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  #141  
Old 07-27-2008, 10:21 AM
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IMO I think that the royal family had no idea of how popular and loved Diana was. Since they are the pinnacle of that particular society, I thought very strange, to see them in Balmoral,as if nothing had happened and will never forget the look in those boys eyes as they were taken by car to the service. If HMīs main concern was to protect and nurture them and "spare " them the contact with their people, why insist on their presence in that service where not even the name of their mother was mentioned. I will never forget the dignity of Jacqueline Kennedy with her two tiny children in the funeral of her husband and their father. She understood she was a woman and mother, but also part of history. If the RF represents history, as well, there are certain things, that they must do no matter what privately they feel or think. They are not only private people and they have been brought up to understand that.
I donīt think it harmed William and Harry to pay tribute to their Mother.They seem to have a high regard of her, even 10 years after.
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  #142  
Old 07-27-2008, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Carminha Stalker View Post
IMO If the RF represents history, as well, there are certain things, that they must do no matter what privately they feel or think. They are not only private people and they have been brought up to understand that.
If only Diana had understood that there were some things she must do to support the monarchy no matter what she thought of Charles the man and his infidelities and her mother-in-law the Queen who she thought was cold and uncaring, if she had not used the world stage as her personal pscychiatrist's couch to expose her personal problems and petty hatred against individual members of the Royal Family, there would have been no controversy in her death.

Alas, people expect the Royal Family to shove aside their personal feelings and 'suck it up' while they admire Diana for 'breaking out of the silence' and 'exposing the fraud'

You can't have it both ways and you can't condemn the Royal Family for failing to maintain their responsiblity towards history in one of their worse days that Diana could not even muster on her best days.

If the Royal Family showed their personal feelings towards Diana on that day, then Diana showed them how to do it for she had shown her open disgust for the Royal Family for quite some time.

When will people understand that Diana is not the only person who has a right to feel hurt and offended and victimized? Yet only to Diana do they give this mantle of blessing of understanding and forgiveness.
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  #143  
Old 07-27-2008, 10:46 AM
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The Queen is a deeply religious woman and as such she took the boys to pray for their mother. You say the royal family had no idea how loved Diana was! How can anyone love a person they donīt know? That is a very loose meaning of love, they can respect, admire but love? The people who loved Diana were her close family and most of all her sons. There are certain things that the royal family must do, they must open hospitals, head charitable organisations, become titular heads of the armed forces. Unfortunately at the funeral of their mother these very young boys had to walk and ride through a crazed crowd throwing flowers. I am sure that they would have preferred to have prayed quietly in Craithie Church with their grandmother and then attend their motherīs funeral, not give a gawping crowd a spectacle. Noblesse oblige.
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  #144  
Old 07-27-2008, 11:15 AM
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When will people understand that Diana is not the only person who has a right to feel hurt and offended and victimized? Yet only to Diana do they give this mantle of blessing of understanding and forgiveness.
Probably because she died ? Understand me well, I'm not saying it's an excuse. But dead people will always have the advantage of 'not being here to defend themselves', as I've read quite a few times on TRF. It can be a disadvantage when gross stuff are written on that person however, Diana played the victim and many people believed her until they started to realize the press manipulation when she booked vacations with Al-Fayed. Like we all know, she never made it back to London and here it was : victim Diana on the front page. Death can be so shocking that people forget what bad things a person did before passing away. Some feel guilty to make reproach to someone who died no matter how terrible and unfair it might be for the livings who endured many hard times because of this person.
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  #145  
Old 07-27-2008, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Carminha Stalker View Post
IMO I think that the royal family had no idea of how popular and loved Diana was. Since they are the pinnacle of that particular society, I thought very strange, to see them in Balmoral,as if nothing had happened
Yes, but we didn't see them in Balmoral so we don't know whether they were reacting as though nothing had happened or not. We also don't know why they decided to stay there. As Skydragon said, it felt as though people were trying to bully the Queen into returning to London so they could see her grieve (or blame her for not appearing to do so). The royal family must have had a pretty good idea by then that Diana was an international superstar; they might not have realised how successful the press had been in turning public anger and vengefulness away from themselves and onto the royal family and were using the royal family's absence to their own advantage - to say nothing of the way Tony Blair had managed to take centre stage in the Queen's absence. It would have looked a bit insecure if she'd rushed back to London because she was afraid Tony Blair was staging a coup or something.

Quote:
and will never forget the look in those boys eyes as they were taken by car to the service. If HMīs main concern was to protect and nurture them and "spare " them the contact with their people, why insist on their presence in that service where not even the name of their mother was mentioned.
It appears from everything that was written that William and Harry were asked if they wanted to attend the church service and said they did. I'm not sure where you're getting "insist" from, but it's news to me.
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  #146  
Old 07-27-2008, 12:02 PM
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Probably because she died ? Understand me well, I'm not saying it's an excuse. But dead people will always have the advantage of 'not being here to defend themselves', as I've read quite a few times on TRF. It can be a disadvantage when gross stuff are written on that person however, Diana played the victim and many people believed her until they started to realize the press manipulation when she booked vacations with Al-Fayed. Like we all know, she never made it back to London and here it was : victim Diana on the front page. Death can be so shocking that people forget what bad things a person did before passing away. Some feel guilty to make reproach to someone who died no matter how terrible and unfair it might be for the livings who endured many hard times because of this person.
That would have made perfect sense right after the funeral TheTruth but its been 10 years now.

Diana's 'mantle of innocence' has been used to hurt the Royal Family for far too long now.
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  #147  
Old 07-27-2008, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Carminha Stalker View Post
If HMīs main concern was to protect and nurture them and "spare " them the contact with their people, why insist on their presence in that service where not even the name of their mother was mentioned.
I heard she also only lets them eat gruel in a dungeon.
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  #148  
Old 07-27-2008, 05:00 PM
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I was not at all surprised that my opinion of the question (Did the Queen act appropriately...) stirred so much. I am a Brazilian, but I lived seven years in England. I am also a Monarchist even though I live in a Republic. The fact that people loved, liked, or whatever Diana all over the world and that people were shocked by her appaling death is true. Now, if she was right or wrong versus the RF, there are also two sides to that story. As somebody said: when a person dies, she canīt defend herself.
As to the fact the boys were taken to that church I got my facts from the press as much as most of you got yours. Their faces were more eloquent than any words. I still donīt understand why in the service their motherīs name wasnīt even mentioned? I know, I know, to "spare" them. Gosh, we are talking about two boys, who are being brought up to be very visible in this tough cruel world. I saw the whole ceremonial and saw them walking behind their Mumīs casket and I didnīt see anybody mad threatening them. Nor do I think it has harmed them.Itīs is only my opinion. If people donīt want opinions, why pose the question?
P.S. Wbenson: Who is she? And also, they are a bit too old to eat gruel and as far as I know dungeons are not very popular.
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  #149  
Old 07-27-2008, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Carminha Stalker View Post
As to the fact the boys were taken to that church I got my facts from the press as much as most of you got yours.
You said that the Queen insisted that they go.
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  #150  
Old 07-27-2008, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Carminha Stalker View Post
I still donīt understand why in the service their motherīs name wasnīt even mentioned? I know, I know, to "spare" them.
Perhaps because it was a typically British funeral? Everyone knew whose funeral it was!
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  #151  
Old 07-27-2008, 05:45 PM
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Yes, thatīs what I read. I wouldnīt immagine a thing like that, cause it would be difficult for me to do it all the way from Rio to Balmoral. Gosh, letīs not take things so seriously, for Heavenīs sake. If this is a Forum, each is intitled to have an opinion, as long as one is not direspectful. Again, what I wrote innitially was my own personal answer to a question that was posed. I didnīt know I had to answer only in a certain fashion.
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  #152  
Old 07-27-2008, 05:53 PM
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No, it wasnīt a typically British funeral. It was a service in Balmoral.
But know what, I think, Iīll return to my precious invisibility.
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  #153  
Old 07-27-2008, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Carminha Stalker View Post
Yes, thatīs what I read. I wouldnīt immagine a thing like that, cause it would be difficult for me to do it all the way from Rio to Balmoral. Gosh, letīs not take things so seriously, for Heavenīs sake. If this is a Forum, each is intitled to have an opinion, as long as one is not direspectful. Again, what I wrote innitially was my own personal answer to a question that was posed. I didnīt know I had to answer only in a certain fashion.
I was only answering the question of why her name wasn't mentioned, no reason apart from that is normal at a British funeral. I was trying to clarify that one point in your post and not addressing your opinion at all.
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No, it wasnīt a typically British funeral. It was a service in Balmoral.
But know what, I think, Iīll return to my precious invisibility.
If you are talking about the normal Sunday service at Crathie, nobody except the Royal Family was there, so how would anyone be able to say whether her name was mentioned at all?

It would be most unusual to mention a deceased person at an ordinary Sunday service, except to offer prayers, which they probably did.
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  #154  
Old 07-27-2008, 06:19 PM
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I personally feel that the Queen acted appropriately in the aftermath of Diana's death. She felt her first duty was to her grandsons and honestly believed that as Diana was an ex-member of the Royal Family that she did not need to address the nation, fly the flag at half mast, etc... and I don't really blame her for thinkin that way. Also, her intent at Balmoral was to shield those boys from the press and keep them busy while they were with their family. Then the media just had to get involved and make it a war when it really should have been a private moment. Of course, the nation wanted to grieve for the their princess, but let's be honest--the people who knew her--her children--needed their own time to heal and the Queen was looking out for them. I applaud how she handled everything. And, I did not like the way the media spent the whole morning of the funeral wondering if the queen would be paying her respects to her former daughter in law and they replayed that bow over and over and over again. They were just trying to keep a fire going.
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  #155  
Old 07-27-2008, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
I personally feel that the Queen acted appropriately in the aftermath of Diana's death. She felt her first duty was to her grandsons and honestly believed that as Diana was an ex-member of the Royal Family that she did not need to address the nation, fly the flag at half mast, etc... and I don't really blame her for thinkin that way. Also, her intent at Balmoral was to shield those boys from the press and keep them busy while they were with their family. Then the media just had to get involved and make it a war when it really should have been a private moment. Of course, the nation wanted to grieve for the their princess, but let's be honest--the people who knew her--her children--needed their own time to heal and the Queen was looking out for them. I applaud how she handled everything. And, I did not like the way the media spent the whole morning of the funeral wondering if the queen would be paying her respects to her former daughter in law and they replayed that bow over and over and over again. They were just trying to keep a fire going.

The press had to do that of course. Otherwise the people would blame them due to the fact that the press would be the ones buying the photos taken by the paparazzi.

The press turned Diana into a star through their constant coverage. By 1997 the paparazzi could demand huge sums for their photos because the press knew that a new photo of Diana, doing anything, with some simple story or speculation attached would sell more copies than any other story so the press, and the public who bought these stories and pictures, needed someone else to blame for Diana's death - and the Royal Family were a good scapegoat. The Royals wouldn't fight back.
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  #156  
Old 07-27-2008, 11:00 PM
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If you are talking about the normal Sunday service at Crathie, nobody except the Royal Family was there, so how would anyone be able to say whether her name was mentioned at all?
That came from the Minister of Crathie at one point.

Mirren's portrayal increases Queen's popularity | Mail Online

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And the minister at Crathie, the Rev. Robert Sloan, explained later that mention of Diana?s death had been omitted "to protect the boys".
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  #157  
Old 07-28-2008, 02:21 AM
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Good sense on the part of the Rev. Robert Sloan then, he knew how difficult those first hours after a sudden death can be and realised they would have to bear a great deal within a few days when they returned to London for the funeral. Perhaps he felt it would be too soon to interfere in the private grief of young boys. I only wish that the public and the media had felt the same way.
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  #158  
Old 07-28-2008, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
That came from the Minister of Crathie at one point.

Mirren's portrayal increases Queen's popularity | Mail Online
It also says -
Quote:
So why did Mr Varwell, now 60, not change his sermon? "I?m not prepared to talk about that at the moment - perhaps one day I will," he said yesterday, sounding decidedly uneasy, from his home in Fort Augustus, Scotland. But clearly, no church would have been so apparently unthinking as this without guidance from the Royal Family.
And the minister at Crathie, the Rev. Robert Sloan, explained later that mention of Diana?s death had been omitted "to protect the boys"
The remark from Sloan, if it is true, rather sounds like the CoS closing ranks to protect one of their own and the Mail once again taking a stab at the Royal Family.

However, sermons used would have been pre-approved and probably nobody thought to speak to an advisor regarding altering it.
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  #159  
Old 07-28-2008, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Good sense on the part of the Rev. Robert Sloan then, he knew how difficult those first hours after a sudden death can be and realised they would have to bear a great deal within a few days when they returned to London for the funeral. Perhaps he felt it would be too soon to interfere in the private grief of young boys. I only wish that the public and the media had felt the same way.
I agree, there would be enough turmoil in their minds and sticking to a routine does seem to help to get through the days immediately after a sudden death in the family, IMO.
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:12 AM
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I thought I had "made up" the omission of Dianaīs name. As to the fact that their motherīs name would upset the boys - that is unthinkable for me. I still remember the gorgeous little crown of roses with the simple envelope saying "Mommy". I lost my own Mother when I was very young and fortunately my family helped me face that fact, not by keeping up like nothing had happened, but making me understand that grief is part of humanīs condition. It doesnīt harm you, rather it protects you from bottling it up and becoming ill. Even the Bible tells of different attitudes for different situations. But then, what would I know?Iīm amazed at how everybody acted so wisely according to many people and I am the only person whose every word is questioned as to "where did you get that from?" Back to the shell, Carminha.
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