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  #61  
Old 09-19-2007, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkie40 View Post
Perhaps if PM Blair hadn't immediately dubbed her the "People's Princess" and focused a bit more on the pain surely felt by the boys, then we, the mourning public, would have might had a bit more compassion to the Royal Family in a time for private emotions.
..... .....What is important is the royal family learned a lot about Diana and her fans all around the world...and the royals changed for the better because of this week.
Not all of the 'mourning public' lost their compassion for the real people affected by Diana's death.
To this day, I and many other Brits, IMO, who did not join in the disgraceful clamourings, are ashamed of what other people did and said that week!
Yes I'm sure that many people realised that week, that bullying can achieve a lot and I am not sure that the changes wrought by such bullying can be seen by all, as a change for the better.

Royalty should be seen as royalty, not some sort of celebrity.
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  #62  
Old 09-19-2007, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Not all of the 'mourning public' lost their compassion for the real people affected by Diana's death.
To this day, I and many other Brits, IMO, who did not join in the disgraceful clamourings, are ashamed of what other people did and said that week!
Yes I'm sure that many people realised that week, that bullying can achieve a lot and I am not sure that the changes wrought by such bullying can be seen by all, as a change for the better.

Royalty should be seen as royalty, not some sort of celebrity.
The Royal Household was partly to blame for the exaggerated celebrity stuff. As the Lord Chamberlain's office organized the funeral, it is they who must take responsibility for inviting a bunch of celebrities whose association with Diana can be at best described as acquaintance, and in some cases, hardly that. In so doing, the Royal Household fed sticks to the celebrity idea which was initiated by the press.
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  #63  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:02 PM
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Sorry Royalty is celebrity, at least today, they serve very little other purpose. Cutting ribbons and opening supermarkets is not the stuff science and medcine is made of. As for the "bullying" press, I doubt that could have exhorted such a reaction. The reaction may have been strange, especially for the stiff upper lip crowd, but it was genuine. Ten years later, it seems people still care. I shall not argue why, just that it exists. For those who chose to dislike the Princess that is their problem.
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  #64  
Old 09-19-2007, 11:16 PM
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I've read Christopher Hitchens' take on that week. He was not among the mourning nor was he the least bit impressed with the outpouring of sadness because he has Republican views. His views are valid just as anyone who wailed loudly and threw posies at the coffin.


If we were to really delve into the true persona of Diana, we wouldn't have to go too far to realize why the royals were hesitant with their affection towards Diana and we should not castigate their hesitance into not being consumed with overt and public sadness. She was the Princess for and of the people, no longer royal and met her death having a dirty weekend with an enemy playboy.

The RF learned to allow for a tiny bit more humanity and to ignore the low market tabloids, as per noted by William and Harry in the Lauer interview. I also think they have gone back to being a tad more boring and bit less focused on the glam side.....The way it used to be back in the good ol' "Dark Ages" pre-1980/81.
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  #65  
Old 09-20-2007, 10:50 AM
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I was an only child, age 39, when I lost both of my parents within a couple of months of each other. I was devastated and numb for months afterwards. I had spent two years, as their 24/7 caregiver and here in the US, I was in that house 24/7 with no relief. I slept for 3 days straight after my last parent passed away.

I cannot even begin to imagine what I would have felt or how I would have reacted had I been the focus of public attention during that period of time. I found it extremely challenging to even go to the grocery store the first couple of months, had I been exposed to photographers and reporters the second I stepped out my front door, I might well have starved to death and my pets too.

After my brief study of the Royal Family I have come to the conclusion that I HIGHLY prize my privacy.
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  #66  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:31 PM
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Perhaps had the royals had allowed the coffin of Diana to lie in state as per Churchill, many in the massive throngs would have quietly passed by, paid silent respects and gone back to their homes. Not that Diana technically "deserved" such an honor but if she was worthy enough to lie in repose in a royal chapel then she could have been accorded such an honor (since she was draped in the Royal Standard...).

I often wonder if Diana had died a year or two later when there was much more internet access than in 1997, how the guestbook situation (as a online condolence book was set up for the Queen Mum) would have worked out and how the queus would have been less than 12 hours-plus in duration.
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  #67  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
The Royal Household was partly to blame for the exaggerated celebrity stuff.
IMO, the 'celebrity' phase started when Diana started to do her own thing, while still married to Charles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS
As for the "bullying" press, I doubt that could have exhorted such a reaction. The reaction may have been strange, especially for the stiff upper lip crowd, but it was genuine
Even the media now calls it 'recreational grieving' or 'recreational mourners', (you get the flowers and I'll organise a coach).
BBC NEWS | UK | 'Mourning sickness is a religion'
ROGER SANDALL Spiked - Conspicuous Compassion
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  #68  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:52 PM
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IMO, the 'celebrity' phase started when Diana started to do her own thing, while still married to Charles.
Right, but she was not even friends with over half those Hollywood yoohahs who were invited to the funeral. She was hardly an acquaintance of the likes of Tom Hanks, Nicole Kidman, Steven Spielberg, Tom Cruise, for crying out loud, it was ridiculous. It was just a way for anyone with a marginal meeting with the princess at a random party to say "I knew her, so sad, look at me cry."
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  #69  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
Right, but she was not even friends with over half those Hollywood yoohahs who were invited to the funeral. She was hardly an acquaintance of the likes of Tom Hanks, Nicole Kidman, Steven Spielberg, Tom Cruise, for crying out loud, it was ridiculous. It was just a way for anyone with a marginal meeting with the princess at a random party to say "I knew her, so sad, look at me cry."
True, but I meant (and not in a derogatory way), that Diana was seen more as a celebrity than a royal at the time. I think the RF and Spencers simply worked their way through her address book.
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  #70  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:17 PM
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How sad that you would have to work from an address book. They did not know who her friends were or did she not have very many true friends. I don't mean that in a bad way, just that not to many people were very close to her.
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  #71  
Old 09-20-2007, 07:08 PM
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How sad that you would have to work from an address book. They did not know who her friends were or did she not have very many true friends. I don't mean that in a bad way, just that not to many people were very close to her.
I don't think having only a few close friends is necessarily a bad or sad thing. Some people do, some people don't. I'm a bit of a loner and have never had a lot of close friends.

One of the difficulties that flowed from the decision to hold a state funeral was that lots of people had to be found to fill the church. Since Diana was no longer a member of the RF the guest list couldn't have been made up of the people who would usually be invited to a Royal funeral.

I think another problem was that Diana compartmentalised her life and had different friends in the different compartments, and members of one compartment did not necessarily know about the others, and I wouldn't be surprised if her family (i.e. the Spencers) and Charles didn't know many of the people whose company she enjoyed in the last year. They didn't have much time to make up the list and send out invitations, and Diana's address book is the sort of resource I would be looking to for assistance in the circumstances.
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  #72  
Old 09-20-2007, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkie40 View Post
I've read Christopher Hitchens' take on that week. He was not among the mourning nor was he the least bit impressed with the outpouring of sadness because he has Republican views. His views are valid just as anyone who wailed loudly and threw posies at the coffin.


If we were to really delve into the true persona of Diana, we wouldn't have to go too far to realize why the royals were hesitant with their affection towards Diana and we should not castigate their hesitance into not being consumed with overt and public sadness. She was the Princess for and of the people, no longer royal and met her death having a dirty weekend with an enemy playboy.

The RF learned to allow for a tiny bit more humanity and to ignore the low market tabloids, as per noted by William and Harry in the Lauer interview. I also think they have gone back to being a tad more boring and bit less focused on the glam side.....The way it used to be back in the good ol' "Dark Ages" pre-1980/81.
What do you mean by a "dirty week-end, with an enemy playboy"? Very strange words.
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  #73  
Old 09-20-2007, 08:59 PM
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What do you mean by a "dirty week-end, with an enemy playboy"? Very strange words.
"Dirty Weekend"-- I thought this was a common and well-known British term denoting a weekend away in the intimate company of someone a person was not married to.

dirty weekend - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Dodi, while probably being a nice and otherwise gentle person, was the son of an enemy of the Establishment involved in scandal after scandal.
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  #74  
Old 09-20-2007, 09:15 PM
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How can any of us judge how the people felt who accepted an invitation to the funeral? What matters, even if they were names in a very beautiful address book, is that they showed up and made the effort to come to pay tribute to her and show support to her sons. I would surmise from all I have read about Diana that she had very passionate and emotionally charged interactions with most people who crossed her red carpeted path...not all of them being perfect and well-defined. Diana was herself far from being perfect or well-defined, imo.

Who will forget Luciano Pavarotti staggering in tears to the nearest seat. What about Hasnat Khan in sunglasses in the Abbey and obviously in distress?
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  #75  
Old 09-20-2007, 09:36 PM
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I think another problem was that Diana compartmentalised her life and had different friends in the different compartments, and members of one compartment did not necessarily know about the others, and I wouldn't be surprised if her family (i.e. the Spencers) and Charles didn't know many of the people whose company she enjoyed in the last year. They didn't have much time to make up the list and send out invitations, and Diana's address book is the sort of resource I would be looking to for assistance in the circumstances.
This is an excellent point. In her short but busy adult life, she did manage to acquaint herself with all manner of societies: Hollywood, fashion designers, journalists, charity administration, medical professionals, diplomats, political people, lawyers, all filling up one hell of an "address book". To say nothing of the mainstays in her life, the friends and the staff and her "rock"! Somehow I doubt Hallmark ever made an address book big enough to store Diana's acquaintances. Did they have PDAs in 1997? I don't remember!
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  #76  
Old 09-22-2007, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
This is an excellent point. In her short but busy adult life, she did manage to acquaint herself with all manner of societies: Hollywood, fashion designers, journalists, charity administration, medical professionals, diplomats, political people, lawyers, all filling up one hell of an "address book". To say nothing of the mainstays in her life, the friends and the staff and her "rock"! Somehow I doubt Hallmark ever made an address book big enough to store Diana's acquaintances. Did they have PDAs in 1997? I don't remember!
Lol, I don't think so CasiraghiTrio . In 1997, a mobile phone was the size of a brick. Diana had so much more "acquaintances" than true friends. I still think that even today, some people knew her but we don't know who.
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  #77  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:00 AM
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My 2 cents.

I agree with post #10 -- with all the anger directed at the press, they were looking to deflect it to an easy (and large) target. Survival tactic.

Personally I feel that the Queen had her grandsons in mind and that overrode everything else. She is also a person of habit. She takes comfort in tradition and ritual. I'm sure Diana's death was as much of a shock to her as she knew (as a person who has faced deaths of close family before) it would be to her grandchildren. As a mother and as a grandmother she did what she could to minimize the stress of the Princess of Wales' death for the children's sake because she knew the sharks would be circling. I feel that she wanted to protect them for as long as she could.

Did she act too slowly? By today's standards, yes, but I don't think she was thinking exclusively as a monarch (except with the issue of the royal standard and its mast, which I thought was blown out of all proportion as part of that deflection on the part of the media) at first. She is a traditionalist, she is conservative, and she is, above all, correct in her actions. She eventually came around, but I think she was judged too harshly and by today's "feel-good, touchy-feely" culture.

Conversely, you know what they would have said if she immediately returned to London with the Wales children in tow: "Why is she forcing them to come back so soon after their mother's death? What's she trying to do, throw them into the fire? Too old-fashioned! She should have let them have a week up in Scotland before coming back so they could perhaps have some 'quality time', blah, blah, blah..."

Darned if she did, darned if she didn't. She couldn't win with a desperate press, a PR-savvy PM, and a son-in-law willing to excoriate her family while committing his own personal sins.
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  #78  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:08 AM
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Who is the son-in-law? I do not know to whom you are referring.
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  #79  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:15 AM
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Sorry -- Diana's brother, Charles Spencer. I was working out in my head how to refer to him and I thought I'd emphasize the "in-law" aspect of his relationship to HM to make my point.
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  #80  
Old 09-24-2007, 06:00 AM
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Sorry -- Diana's brother, Charles Spencer. I was working out in my head how to refer to him and I thought I'd emphasize the "in-law" aspect of his relationship to HM to make my point.
Charles Spencer is her godson I believe.
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