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  #341  
Old 01-24-2009, 04:57 AM
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On whether the Queen was bullied, we will have to differ. Every news broadcast and TV station here constantly showed the recreational grievers in London, demanding the return of the Royal Family from Scotland. IMO, they all put their wants before the needs of the boys and their family.

You seem to be quoting sections from the film, regarding senior courtiers and Blair, none of which is know, but the comparison to the reaction of the fans at a football match was quite good, IMO.

The film was fiction mixed with a few facts.

I am not doubting for one moment that Harry did indeed ask his Dad, if she was really dead. It is the question many children ask of a remaining adult when a parent has died. But as I have said, IMO, you are mixing known fact with fiction.
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  #342  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GillW View Post
Having sat in that Church with HM present during a service, I doubt very much that, if he did say anything like that, he could have been overheard.
Nice to have an "informed opinion".

Quote:
Originally Posted by GillW View Post
The locals would rather strangle their granny than let slip any unguarded royal words...
A little drastic perhaps but nontheless probably true. They don't call the Scots "staunch" for nothing!
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  #343  
Old 01-27-2009, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
A little drastic perhaps but nonetheless probably true. They don't call the Scots "staunch" for nothing!
Most Scots, especially those in the villages revere the elderly, especially their grannies, so they wouldn't consider strangling them!

Incomers however might sell their stories and even in a tight knit community, 'there is always one'!
  #344  
Old 01-27-2009, 06:55 AM
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OK, so no strangled grannies . . . . . but what about strangled journos?
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  #345  
Old 01-28-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post

On whether the Queen was bullied, we will have to differ. Every news broadcast and TV station here constantly showed the recreational grievers in London, demanding the return of the Royal Family from Scotland. IMO, they all put their wants before the needs of the boys and their family.

You seem to be quoting sections from the film, regarding senior courtiers and Blair, none of which is know, but the comparison to the reaction of the fans at a football match was quite good, IMO.

The film was fiction mixed with a few facts.

I am not doubting for one moment that Harry did indeed ask his Dad, if she was really dead. It is the question many children ask of a remaining adult when a parent has died. But as I have said, IMO, you are mixing known fact with fiction.
Acutally all of that if from the documentary the Windsors and Sarah Bradford's book Diana. None it comes from the movie. I believe people were already laying flowers down before the press attacked the RF and already shedding tears as well. The press made it bigger, yes, but the emotions were already there.
  #346  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marino01 View Post
Acutally all of that if from the documentary the Windsors and Sarah Bradford's book Diana. None it comes from the movie. I believe people were already laying flowers down before the press attacked the RF and already shedding tears as well. The press made it bigger, yes, but the emotions were already there.
There were certainly flowers been laid before the press turned on the RF. As I remember events:

death announced
people laying flowers
people accusing press of killing Diana
press turns on RF


Because of the accusations made by the original few who were laying flowers the press were able to create a situation where more people felt they had to do the same thing and also turn on the RF.
  #347  
Old 01-28-2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marino01 View Post
Acutally all of that if from the documentary the Windsors and Sarah Bradford's book Diana. None it comes from the movie. I believe people were already laying flowers down before the press attacked the RF and already shedding tears as well. The press made it bigger, yes, but the emotions were already there.
David Starkey is very good but neither he nor Bradford were there at Balmoral to be able to say what was actually said. They can postulate but that is all it can be. David Starkey also made this comment
Quote:
What Diana did is kill the sort of monarchy that had been created in 1917. A monarchy based on notions of public decency, self restraint, commitment in marriage and so on. And that all goes out of the window with Diana
Yes some people laid flowers but at that time they were blaming the media (not themselves of course), the media very carefully turned it around to put the blame of HM and the Royal Family. Then complete and utter madness followed where the press and people put their needs before the needs of two young boys and the rest of the Royal Family.
  #348  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
David Starkey is very good but neither he nor Bradford were there at Balmoral to be able to say what was actually said. They can postulate but that is all it can be.
I would like to be able to say that they didn't intend to mislead the public in their various books/articles but Fiction always outsells Non-Fiction.

These jackals create a fantasy and try to sell it as fact. It never ceases to amaze me how incredibly gullible some people are. They never seem to actually want to apply the acid test:

Who wrote this? =

Did they witness this personally? =

Are they credible?" =

The fact that so many are fully paid up memebers of the 'Flat Earth Society' seems to be completely irrelevant!
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  #349  
Old 01-29-2009, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Most Scots, especially those in the villages revere the elderly, especially their grannies, so they wouldn't consider strangling them!

Incomers however might sell their stories and even in a tight knit community, 'there is always one'!
Precisely my point - having witnessed how protective and respectful (yet not grovelling) everyone in that church was towards HM, I just cannot believe that anyone there would pass on such remarks. Everyone who came to the service with HM present, who was not a regular at the services of the Church, was gently but firmly directed well out of "earshot" yet still welcomed into the congregation.

The royals even enter & leave via a side door, direct into their vehicles parked immediately outside, so there would not even be anyone who might have heard the remark as the group moved into or out of their seats - they simply do not pass anyone...
  #350  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
David Starkey is very good but neither he nor Bradford were there at Balmoral to be able to say what was actually said.
None of us will truly knows what happens. All the things we say here just projects the people's voices we chose to listen to.
  #351  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:37 PM
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I Agree with Mr Starky that the George V 1917 Stiff upper lip was better than the Diana Media Free for All. Diana did alot of good but not ALL good and as for the Queen she did the best she could.
  #352  
Old 03-19-2009, 02:41 PM
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I Agree with Mr Starky that the George V 1917 Stiff upper lip was better than the Diana Media Free for All. Diana did alot of good but not ALL good and as for the Queen she did the best she could.
Very notable summary, RoyalFan.

The Queen did the best she could with the resources available to her, which included her own life experience, and under trying circumstances. HM did "good," but not all good. HM has done so, always. In the final analysis, the Queen's life will be remembered for her constant devotion to her duty and her perception of what that entailed. I hope she lives to a greater age than did her mother.

Similarly, and as you stated, Diana of Wales did the best she could with the resources and life experience available to her as well, and under trying times. She did "good," but not all good.

In the end, such an epitaph could be more than others could claim, and since each of these women can, it's interesting to note.
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  #353  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:26 PM
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I couldn't believe (now or then) how much agitation this caused people. I always thought that increasing the amount of stress on the family (Diana's children!) was horribly representative of just how selfish the public can be. I'd rather have a genuine reaction to a sudden loss any day then a scripted phony one.

And as far as I am concerned, HM does not make mistakes in matters of protocol.
  #354  
Old 03-19-2009, 11:02 PM
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I think everybody realized Diana's death was going to be huge, except perhaps the Royals. But from their perspective one can see why they thought it might not be a big deal. Diana's death had a response to it that was more like a response to the death of a celebrity than royalty. The Queen acted as she saw fit- it was sincere. She just acted as tradition dictates, which is what she always has done. I don't think she knew how big of a deal Diana's death would be either. I wouldn't criticize how she acted, not that she ever understood Diana because Diana and the Queen were two very different people. Earl Spencer made that speech which had some insincerity in it, in my view. But the Queen acted sincerely I think in her speech etc. I think she tried to understand Diana, but there was quite a gap between them.
  #355  
Old 03-20-2009, 01:56 PM
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I didn't expect to see people breaking down in the streets of London or the ocean of flowers outside Kensington Palace. I expected there to be tears and memorials, but I didn't expect what happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace Angel View Post
I think everybody realized Diana's death was going to be huge, except perhaps the Royals.
  #356  
Old 03-20-2009, 02:13 PM
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I believe the Queen acted that week as a grandmother rather than a Queen. She was protecting her grand children who had just lost their mother. I wouldn't want my grandchioldren to be hounded by the press and to reveal what i personally felt about a death just because i'm quen. There is a right time to tell the public and a wrong. To go out and talk to the camera to return to london the day after your daughter-in-law, the mother of the future king died is a wrong one. Yes the public deserve her majesties support. But before her own son and grandsons. I don't think so. I applaud what her majesty did, for staying with her family and looking after them. Not leaving to attend to a country.
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  #357  
Old 03-20-2009, 03:34 PM
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I defintely think the Royals were surprised about the public outpouring of grief for Diana, which does in part explain their reaction. As Mermaid1962 posted, even ordinary people didn't expect all that ourpouring of grief. The Royals ( The Queen, etc) didn't understand how much of a celebrity Diana was, because royalty is different than celebrity and their kind of fame, their definition of it didn't fit with Diana's type of fame. I was 11 when Diana died, but I wasn't surprised by the outpouring of grief because so many people related to her so easily- they mourned her as if she was family. The Queen and the Royal Family mourned too, but they've always been private about grief.
  #358  
Old 03-20-2009, 09:08 PM
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I love your ativar. You are in my opinion right about the public and the royals reactions about Diana, Princess of Wales' death.
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  #359  
Old 03-22-2009, 12:51 AM
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When I watched the movie "The Queen" (with Hellen Mirren), I saw that she didn't act like her heart said, but how a monarch should act. Diana was no longer a member of The Royal Family, so a State Funeral was not necessary. You see Queen Mother (played by Sylvia Syms) saying (not sure if she says with this same words, but it's something like this): "Do you think you predecessors would leave all because a band of hysterical carrying candles needed help with their grief?". These words make you think if she was wrong or right. Tradiction is no longer always healthy. But I think something was really unnecessary like put the flag at a half mast. Diana was not a queen.
  #360  
Old 03-22-2009, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by White Princess View Post
When I watched the movie "The Queen" (with Hellen Mirren), I saw that she didn't act like her heart said, but how a monarch should act.
You do realise it is a total work of fiction don't you? The feelings and actions attributed to the Queen and the BRF, especially while still at Balmoral, are an interpretation of what the script writer "thought" "might" have happened. All quoted "conversations" are totally fictional.

On a personal note, I believe the Queen acted first and foremost as a Grandmother, and a damned fine on at that!
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