Evolution of the Queen's English

[Elspeth]

Apparently the younger members of the royal family aren't the only ones whose English is beginning to sound like the rest of us; according to this article, the Queen's English has also become less "upper class" and more in line with the way the rest of the country speaks. Is nothing sacred?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/ma...4/nqueen04.xml

I've seen reports that the younger royals and their close relations like Prince Edward, Diana Princess of Wales, and the Phillips children are/were using something between regular received pronunciation and Estuary English whereas the older royals still spoke with "cut glass" accents, but apparently the older ones are coming a bit downmarket too.

I wonder if this has to do with the media or whether it's because the members of the royal family meet more middle- and working-class people than they used to.

[LadyK]

I would be interested in hearing how the Queen's English changed from QEII's grandfather and her father to her, too.

[ysbel]

I think I heard the Christmas speech where she talked about 'hame' I always enjoy Sylvia Peter's broadcast of Elizabeth II's coronation as an example of what a really upper crust accent sounded like. When Sylvia announced, "Hehur Mejesty" it was quite enchanting.

I think the upper crust English accent kept the lower jaw very clenched. It was hard to pronounce the really rounded vowels like Oh and Ah.

[lilytornado]

Originally Posted by ysbel

I think I heard the Christmas speech where she talked about 'hame' I always enjoy Sylvia Peter's broadcast of Elizabeth II's coronation as an example of what a really upper crust accent sounded like. When Sylvia announced, "Hehur Mejesty" it was quite enchanting.

I think the upper crust English accent kept the lower jaw very clenched. It was hard to pronounce the really rounded vowels like Oh and Ah.

Do you have a link to that? I have never seen it and think it would be really interesting.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by lilytornado

Do you have a link to that? I have never seen it and think it would be really interesting.

Yes, Lily. :)

Sylvia Peters narrated the original BBC broadcast of the Queen's coronation which you can find here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2654501.stm

Just click on the Play Video button to view. It contains over 40 minutes of programming.

[lilytornado]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Yes, Lily. :)

Sylvia Peters narrated the original BBC broadcast of the Queen's coronation which you can find here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2654501.stm

Just click on the Play Video button to view. It contains over 40 minutes of programming.

Thank you very much!!

[lord_rankin]

Originally Posted by ysbel

I think the upper crust English accent kept the lower jaw very clenched. It was hard to pronounce the really rounded vowels like Oh and Ah.

I love imitating peoples accents and your absolutely right about the clenched
jaw, it takes a concerted effort to replace the Oh and Ah sounds when your
speaking, another a couple weeks practice and I should have it down pat!

[Elspeth]

I remember that twenty-first birthday broadcast from South Africa, where "my whole life" sounded quite a bit like "may hale lafe." When she did that voice-over for the documentary about her life a few years ago, I remember being struck by how deep her voice was compared to the early broadcasts, where it was almost painfully high-pitched.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I remember that twenty-first birthday broadcast from South Africa, where "my whole life" sounded quite a bit like "may hale lafe." When she did that voice-over for the documentary about her life a few years ago, I remember being struck by how deep her voice was compared to the early broadcasts, where it was almost painfully high-pitched

I loved your observation, Elspeth...good chuckle here

I think it pretty common place among the aging that as they grow older, their voices tend to deepen..a lilttle like their ears. Their ears always seem to droop..haha

There is a difference in HM english, when comparing it to that of her younger years, but I find it quite endearing.

Like in the Rolf Harris documentary (painting commissioned for her 80th) where asked if seeing herself age bothered her, she replied...'Naaahhh'.

Now, would have Elizabeth ever projected such a wonderfully unrefined sound in her youth?.lol.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Like in the Rolf Harris documentary (painting commisioned for her 80th) where asked if seeing herself age bothered her, she replied...'Naaahhh'.

It's easy to imagine that she picked this one up from Harry.

[CasiraghiTrio]

I don't know.... I still hear the same vowel pronunciations in her latest commonwealth speech. The same clipped, clenched speech of always for HM, at least I can't hear any difference.
I remember reading in Brian Hoey's book on Charles (the first one, at 30 or something) that Charles has mostly his father's voice and accent (obviously, of course) but his vowel sounds are his mother's. With Prince William, I used to hear the same Philip-Charles voice, only now William's is highly altered. Maybe his university years, stepping from the Etonian class to the upper middle class, is what did it.

[Elise27]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

I loved your observation, Elspeth...good chuckle here

I think it pretty common place among the aging that as they grow older, their voices tend to deepen..a lilttle like their ears. Their ears always seem to droop..haha

There is a difference in HM english, when comparing it to that of her younger years, but I find it quite endearing.

Like in the Rolf Harris documentary (painting commissioned for her 80th) where asked if seeing herself age bothered her, she replied...'Naaahhh'.

Now, would have Elizabeth ever projected such a wonderfully unrefined sound in her youth?.lol.

that was rather shocking wasn't it but I quite enjoyed it, i dont think i would have ever imagined the queen saying 'naaahh". I wish there were a video on the net of that. I do wonder what else the queen says that we would never expect her to say.

[Queen Marie]

The simple fact is that the English language is a constantly evolving one.
This process is only speeding up, owing to television and globalisation, hence Her Majesty's seemingly quick descent into a "lower" form of English.
If we were to jump forward in time, just a few hundred years, we would have enormous trouble keeping up with a conversation in our own language!
In some ways it's a sad thing, as the Queen's English really is a lost art, but it's also interesting to study how English has changed over the centuries.

[Vanishing Lady]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I remember that twenty-first birthday broadcast from South Africa, where "my whole life" sounded quite a bit like "may hale lafe." When she did that voice-over for the documentary about her life a few years ago, I remember being struck by how deep her voice was compared to the early broadcasts, where it was almost painfully high-pitched.

That happens because of the recording medium and how it changes over the years. If you have a tape of your voice from some years back, play it and listen to yourself -- your voice might sound a little higher.

Also, when you hear yourself talk, you are listening from the inside of your own head by convection (sound bouncing off the bones in your skull), so your perception of how you sound may be different from how you actually sound. It's always such a jolt to hear yourself recorded because recording isn't done by convection.

Another thing is the vocal cords do tend to stretch with age and use, making the voice seem lower as we get older -- this isn't true with everyone, but it does happen. Also, when she is more relaxed, her voice may be lower. I have a low voice myself, but when I need to speak up or into a microphone, it does go up in pitch a bit. The mechanics are fascinating -- I could be here all night.

On the topic of the relaxation of the Queen's English, it's partially due to evolution of the language itself, and partially due to societal relaxation and more of an attempt at egalitarianism...well, in public, anyway...

[selrahc4]

Originally Posted by Vanishing Lady

That happens because of the recording medium and how it changes over the years. If you have a tape of your voice from some years back, play it and listen to yourself -- your voice might sound a little higher.

Also, when you hear yourself talk, you are listening from the inside of your own head by convection (sound bouncing off the bones in your skull), so your perception of how you sound may be different from how you actually sound. It's always such a jolt to hear yourself recorded because recording isn't done by convection.

Another thing is the vocal cords do tend to stretch with age and use, making the voice seem lower as we get older -- this isn't true with everyone, but it does happen. Also, when she is more relaxed, her voice may be lower. I have a low voice myself, but when I need to speak up or into a microphone, it does go up in pitch a bit. The mechanics are fascinating -- I could be here all night.

On the topic of the relaxation of the Queen's English, it's partially due to evolution of the language itself, and partially due to societal relaxation and more of an attempt at egalitarianism...well, in public, anyway...

Even back in the day (1950's) when the Queen was being criticised for her high-pitched voice when delivering speeches, there were many who mentioned that her normal speaking voice in private was normally lower. So, it makes sense that it was from nervousness, at least partially,.

[Lady Bluffton]

I would say don't underestimate the power of television to modify a person's accent or even dialect. Linguists throughout the world are scrambling to find "untainted" subjects who have never travelled more than a few hours from their home and who don't watch television. In the United States, that's a very rare person, indeed. I would imagine the same in England and other developed nations.

Dare say that the Queen does not fall into that category, and can be expected to have an evolving accent / pronunciation...just like the rest of us!

[Picmajik]

Originally Posted by Lady Bluffton

I would say don't underestimate the power of television to modify a person's accent or even dialect. Linguists throughout the world are scrambling to find "untainted" subjects who have never travelled more than a few hours from their home and who don't watch television. In the United States, that's a very rare person, indeed. I would imagine the same in England and other developed nations.

Dare say that the Queen does not fall into that category, and can be expected to have an evolving accent / pronunciation...just like the rest of us!

I can tell a difference just traveling across my home state with regional dialects. Back in the 70's when President Carter was elected there were many books and magazine articles "analyzing" his accent and how we had at least 9 distinct dialects in our state and on and on. It's just that some in the media were making fun of the fact that if you do not speak as they do the assumption is that you are less educated and we know more, etc. If you do not have their trained "neutral" broadcast voice then you must be a hick, redneck or other country bumpkin. One thing they did get right in some of these articles is that the influence of radio, then TV and our more mobile society has made a difference in homogenizing our accents more. The best example they gave is how Carter's generation would pronounce his last name as "cot-tuh", dropping both r's. My generation would say "car-tuh", just dropping the last r.

I made a point of videotaping my great aunt before she passed on just so I could have copies of some of her stories with her great regional accent and laugh. I was born in Louisiana while my father was in college and when I first moved back to Georgia full time when I was 7 I could barely understand half my relatives. It took a while but soon I sounded more like them but still a mix of both parents. I love being able to pick up on some regional accents now and more often than not I can tell what part of the US someone is from but I'm nowhere near Henry Higgins. It is possible to find some "untainted" accents in rural areas but most of them are older and it is harder to find. I would love to sit down and videotape relatives with family stories just to preserve accents and stories. I love colloquialisms also--where did this phrase come from and whatever does it mean?

As for the "cut glass" accent I can sit and listen to it all day. My mom gets frustrated though as she can't understand it at all if I'm watching any British tv show. I found a book once that I wish I'd bought now explaining the different between U and non-U vocabulary and accents, similar to URP but Americanized.

[BeatrixFan]

Well, apparantly "The Queen's English" refers to Queen Victoria's English. Because she had a German accent, she over-annunciated words such as "Axe" making them sound like "Ix". The court didn't want the Queen to sound unusual so they all took on that style of speaking which was then adopted by her descendants and spread to the Upper Classes, the BBC etc. Whether it's true or not I'm not sure.

[sinulord]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Well, apparantly "The Queen's English" refers to Queen Victoria's English. Because she had a German accent, she over-annunciated words such as "Axe" making them sound like "Ix". The court didn't want the Queen to sound unusual so they all took on that style of speaking which was then adopted by her descendants and spread to the Upper Classes, the BBC etc. Whether it's true or not I'm not sure.

Very interesting, thanks.

[BeatrixFan]

I think it's funny because my grandmother always speaks with a cockney accent but occassionaly she'll say, "Lorst" or "Orf". For example, she might say, "I waz dahn that noo 'appy shoppa you know, got orf da bus en ar saw Reenee Bones en she sed 'Gawd blimey, arm all lorst on this noo root". So I think generally the estuary accent and the Queen's accent are mingling alot now.