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  #441  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by EIIR View Post

The Queen allowed herself to be controlled by a baying media and a government which would gladly have seen the back of the monarchy. It was one of the worst moments in the history of the monarchy in my opinion.
A Royal family is always in a way controlled by the media and their people. Normally the RF performs public duties in representation of the people and the media makes these events public, so that more people can feel represented than attended the actual event. They all have an interest to show the representatives of the country, its tradition, possibilities and fame in a positive way because this reflects what the people themselves feel.

But not all the media is system-conform and wants to integrate the British people and their representatives. Scandal sells and Royal scandals sell even more papers. Diana understood that system extremely well and had played the public via her media contacts for quite some time.

So when she died the media had several points on the agenda: to deflect from their methods which were partly responsible for Diana's death, to create emotion and scandal and thus raise the public interest in their products (papers, advertisement breaks on TV). To represent the people. To force the Royals' and politicians' hands (playing power games).

What they didn't understand is that allowing the masses to decide in an emotional situation might lead to uncontrollable behaviour - and from some point onwards the media did not longer control the game, but had to go with it. And Blair showed what popularist he was: giving up Britains Royal dignitiy and traditions to cater to the masses.

No wonder the queen took her time to react to that boiling pot of resentiments, grief and (media-induced) enmity of the people who should be their people.
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  #442  
Old 06-05-2011, 05:39 PM
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I think a private period of family grieving was what the royals intended, judging from their behavior immediately after Diana's death. And looking back on that period it's easy to say in retrospect that they should have stayed on that course despite what the public, the press and the government ,(not to mention the Spencers?),were demanding. But saying that now, with the benefit of many years' hindsight, when things have settled down and in fact many people have come to see the public's reaction as ridiculous is one thing. But if the royal family had had not bent at the time I wonder what kind of hysterical vitriol they would have subjected themselves to, and how much additional pain that would have caused the young princes. IMO the Queen correctly saw that people weren't going to let up until they got their public spectacle and did the best she could with a horrible set of circumstances.
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  #443  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:10 AM
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In this they certainly weren't helped by a Prime Minister suddenly thrust into the international limelight and milking it for all it was worth both nationally and internationally. And let us never forget we have him to thank for that ghastly iconic spectral term "the people's Princess", which continues to haunt us to this day.
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  #444  
Old 06-22-2011, 02:07 AM
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In my opinion, it was wrong of her to first deny Diana any royal protocol and to demand that her body being kept at a funeral home. Not so much from a public point of view, but I can't help thinking what kind of message it sent to the boys.

My respect for prince Charles grew emmensely, because whatever feelings he himself had, he was able to do the decent thing.

And before I get eaten alive, I know that the Queen is duty first and there was no precendence for this, but there is human decency, which in my book always comes first.
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  #445  
Old 06-22-2011, 05:01 AM
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NO she did not act appropriate, but she understood the situation and she cought up. This is an intelligent person.
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  #446  
Old 06-22-2011, 05:11 AM
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With hindsight...

The Queen should have gone down to London immediately.
She should have spoken to the Country.
Wales and Spencer should have behaved better.

I'm glad that the British found it in themselves to show raw emotion.
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  #447  
Old 06-22-2011, 05:21 AM
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So she should have left her grieving grandsons, who had just lost their mother, to play to the baying mob? The mob should have been ashamed of themselves making demands on the grandmother of the children of Diana. One person who would have been delighted that the Queen and the rest of the royal family put the boys first would have been Diana - who advocated exactly that attitude - that there were times when duty had to be put aside for family. What you are advocating is the exact opposite of what Diana would have wanted.

Wales behaved impeccably - he spoke up for the mother of his children and represented them to his mother.

Spencer should have been locked up for treason for that eulogy which was a blantant attack on his monarch.

I was horrified at the mob mentality of the British public but they were stirred up by the media who simply wanted to divert attention from their own role in Diana's death because if they did that then they would have to also point out to Diana's fans that they were also responsible for her death.
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  #448  
Old 06-22-2011, 06:45 AM
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I think she thought what she thought was the norm.She thought she was being proper because Diana was divorced.
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  #449  
Old 06-22-2011, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
I think she thought what she thought was the norm.She thought she was being proper because Diana was divorced.

I think she was being a loving grandmother in whose homes her grandsons were staying when they got the news that their beloved mother died.

If that was your next door neighbour what would you expect her to do? Go to work or stay with the grandsons for a week or so? What would you employer expect you to do? I know what mine would say but of course the Queen's employers - the mob - felt that they were more entitled to the Queen's presence the than two children who knew the deceased best and who were actually staying with their grandmother at the time.
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  #450  
Old 06-22-2011, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
So she should have left her grieving grandsons, who had just lost their mother, to play to the baying mob? .
Nobody said this. She was not obliged to be CONSTANTLY out! She could come back to London WITH the boys, address to the people 5 minutes, and return back home WITH the boys! Do not say that staying in holidays she was CONSTANTLY with the boys!
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  #451  
Old 06-22-2011, 08:54 AM
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I've given this topic a lot of thought over the years.

My initial reaction, at the time of Diana's death, was rather alike to the reported response of Mother Theresa's (who was also on her own deathbed) when being told Diana died - she responded, if I recall correctly, (and I cannot provide a citation) along the lines of it was very sad but maybe it was for the best. These were not her exact words - I forget how they were formed - but the context was that if she was going to die, it was best that she died before she could have become ... unhappier / unwiser.

I've read it several times but cannot find it at the moment as I forget the actual wording and cannot remember the person quoted. It was not mean or vindictive at all - but I remember it summing up my feelings exactly.

I was astounded and disgusted by the outpouring of grief from newspapers/people that had been calling her names and casting aspersions on her character. I was disgusted that Mother's Teresa's death went virtually unnoticed because of Diana's death. I was profoundly sad that the English people chose to call out the Monarch on her response to it. My response, in a nutshell: How DARE they!

Did she handle it "appropriately"? I don't have a clue what "appropriate" might mean in this context. I do know that I think she handled it as *she* thought was appropriate - which was sufficient for me.

I am not a Diana fan, never was, and came to nearly "hate" her towards the end of her life. I saw her as a manipulative, petulant "me generation" selfish individual who brought a quality to the monarchy that made me less respectful of it. I mourned the loss of the "nobility" in the "royalty" and wished she would just shut the hell up with all her boo-hoo self pity and start acting, as one reporter so famously put it, "like a princess!". I was tired of her crap already.

So, I assumed that the Queen was similarly tired of her and angry at her for the damage done. Given this thought mode, the public baying at her door for a more overt show of grief, made me angry at the public and I just always assumed the Queen was exerting a sort of royal authority and dignity as a matter of setting precedents and establishing a cause and effect pattern, which I consider a smart move. The lesson: The Sovereign will do what the subjects need and the Sovereign will consider their needs, but the Sovereign is not a wind up doll that cries and laughs on demand. Even for Diana. Maybe even especially for Diana. Diana caused a lot of damage to the institution the Queen had spent all of her considerable life protecting.

I consider it a proof of her great strength of character that she stayed her course as long as she did, did was that necessary in the end and did it all with a straight face - which is more than Diana would have given her.

The question is less "Do I think the Queen acted appropriately" to which the answer is, as based above, "yes". The real question should be "Did the Commonwealth people act appropriately towards the Queen when Diana died?" to which the answer, as based above, is "no". Shame on us all. We forgot who stood by us and who didn't. We forgot who always did her duty and who didn't. We forgot who is noble and who wasn't. We forgot who walked the walk and who just talked the talk. Shame on us.
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  #452  
Old 06-22-2011, 11:01 AM
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Dear CathrineJ,

With all do respect, you can hardly fault Diana for what happened after her death. But to loose your life at the age of 36 in such a horrible way is always very shocking and a great tragedy. And I think that many people around the world suddently got a wake up call, that life is fragile even for royals.

Today the monarchs role is to be a uniting force, especially in a crisis. And to me it look like Britain was in a major crisis in the week following Dianas death. The boys were not orphaned, so the responsability of them was on Charles. Therefore I believe that had she given her tribute on the morning of Dianas death, she would have come across as a caring, loving grand mother and have expressed the need for privacy. Instead the came across as cold and insincere (This is my opinion) and forced against her will.
I actually believed her speech,and I think Diana and the Queen had great affection for each other, but the whole set up was wrong.

I'm certain that when the day comes Her Majesty will be mourned deeply, but she will have come to a natural closure of her life and therefore it is not tragic and she will not leave behind to underaged children. It can never be that shocking and unexpected.
.
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  #453  
Old 06-22-2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olebabs View Post
Dear CathrineJ,

With all do respect, you can hardly fault Diana for what happened after her death. But to loose your life at the age of 36 in such a horrible way is always very shocking and a great tragedy. And I think that many people around the world suddently got a wake up call, that life is fragile even for royals.
I don't blame Diana for what happened after her death. I do, however, hold her responsible for what happened during her life.

Diana's death was a terrible tragedy. While I do not for one second believe she "deserved" to die, it seems that she was hell bent on self destruction and I, for one, did not find it as "shocking" as others did. Which is not to say I did not find it sad and tragic. I just did not feel very personally affected - to my mind she was a "come and gone" and was no longer a part of the royal family, much like the Duchess of York, her position as mother to the future king notwithstanding. My sense of loss was not remotely what it would have been were it a member of the royal family to whom I felt I owed my allegiance. To each his own response, I guess :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by olebabs View Post
Today the monarchs role is to be a uniting force, especially in a crisis. And to me it look like Britain was in a major crisis in the week following Dianas death. The boys were not orphaned, so the responsability of them was on Charles. Therefore I believe that had she given her tribute on the morning of Dianas death, she would have come across as a caring, loving grand mother and have expressed the need for privacy. Instead the came across as cold and insincere (This is my opinion) and forced against her will.
I actually believed her speech,and I think Diana and the Queen had great affection for each other, but the whole set up was wrong.

I'm certain that when the day comes Her Majesty will be mourned deeply, but she will have come to a natural closure of her life and therefore it is not tragic and she will not leave behind to underaged children. It can never be that shocking and unexpected.
Yes, I see your point.

However, I was one of those who felt the people were asking for something unreasonable and irrational and I felt angry that the Queen was browbeat into acting in a way that went against her natural instinct and her sense of duty. After all that Diana did to harm the institution (my opinion) it seemed to me that the Queen might find it insulting to have to give her honors that even her own Mother was not entitled to have (flag at half mast, etc.) after all that had happened. Whether the reports of her "affection" for Diana are true or not is anyone's guess as the Queen does not make such statements.

Tragic and terrible, yes - but the public wave of emotion feels a little (it did to me then and it does to many others now) like a case of mass irrational hysteria.

Diana - if nothing else, she is polarizing.

Thanks for your reply.
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  #454  
Old 06-22-2011, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
So she should have left her grieving grandsons, who had just lost their mother, to play to the baying mob? The mob should have been ashamed of themselves making demands on the grandmother of the children of Diana. One person who would have been delighted that the Queen and the rest of the royal family put the boys first would have been Diana - who advocated exactly that attitude - that there were times when duty had to be put aside for family. What you are advocating is the exact opposite of what Diana would have wanted.

Wales behaved impeccably - he spoke up for the mother of his children and represented them to his mother.

Spencer should have been locked up for treason for that eulogy which was a blantant attack on his monarch.

I was horrified at the mob mentality of the British public but they were stirred up by the media who simply wanted to divert attention from their own role in Diana's death because if they did that then they would have to also point out to Diana's fans that they were also responsible for her death.
This was very well said indeed. I think Her Majesty acted appropriately at that time, because she wanted to give her grandsons a chance to mourn in private, and that was the right thing to do. Imagine, being 15 and 12, losing a beloved mother, and then having to go out and smile and nod while people express [I]their[I] sorrow. She understood that this was time to be with one's family, and not worry about the desires of the public (at least not right away). I feel that the entire family was pressured to play to the fiddle of the public and the British government.

Just my views, so please, no need to shoot me.
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  #455  
Old 06-22-2011, 02:11 PM
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They didn't have to go out and smile. Harry asked at the church servie, "are you sure mummy is dead", as, coldly, no metion of her name. If she was such a loving grandmother, protocol would have been a second thought. The family would have sat down and talked about what would happen. These boys adored their mother. It was, obviously, a shock for all. But the queen only thought of herself and protocol. Even Charles, knew the right thing to do and flew to Paris, aginst his mother's wishes.
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  #456  
Old 06-22-2011, 02:12 PM
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Cathrine J, I agree with you, that what the press and Tony Blair did to HM, was bullying and not very pretty. Yes it was mass histeria beyond belief. I certainly didn't want to seem to support that, it was however the situation. The only thing I ment to say was, had she reacted a bit sooner, this uglyness could well have been avoided.

Now prince Charles showed himself like a man, and got the respect of his people. At least after a while.
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by olebabs View Post
Now prince Charles showed himself like a man, and got the respect of his people. At least after a while.
Agreed. I gained immense respect for Charles over the whole business. I thought he put his shoulders back, stepped up and did his duty - as a father and as the future King. Ironically, I will say that it was at the point of Diana's funeral that I realized how much the whole marriage debacle had harmed him and the monarchy and that I began to have great sympathy for him as a human being and great hopes for him as a King.
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  #458  
Old 06-22-2011, 04:05 PM
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This discussion makes me sick. Get over it, girls. Let Diana lie in peace, and give the Queen a break. I'd like to know how well anyone of us would have done in the same incredibly difficult circumstances.
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  #459  
Old 06-22-2011, 04:33 PM
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I still feel outraged by the public to dare to demand to see the poor boys in such a situation - would they want THEIR children be put through such an ordeal?

When the Queen opted for a privat funeral of Diana, I'm shure she thought also of the boys; for them that would have been much easier to bear than to go out greet people, walk behind her coffin and all the other things they had to perform.

It was the media who put people up to that frenzie ... My heart still bleeds for them, when these pictures are shown.

Will & Harry learnt a very hard lesson in these day's - they leant, that the mob only thinks of themselves - without compasion for others.
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  #460  
Old 06-22-2011, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
I still feel outraged by the public to dare to demand to see the poor boys in such a situation - would they want THEIR children be put through such an ordeal?

When the Queen opted for a privat funeral of Diana, I'm shure she thought also of the boys; for them that would have been much easier to bear than to go out greet people, walk behind her coffin and all the other things they had to perform.

It was the media who put people up to that frenzie ... My heart still bleeds for them, when these pictures are shown.

Will & Harry learnt a very hard lesson in these day's - they leant, that the mob only thinks of themselves - without compasion for others.
She opted for a private funeral, because once again Diana was stealing the stage and she wasn't royal any longer. Actually, Harry and William have never referred to them as a "mob". They knew their mother was "loved" , I just used that word for lack of any other and to this day, I believe, from what they've said that gave them comfort. Life's kick, if Charles had died, there would have been no private funeral talk and the boys would have walked behind his coffin, too. It would just have been a different parent they were burying. No one would have spared them that. Unfortnately, when you get the "big bucks" you are no longer allowed the privicy of those at the bottom.
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