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  #101  
Old 07-06-2008, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Unfortunately, that is how many of them acted. Not there to mourn Diana, but to bully HM into returning to London and bringing her grandsons back so they could 'see' them grieve.
You know it is interesting to see another's point of view in a situation. Thinking about the the aftermath following Diana, Princess of Wales death, I always wondered why the Queen was reluctant to come to London.
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  #102  
Old 07-06-2008, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
You know it is interesting to see another's point of view in a situation. Thinking about the the aftermath following Diana, Princess of Wales death, I always wondered why the Queen was reluctant to come to London.
IMO, she did as any parent or grandparent would do, tried to protect the children. They should never have been forced back to London at that time, the children and the rest of the family needed a chance to absorb what had happened before being forced to put on a brave face. What some seemed to forget is that this was their grief, for a woman they actually knew.
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  #103  
Old 07-07-2008, 01:49 AM
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Well said, Skydragon. I can't imagine the feeling of dislocation that William and Harry must have felt...first of all being told that their mother--whom they expected to see shortly--had died, then being ripped from their vacation home where they were spending time with the comfort of their father and grandparents, then having to put on brave faces and accept condolences from emotional strangers, and then marching behind their dead mother's casket to the funeral where their paternal family is attacked in a "eulogy" given by their mother's brother. It's a wonder that they're as well-adjusted as they are.

Death always causes shock, even for people who might not have been on the best of terms with the deceased. I hold the tabloids responsible for whipping people up into a bullying frenzy against the Royal Family--in order to take the heat off themselves.
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  #104  
Old 07-25-2008, 01:16 PM
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Since there was no precedence for that situation, it's hard to define what is appropriate and that's largely in the eyes of the beholder. Apparently most beholders at the time didn't think it entirely appropriate to act as though nothing was amiss for days and days until her PM finally advised her to come back to London for the funeral. She should have done that on her own instincts of what was right. I think her reaction was that Diana was entirely in the past already and what really stunned her was that she suddenly discovered this was not the case. Perhaps the death caused her to revise some of her opinions, but we have no way of knowing anything factually of what her motives or reactions were. I certainly don't buy the idea that you protect teenagers from death by hiding away from it, and there's something grossly abnormal about suggesting that you're protecting them from their mother just because you personally hated that mother. That's simply ill-making.
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  #105  
Old 07-25-2008, 01:47 PM
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Who can say if she hated her or not ? To me, even if Diana did many things to annoy the Queen, she probably felt very sad when she died and I doubt anger was the sensation she got when she heard the news.
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  #106  
Old 07-25-2008, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TheTruth View Post
Who can say if she hated her or not ? To me, even if Diana did many things to annoy the Queen, she probably felt very sad when she died and I doubt anger was the sensation she got when she heard the news.
I really don't think HM had any emotion but sorrow at the loss of a young vibrant woman, especially one that was the mother of her grandchildren, (nor have I seen hatred directed at Diana by anyone on this forum).

I still believe that HM acted in the best interests of the children, to shield them from the mass of people and the press intrusion at such an awful time for them and the family.
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  #107  
Old 07-25-2008, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TheTruth View Post
Who can say if she hated her or not ? To me, even if Diana did many things to annoy the Queen, she probably felt very sad when she died and I doubt anger was the sensation she got when she heard the news.
I didn't mean to infer the Queen hated anybody. The "you" in my previous was referring instead to certain other members of the public who continue to obsess on her in a negative way.
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  #108  
Old 07-25-2008, 04:07 PM
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I donīt think that the Queen is any different to any other woman in her feelings. Diana did so much to annoy her and to cause problems in her family, I donīt think she hated her but I am sure she didnīt like her that much. This said, there are a few people in my family that have annoyed me and made me dislike them very much but I would still feel sorrow if something tragic like an accident killed them. If she thought of the children first she did quite rightly. I agree with Jo who said she was bullied into coming back, putting her standard at half mast, which was against all protocol and parading herself and her grandchildren so that people could gape at them.
If there is an objection to the crowd being called a howling mob, think back to when the coffin left the gates, there was one woman in the crowd who started howling at the top of her voice "Diana" and for a moment I thought that she would start off a frenzy but luckily good sense prevailed and no one followed suit but if she had succeeded imagine what effect that would have had on the young sons. I feel very sorry for the Queen and what she went through and then to have Dianaīs brother rebuke the royal family in church at the funeral and not react, this must have been very difficult and very disagreeable for her and her family.
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  #109  
Old 07-25-2008, 04:17 PM
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I donīt think she hated her but I am sure she didnīt like her that much. This said, there are a few people in my family that have annoyed me and made me dislike them very much but I would still feel sorrow if something tragic like an accident killed them.
Again, no one said "she hated her". Where did you read that?

You might feel sorrow and then you might feel relief. Then you might feel free to criticise them and take them to pieces for years and years afterwards. Some people are like that too. I notice the Queen has been smiling a whole lot more since the passing of both her mother and sister who were around her a lifetime rather than just a decade. Losing someone can be a very complicated affair and I think this occasion was complicated enough on many levels. As I mentioned before it was instantly deleted, I lost a parent just last October so I know exactly how complicated it can be.
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  #110  
Old 07-25-2008, 04:21 PM
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I personally believe that the Queen acted with class and that she did exactly what was correct in her eyes. The woman would never have hated Diana (not understood her, I'm sure) but she would have, IMO, shed a few tears with her grandsons in private. Her feelings are a private thing (she was trained that way from little up) and she showed more class than some of her other relatives -- her sister for one (who refused to bow her head when the coffin passed even though the Queen did). Heavens that is something that you do even if you do not know the person in the coffin! I will always believe that the Queen was made a scape-goat by the press.
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  #111  
Old 07-25-2008, 04:51 PM
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The Queen was correct in not returning to London immediately following Diana's death. Diana was not a member of the royal family and the Queen owed the public nothing with respect to Diana's life or death.

QEII's entire career as Queen was spent in putting duty before all else even to the detriment of her own family. The one time she put her family first, the people were up in arms over it. The boys were where they needed to be: with family who love them and away from the prying eyes of the press. There was nothing to be gained by parading them in front of the mourners at Kensington Palace.
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  #112  
Old 07-25-2008, 05:06 PM
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I remember feeling so angry at the British public at the time with their attitude to the Queen.

She was doing what any loving grandmother would do in the circumstances - her grandsons were staying with her when their mother was killed. No other grandmother would be expected to drop everything and run to the other end of the country to comfort complete strangers. She did what was right - she helped her grandsons cope with the situation before exposing them, and the rest of her family, to the baying of the multitudes storm which was being driven by the media (who were reacting to their own guilt over the death seeing as they were the ones who bought the photos from the paparazzi anyway).

My respect for the Queen, Duke and Charles increased markedly that week as they showed that family can, and in that case did, come first.
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  #113  
Old 07-25-2008, 05:22 PM
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I notice the Queen has been smiling a whole lot more since the passing of both her mother and sister who were around her a lifetime rather than just a decade.
I believe that when you see people you love die, you probably see the world differently and I guess that at 82, you already tend to smile more, thinking of how much time is left.
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  #114  
Old 07-25-2008, 06:39 PM
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I believe that when you see people you love die, you probably see the world differently and I guess that at 82, you already tend to smile more, thinking of how much time is left.
This is true and thanks for accepting (unlike the predictable others) my clarification.
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  #115  
Old 07-25-2008, 07:21 PM
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I think Diana was this Queen Elizabeth's Essex. The Earl of Essex, like Diana, was young, good-looking, and charming and had won the hearts of the English people. He, also like Diana, made a public revolt against his Queen and gained quite a bit of public support.

The first Queen Elizabeth was asked to forgive the Earl and spare his life; The Queen supposedly said, Elizabeth the woman forgives from the bottom of her heart but Elizabeth the Queen cannot forgive. Essex was sent to his death and Elizabeth was a broken woman for the rest of her life.

I suspect that the present Queen Elizabeth had much the same feelings towards Diana that the first Queen Elizabeth had about Essex. As a fellow woman, she undoubtedly was troubled by Diana's pain and tried to understand her actions; but as a Queen, she could not forgive Diana's very public actions against the monarchy; the institution the Queen had dedicated her whole life to uphold.

Elizabeth the woman could, I suspect, easily forgive the woman, Diana, but I don't think Elizabeth, the Queen, could easily forgive the public actions of Diana, the Princess of Wales and that is, IMO, how it should be. As far as I know, Diana had no shame in her actions against the royal family and she never expressed regret.
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  #116  
Old 07-25-2008, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
As far as I know, Diana had no shame in her actions against the royal family and she never expressed regret.
To be fair, she never had the chance to express regret. I think in time she would have seen the damage she had done to he son's future.
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  #117  
Old 07-25-2008, 07:36 PM
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To be fair, she never had the chance to express regret. I think in time she would have seen the damage she had done to he son's future.
Diana had seven years from the time she first collaborated with Andrew Morton's book till her death to rethink things a bit but the only evidence I saw of that was she decided to change the venue of her message to television which wasn't exactly regretting that she had helped with the book.

So seven years and no sign of regret that I can see is significant, I believe and I think it would color the Queen's attitude towards Diana as a Queen and her reactions upon Diana's death. Her heart would be broken but the Queen in her would be concerned at publically honoring someone who had publicly undermined the family. I think its quite natural for the Queen to react that way.
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  #118  
Old 07-25-2008, 07:54 PM
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Don't forget that the Queen is also Charles' mother and as such would also have trouble with the way Diana treated the Queen's own son.

All the evidence suggests that the Queen is a loving mother and as such wouldn't want her children to be hurt by the actions of their partners.

I acknowledge that Charles did things to hurt Diana as well but I am just adding that besides Elizabeth being a woman and a Queen in her dealings and attitude to Diana she is also Charles' Mum and that would also be colouring the way she perceived Diana and the way Diana treated the RF and in members within it, who afterall were the Queen's own family.
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  #119  
Old 07-25-2008, 07:56 PM
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I agree with Ysbel 100%
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  #120  
Old 07-25-2008, 08:24 PM
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U know its been almost 11yrs i think that this subject has been talked about enough and i dont mean to offend or hurt anyones feelings but i think we need to close this thread bc if we dont stop talking about this subject the it will go on longer and again its been 11yrs. old so i think it would be best to just drop this subject. Thank You.


God Bless You All,
Brent R. von Behrens II
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