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  #261  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
Speaking for myself, I have no wish to bash the RF. No one is all good or all bad. But here we are eleven years on, and there are still people who feel a need to undermine Diana's contributions and memory on a daily basis. If they dislike her so much, if she was so insignificant in their opinion, why give the subject that much time and energy? Their reasons are their own, but as long as it continues I suppose comments that put things in perspective are to be expected.
Exactly the reason many people post their opinions against the woman, I don't see it as a need to bash her, anymore than those who perhaps feel a need to bash other posters who didn't like the woman!
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  #262  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
Speaking for myself, I have no wish to bash the RF. No one is all good or all bad. But here we are eleven years on, and there are still people who feel a need to undermine Diana's contributions and memory on a daily basis. If they dislike her so much, if she was so insignificant in their opinion, why give the subject that much time and energy? Their reasons are their own, but as long as it continues I suppose comments that put things in perspective are to be expected.
These are separate issues. No one tried to undermine or diminish Diana's contributions or memory. I do not believe anyone dislikes her and no one believes she was insignificant.
The thread is about the response of the BRF after the announcement of her death. In my view the people who adored Diana wanted some sort of comfort at the expense of the Royal Family. All the nuances were discussed here so many times it is pointless to go over them again.
The BRF IMHO did all it could for a person who was no longer a member of the family and who tried numerous times to insult them in many ways.
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  #263  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:27 PM
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In my very personal opinion... Similar to any other societal institution, the British Royal family did nothing for the late Princess Diana, but for the survival of their institution due to the reaction ( I am not sure whether or not this public outcry was expected) to Princess Diana's death. This funeral and Queen's bow, which really shocked my mother, were just measures needed to be taken to mitigate the overall situation and let the vulgar herd cool down. Her Majesty protected the institution she has been representing, but not caring for her ex daughter-in-law.
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  #264  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:33 PM
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There is no doubt that HM is from the old school, where the institution is larger than the individual and duty comes above all else.
I suppose if I were her I would not have liked her if she were my DIL. From the time the umbrellas came out at the Royal Ascot on, it had been a non stop effort to undermine the RF. Well.........it went downhill since that point in my view.
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  #265  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
These are separate issues. No one tried to undermine or diminish Diana's contributions or memory. I do not believe anyone dislikes her and no one believes she was insignificant.
I realize they are separate issues; I was responding to one of kimebear's comments.

As for people not undermining her, well, there I disagree. A good portion of the comments in Diana's threads are negative. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it amuses me that so much time and energy is devoted to a woman they apparently (based on the comments) did not respect and who's been dead for 11 years. Since Camilla is more of a supportive spouse, rather than a proactive one, I guess there isn't that much news to talk about. I don't know...
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  #266  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
but it amuses me that so much time and energy is devoted to a woman they apparently (based on the comments) did not respect.......SNIPPED. Since Camilla is more of a supportive spouse, rather than a proactive one, I guess there isn't that much news to talk about. I don't know
Am I on the wrong thread again? I thought we had separate threads to discuss Camilla and Diana, although I have to agree, the effort involved in every thread to undermine the woman many profess to dislike, Camilla, is amusing! I suppose there isn't much recent news regarding Diana though!
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  #267  
Old 08-04-2008, 05:03 PM
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The role of a consort is to support not to overshadow. I don´t know about not respecting her, when she was the wife of the Prince of Wales she got all the respect that is due to the wife of the Prince of Wales. It was when she she tried to undermine the RF,and don´t tell me that by publicly on TV saying she didn´t think that Prince Charles would be a good King, and when she in the presence of the two princes voted on a poll about abolishing the royal family, I believe she jokingly said that they had made 200 phone in votes, was not trying to do just this.
When she and Prince Charles divorced it was only natural she would lose any respect that was only hers because of her marriage e.g.a mention in the Church service.
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  #268  
Old 08-04-2008, 05:04 PM
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AHEM!

The CCD battle had better not be breaking out again.

Thank you...
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  #269  
Old 08-04-2008, 05:36 PM
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Back to the original question: Did the Queen act appropriately in the days following Diana's death?

For whatever reason, the queen et.al didn't like Diana, but the royal family is a public institution and the public had a right to expect a public statement -- which they eventually got in a somewhat ok fashion as a diplomatic effort.

I don't care why the queen didn't like Diana, or why anyone else related to the queen might not have liked Diana. Diana was the best thing that happened to the monarchy in the last few hundred years, and her place as queen of hearts needed to be acknowledged, no matter how unpleasant it was for those in the royal family who might have felt jealous of those facts.

Even though the queen eventually capitulated and bowed her head, I feel it was too little too late.
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  #270  
Old 08-04-2008, 05:41 PM
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Thumbs up

Well said, Zhontella.
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  #271  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zhontella View Post
Back to the original question: Did the Queen act appropriately in the days following Diana's death?
Whether the Queen liked or disliked Diana, and I only ever seen a few comments on boards like this to say that she didn't, as we have never heard the Queen say so, the point was that she did have one overriding responsibility that week - to see to the welfare of Diana's sons who happened to be staying with her when Diana died.

That the Queen actually did so was the right thing to do.

The public, who didn't know Diana personally, but thought that they did due to the way she courted the press to push her own agenda, had NO rights to demand anything of the grandmother of Diana's sons.

Throughout her life Diana constantly portrayed the RF as being cold and heartless and putting duty first. When the RF actually do the opposite i.e. put the care of Diana's sons first they get pilloried for it by people then and now. I suspect that Diana would have been pleased that the RF actually put the care of her sons first, as that was one thing that she advocated - the putting of family first on occasions. I remember the criticism that she made sure was levelled at Charles for going to a public function on the day that William was injured. How much more would she have been pleased to see Charles and the Queen supporting the boys after her death - i.e. when necessary retreating to being a family rather than being a 'public institution'.'

I have said it before and will continue saying it - the Queen acted correctly. The public did not. Diana had manipulated the public during her life through the press and the public were again manipulated during that week to turn on the RF who were supporting Diana's sons.

I will long remember Philip's words when the family returned to London and someone in the crowd yelled out words to the effect of 'Take care of those boys' and Philip replied 'What do you think we have been doing?' So true - the boys were put first as they rightly should have been and the mob should have felt ashamed of themselves for expecting anything else of the RF.
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  #272  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:11 PM
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I think that the Queen reacted appropriately. She did what needed to be done in order to prevent a continuation of the hysteria surrounding Diana's death--a hysteria which I believe was whipped up by the press. It's sad when a beautiful young woman dies, especially a young woman who at one time embodied so many people's hopes and dreams. As Princess of Wales, though, Diana's first responsibility was to support the Queen in her role--not to be famous in her own right or want to be "queen of people's hearts." Did I admire Diana? Yes. Did I feel sad when she died? Yes. Do I remember her with fondness and affection? Yes. Do I think that she was self-indulgent and self-centered? Also, yes. IMO the Queen did nothing to deserve the hatred that was directed her way after Diana's death.
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  #273  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:26 PM
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I'd like some evidence that the Queen didn't like Diana. In book after book it says that the Queen was sympathetic toward her and tried to help her long after other members of the family had given up on her.

Considering that Diana was trying to take on the role of Queen of Hearts, which is a direct challenge to the Queen in a constitutional monarchy, I think the Queen behaved with remarkable patience until the time when Diana pushed her too far by challenging her in public. The notion that Diana was the best thing that happened to the monarchy in hundreds of years, given that baggage, is debatable to say the least. A few hundred years ago she'd have found herself in the Tower on a charge of high treason if she'd pulled a stunt like that.
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  #274  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:34 PM
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The boys were a priority, but they weren't the only priority. In Christopher Andersen's book, 'After Diana', he states that both the Queen and Charles made calls inquiring about any royal jewelry Diana may have had with her in Paris. He quotes a Nurse Humbert. Grief stricken?? Or business first?? Add to that the reported question from Harry, "Is mummy really dead." Add to that that the Queen didn't want Charles to fly to Paris and that she didn't want Diana's body to be placed in a royal chapel. Consider the silence from the RF, where a simple statement from Charles (on behalf of Diana's sons) would have gone far.

Let us consider all this before we talk about the hysterical crowds and what they demanded of the RF. The RF was hardly blameless in the week long escalation of ill will. And perhaps Earl Spencer wasn't always the best brother to Diana but, IMO, he said things that needed to be said.
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  #275  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
In Christopher Andersen's book, 'After Diana', he states that both the Queen and Charles made calls inquiring about any royal jewelry Diana may have had with her in Paris.
The Queen and Charles themselves called to get jewelry? I don't believe that at all.

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Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
The RF was hardly blameless in the week long escalation of ill will.
I'll ask again: What should they have done differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
And perhaps Earl Spencer wasn't always the best brother to Diana but, IMO, he said things that needed to be said.
Trashing the family of the deceased's children at the funeral is never called for.
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  #276  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:50 PM
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I don't see any problem with calling to ask whether Diana had any Royal Jewelry with her when she died. Expensive things have a way of "disappearing" when they aren't accounted for, and it's responsible ownership to want to know what happens to valuables after an emergency. Also, what went on at Balmoral after Diana's death is up for debate. There are at least two different accounts circulating about what happened.

When there's an accident, someone has to be blamed in the public mind. At first the paparazzi was blamed, then the press in general, then the press attacked the Royal Family--and the Queen in particular. The Queen wasn't reponsible for Diana getting into that Mercedes and being driven to her death, but she was blamed for everything that happened after that. I don't think that's fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
In Christopher Andersen's book, 'After Diana', he states that both the Queen and Charles made calls inquiring about any royal jewelry Diana may have had with her in Paris. He quotes a Nurse Humbert. Grief stricken?? Or business first?? Add to that the reported question from Harry, "Is mummy really dead." Add to that that the Queen didn't want Charles to fly to Paris and that she didn't want Diana's body to be placed in a royal chapel. Consider the silence from the RF, where a simple statement from Charles (on behalf of Diana's sons) would have gone far.

Let us consider all this before we talk about the hysterical crowds and what they demanded of the RF. The RF was hardly blameless in the week long escalation of ill will. And perhaps Earl Spencer wasn't always the best brother to Diana but, IMO, he said things that needed to be said.
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  #277  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:11 PM
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The Queen and Charles themselves called to get jewelry? I don't believe that at all.
Charles spoke to the nurse personally. The Queen's inquiry was made through the British Consul's office. It's on page 10 and 11 of the book.

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I'll ask again: What should they have done differently?.
I don't know what more I can add to my last comment. I understand that a reason can be given for each issue I brought up, but the fact remains that the RF underestimated the public's reaction and perhaps they dug their heels in because it probably annoyed them.

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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
Trashing the family of the deceased's children at the funeral is never called for.
I don't think it trashed them. Perhaps the truth hurt, but I really don't think it was his intention to trash them.
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  #278  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
Charles spoke to the nurse personally. The Queen's inquiry was made through the British Consul's office. It's on page 10 and 11 of the book.
I believe that it's in the book. I just don't believe that it's true.

Quote:
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Perhaps the truth hurt, but I really don't think it was his intention to trash them.
He should have had some people look over his speeches that week, then.
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  #279  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:16 PM
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I'm not so sure he didn't go out of his way to trash the royals, but I think there was some self-preservation involved. I think we were seeing some of the same things that went on with the press. It didn't emerge till later that Lord Spencer was at the Abbey with his girlfriend and that he'd been treating his wife rather badly, to say nothing of the boorish way he treated Raine when his father died, or that he was estranged from Diana when she died. I don't recall whether the information about his refusing to let her move into that house on the Althorp estate had been made public by then. He had plenty of problems himself when it came to ill treatment of someone marrying into the family and in terms of not treating Diana particularly well. Where better to deflect the blame? Must have helped his conscience more than a little to dump it all on the royals - who aren't in the habit of answering back, at least in public - and make those wonderful public promises to William and Harry. What a hero.
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  #280  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:27 PM
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He should have had some people look over his speeches that week, then.
Perhaps, but if we're asked to cut some slack for a family that Diana was no longer a part of (as we keep reading here), then maybe we could do the same for her brother.
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