex to HRH Prince Edward and HRH Princess Edward when they got married a few years back,it has also been agreed by The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh that the title of The Duke of Edinburgh will be passed on to HRH Prince Edward regardless of who will be on the throne in the future.

selrahc4 · #72 09-05-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srivishnu

The fact is that HRH Prince Edward,The Earl of Wessex will inherit The Dukedom of Edinburgh from his father,HRH Prince Philip once The Duke of Edinburgh dies either before or after The Queen.When The Queen conferred the title of Earl & Countess of Wessex to HRH Prince Edward and HRH Princess Edward when they got married a few years back,it has also been agreed by The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh that the title of The Duke of Edinburgh will be passed on to HRH Prince Edward regardless of who will be on the throne in the future.

Part of what you say is true. However, the word "inherit" was, correctly, not used.

branchg · #73 09-05-2006, 11:30 PM

It was confirmed the intention was for Edward to become Duke of Edinburgh after the death of his parents. He cannot become Duke of Edinburgh if Charles is still alive. If Charles doesn't survive his parents, then William becomes Duke of Edinburgh if Philip dies before The Queen. Upon succeeding the throne, it could then be recreated for Edward.

srivishnu · #74 09-06-2006, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selrahc4

Part of what you say is true. However, the word "inherit" was, correctly, not used.

Since HRH Prince Edward will be the next Duke of Edinburgh after the death of his dad,Prince Philip,it is known as inherit similiar to HRH Prince Charles who will inherit the throne from his mum,The Queen.Please feel free to browse the following web site for further explanation of "inherit" > http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=inherit

srivishnu · #75 09-06-2006, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg

It was confirmed the intention was for Edward to become Duke of Edinburgh after the death of his parents. He cannot become Duke of Edinburgh if Charles is still alive. If Charles doesn't survive his parents, then William becomes Duke of Edinburgh if Philip dies before The Queen. Upon succeeding the throne, it could then be recreated for Edward.

If you say that Prince Edward to become The Duke of Edinburgh after his parents dies,then how come Prince William can become The Duke of Edinburgh if Prince Philip dies before The Queen and if Prince Charles doesn't survive his parents?If Prince Edward can only become The Duke of Edinburgh once both his parents dies,then Prince William can only become The Duke of Edinburgh once both his grandparents dies & his dad has passed away.

**Warren** · #76 09-06-2006, 03:50 AM

The legalities of the how the Earl of Wessex may eventually be granted the Dukedom of Edinburgh in his own right have been stated well enough by members in previous posts.

There is no point in confusing the issue further and going off on irrelevant tangents with dictionary definitions, or by asking questions which have already been answered in the pages of this thread.

Thanks.

Warren,
British Forums moderator

Henri M. · #77 09-06-2006, 12:46 PM

I have searched for the Letters Patent concerning Prince Philip, here they are:

Whitehall, November 20, 1947.
The KING has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm, bearing date the 19th instant, to declare that Lieutenant Sir Philip Mountbatten, K.G., R.N., shall be entitled to hold and enjoy the title, style and attribute of ROYAL HIGHNESS.

Whitehall, November 20, 1947.
The KING has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm, bearing date the 20th instant, to confer the dignity of a Duke of the United Kingdom upon Lieutenant His Royal Highness Sir Philip Mountbatten, K.G., R.N., and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten, by the name, style and title of BARON GREENWICH, of Greenwich in the County of London, EARL OF MERIONETH, and DUKE OF EDINBURGH.

Whitehall, November 9, 1948.
The KING has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm bearing date the 22nd ultimo to define and fix the style and title by which the children of the marriage solemnized between Her Royal Highness The Princess Elizabeth,Duchess of Edinburgh and His Royal Highness Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, shall be designated. It is declared by the Letters Patent that the children of the aforesaid marriage shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names in addition to any other appellations and titles of honour which may belong to them hereafter.

Whitehall, 26th September, 1952.
The QUEEN has been graciously pleased by Warrant bearing date the 18th instant to declare and ordain that His Royal Highness Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Knight of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Commander in the Royal Navy, shall henceforth upon all occasions and in all Meetings except where otherwise provided by Act of Parliament have, hold and enjoy Place, Pre-eminence and Precedence next to Her Majesty.

Whitehall, February 22, 1957.
The QUEEN has been pleased to declare her will and pleasure that His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh shall henceforth be known as His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

AT THE COURT AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE,
The 8th day of February 1960.
PRESENT, THE QUEEN'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY IN COUNCIL.
Her Majesty was this day pleased to make the following Declaration:
" My Lords,
Whereas on the 9th day of April 1952, I did declare in Council My Will and Pleasure that I and My children shall be styled and known as of the House and Family of Windsor, and that my descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor: And whereas I have given further consideration to the position of those of My descendants who will enjoy neither the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness, nor the titular dignity of Prince, and for whom therefore a surname will be necessary: And whereas I have concluded that the Declaration made by Me on the 9th day of April 1952, should be varied in its application to such persons: Now therefore I declare My Will and Pleasure that, while I and My children shall continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor."