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  #81  
Old 09-24-2007, 11:01 AM
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Fine. Either way. May we agree that he has a relationship to the Queen? Good.

I was merely attempting to underline his hypocrisy at the time of his sister's death and his jump onto the "Criticize the Royal Family bandwagon".

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  #82  
Old 09-24-2007, 11:55 AM
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I think and this is not say that that I agree, that people under duress and grief say and do many strange thing. I feel guilt also rose its ugly head here. Charles Spencer, IMHO, was trying to make up for all the things he should have done for his sister when she was living. He was also very grief stricken. I think the whole Spencer family was. It was a very trying time. He directed his anger inappropriately, but everyone survived. As, I said, guilt on his part was a portion of that speech and maybe he did feel "righteous" anger as to how she was treated by her in-laws. No one really knows how he really felt. It is easy to criticize. What didn't happen was the walls didn't come tumbling down, he got it off his chest, right or wrong and the RF survived to go on. And practically no where on earth, except forums such as these is this even discussed. Life has gone on.
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  #83  
Old 09-26-2007, 06:48 PM
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I see what you mean now. I think I was a little snappy there.
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  #84  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:22 PM
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This is always the problem for an institution that makes a point of not answering back. The press wanted to deflect the blame from the paparazzi and the editors who were slavering over their photos, so where did they deflect it to? The cold unfeeling royal family who didn't treat her right when she was alive and who didn't care that she'd died. Mohamed Fayed, who owned the hotel, the apartment, and the driver and bodyguard (and possibly, if some reports are to be believed, the limo company itself), wanted to deflect the blame from his own turf, so where did he deflect it to? The evil and bigoted royal family who personified the Establishment that he was aching to be accepted by. Charles Spencer, who'd driven one wife to a nervous breakdown and was on his nth girlfriend by the time of Diana's death, and who'd recently spent months not on speaking terms with Diana, wanted to deflect the blame for not treating her right, so where did he deflect it to? The royal family, who didn't realise what a treasure they had and who ill treated her from the start, because as long as they were such bad people, it made him look better by comparison.

And where did the royal family deflect it to? Nowhere that I can see because the blame, for many years, stuck firmly to them, and people tended to forget the culpability of the press, the involvement of Fayed, and the stunning crassness of the behaviour of Charles Spencer. Very convenient to have the royals to blame for everything, but at least to an extent it's the action of a coward.
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  #85  
Old 09-27-2007, 05:39 AM
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Wow Elspeth, an absolutely brilliant post!
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  #86  
Old 09-27-2007, 07:50 AM
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i have to agree with elspeth. everyone was pointing the finger in the days following the accident - except the RF. charles spencer was the biggest disappointment IMO. the press...well you'd pretty much expect them to try to make someone else look bad but her own brother...he did virtually nothing to help her during or after the marriage but made no mention of his own shortcomings in terms of trying to make her life easier. HM knows that by responding to the media, you leave yourself open to misinterpretation and the whole "new can of worms" with every word you say and i think she was and is correct to stick to her guns and not say anything at all. people always say that if you don't respond you look guilty but the media ALWAYS turn it around. i'm not saying that she shouldn't have done anything but the criticism she received was out of order.
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  #87  
Old 09-27-2007, 11:47 AM
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Yes, that was brilliantly said, Elspeth. Everyone was looking for a scapegoat, and who better than the silent (read: "cold") royal family, who the press knew would not speak out in their own defense? Fayed played along, even fed the idea of the "royal enemy" because it deflected attention from his own implications.

"Diana was hounded to death by the press," said Earl Spencer.
To which the press retorted, "Well, if she had still been in a happy marriage, would she have been in that situation? No, no, it's the royals fault that she was in Paris unprotected, blah blah blah....."
And then Fayed comes out swinging: "Yes, the royals, they killed her! She was going to marry my son, and they hate me, so they killed her!"
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  #88  
Old 10-07-2007, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
This is always the problem for an institution that makes a point of not answering back. .
A. MEN. It was the blame game, and the RF lost.
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  #89  
Old 10-08-2007, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanishing Lady View Post
A. MEN. It was the blame game, and the RF lost.
In the short term perhaps. I'm not so sure they will be seen as the losers in the long term.
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  #90  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:35 PM
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Well, dear Elspeth, I must agree with you completely. The poor woman died in an automobile accident that could so easily been avoided, but then in hindsight so many many accidents, automobile and otherwise could have been so easily avoided.

I still say that a very good part, at least the audible and visual part, of the British public had a collective nervous breakdown, whether in this percentage of that percentage of cases it was a feigned or real nervous breakdown, it got very ugly and very spoiled childish.

And no matter what the RF did or did not they were going to be blamed because a young woman on a trist got in a car chased by a pack of crazed photograhpers wanting a picture of her and her latest love with a driver who was probably drunk. The car wrecked and the poor woman, who did not have on a seat belt, was killed. So somebody had to be blamed. Crazy, isn't it???
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  #91  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:51 PM
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Did the movie The Queen exaggerate her behavior? I don't really remember the focus being on her too much in America at least...but the movie made her look bad yet vulnerable at the same time...
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  #92  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:59 PM
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Did the movie The Queen exaggerate her behavior? I don't really remember the focus being on her too much in America at least...but the movie made her look bad yet vulnerable at the same time...
I't difficult to say whether the film exaggerated anything since it was a product of the script writer's imagination.
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  #93  
Old 10-09-2007, 01:32 PM
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I didn't see the movie as making her look bad, I still saw it as the public being the "one" who was being ridiculous (sp?) not the Queen, but that isn't the topic of discussion here is it? ^_^
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  #94  
Old 11-07-2007, 08:57 PM
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Oh, the scene with the stag...
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  #95  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomas Parkman View Post
Well, dear Elspeth, I must agree with you completely. The poor woman died in an automobile accident that could so easily been avoided, but then in hindsight so many many accidents, automobile and otherwise could have been so easily avoided.

I still say that a very good part, at least the audible and visual part, of the British public had a collective nervous breakdown, whether in this percentage of that percentage of cases it was a feigned or real nervous breakdown, it got very ugly and very spoiled childish.

And no matter what the RF did or did not they were going to be blamed because a young woman on a trist got in a car chased by a pack of crazed photograhpers wanting a picture of her and her latest love with a driver who was probably drunk. The car wrecked and the poor woman, who did not have on a seat belt, was killed. So somebody had to be blamed. Crazy, isn't it???
I believe if the queen had known Tony Blair for longer than she would have realized that he was going to upstage her with his "outburst of grief". I doubt John Major (or Baroness Thatcher) would have reacted in such a way, fuelling the public's reaction and showing the media where to go. Balir saw it as his chance to connect his image with that of Diana - beautiful, mistreated Diana and he used it no matter what.

I think that the public's reaction would have ben different, had Diana lived longer to be exposed with her playgirl-lifestyle she was just beginning to live and had Tony Blair been prime minister for longer. It was really bad timing for the RF, unfortunate timing. Time (and Diana) was playing into their hands, but her death changed all.
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  #96  
Old 11-08-2007, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I believe if the queen had known Tony Blair for longer than she would have realized that he was going to upstage her with his "outburst of grief". I doubt John Major (or Baroness Thatcher) would have reacted in such a way, fuelling the public's reaction and showing the media where to go. Balir saw it as his chance to connect his image with that of Diana - beautiful, mistreated Diana and he used it no matter what.

I think that the public's reaction would have ben different, had Diana lived longer to be exposed with her playgirl-lifestyle she was just beginning to live and had Tony Blair been prime minister for longer. It was really bad timing for the RF, unfortunate timing. Time (and Diana) was playing into their hands, but her death changed all.

Oh, goodness....could you imagine Baroness Thatcher reacting as dramatically as Tony Blair?

Yet incredibly out of character--and the press would have jumped all over her for "false sincerity" or some b.s. charge. Yet Blair got a pass, though it was obvious he was playing it false. I mean, come on...the "man of the people" suddenly going all maudlin over the death of some "royal tart"? Of course, such touchy-feely behavior made him look "sensitive" and "modern male". Ugh. Had Thatcher tried that little act, even at the beginning of her 1st term...

The timing played into Diana's (and those who lived off her) hands...because then it made her paranoia seem justified. The moment I'd heard that Diana was dead, part of me felt terrible for her boys, and the other part whispered "and here will come the tell-alls...". Cynic that I am.

And now...those who are profiting from the Diana Conspiracy have this inquest 10 YEARS LATER to keep it going.
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  #97  
Old 11-08-2007, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanishing Lady View Post
Oh, the scene with the stag...
That was the point. To have HM identify with something very beautiful and know that it was hounded/stalked to death. Makes it more touching.
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  #98  
Old 12-21-2007, 06:04 PM
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You forgot that dingbat Shirley MacLaine!!
I would have thought that William and Harry were rather stunned walking behind the casket. I would have been. And when the service actually started, the whole thing hit and then they let their emotions out.
I know Matt Lauer is a reporter, but boy, that's a pretty rude question IMO.
If I was Prince Harry, I'd teach this Matt Lauer a thing or two about polite speaking.... and I mean PHYSICALLY. Manners maketh Man... without manners we are just like any uncultured animal, and Matt Lauer is a good example.
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  #99  
Old 12-21-2007, 06:21 PM
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To this day, its still baffles me as to how the world just went totally out of control upon Diana's death... feeling so sorry for a woman who was more famous for her lavish clothing and sexual promiscuity, than protecting a lady who had stood firm through the tests of time to uphold family values and the welfare of her people. This is the ugly work of the press... And goes to show that even people in the "civilised" western world are still very easily led by the ugly press and dance to their tunes. I think the Queen showed great dignity and composure during Diana's death.
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  #100  
Old 07-06-2008, 11:21 AM
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I don't think it's fair to call the mourners "howling animals" but yes she was quite distracted.
It's disgraceful IMO that Burrell would trick his employer and soverign of many years. I wish he could just crawl back into his hole and dissapear from the public eye.
Unfortunately, that is how many of them acted. Not there to mourn Diana, but to bully HM into returning to London and bringing her grandsons back so they could 'see' them grieve.
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