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  #61  
Old 06-12-2015, 04:48 PM
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^^^^^ how can you now use they "all equal" defence when you yourself in many posts on TRF have made clear that you consider royals not equal with commoners, and always making a distinct differentiation between the two...
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  #62  
Old 06-12-2015, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I think its interesting that by these actions Cristina still is titled, Infanta and HRH but Inaki is now simply Mr Urdangarin (even if he never held the title in his own right he is no longer part of the Duke & Duchess of Palma de Mallorca).
He still holds the style of Excelentísimo as the spouse of an infanta.

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  #63  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:11 PM
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Actually he holds the style of Excellency as a Grandee of Spain and as holder of Grand Collar of Merit in Sports.
As the Duke of Parma he also held the same style as a courtesy.
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  #64  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:17 PM
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[she is not convicted yet, though with such actions the king obviously does convict his sister before the judge does. I suppose it puts the throne in a more comfortable position for now and it may be a pragmatic and sensible move, but at what price? I think highly of the new king and queen, but this action before any guilt is legally proven is not very edifying IMHO though I am sure it will be a popular move. ]quote Marengo

I agree that Felipe is doing what he feels is necessary to clean house. He is in an unenviable position, but he is scoring points with the press and the public and that is what's important-for now. His integrity is unquestioned, his personal popularity higher than ever. Mission accomplished.

But I am convinced that the monarchy in Spain is doomed anyway. Whether he sticks it to his sister or not the whole house of cards will fall within the next 25 years if not sooner.

So in the end, what are the Borbons left with? A Spanish Republic and an irreparably damaged family.

By throwing his sister(prematurely I believe) to the wolves all Felipe is doing is buying the Crown a little more time. In the end, years from now, I hope he still believes it was worth it.
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  #65  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis View Post
lol
I don't feel sorry at all for her. What goes around comes around
I agree with you. And the King must precautions crown and this makes.
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  #66  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Excelentísimo Señor is a form of address held by hundreds and hundreds of gentlemen. So that is not such a spectacular form of address.
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  #67  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
[she is not convicted yet, though with such actions the king obviously does convict his sister before the judge does. I suppose it puts the throne in a more comfortable position for now and it may be a pragmatic and sensible move, but at what price? I think highly of the new king and queen, but this action before any guilt is legally proven is not very edifying IMHO though I am sure it will be a popular move. ]quote Marengo

I agree that Felipe is doing what he feels is necessary to clean house. He is in an unenviable position, but he is scoring points with the press and the public and that is what's important-for now. His integrity is unquestioned, his personal popularity higher than ever. Mission accomplished.

But I am convinced that the monarchy in Spain is doomed anyway. Whether he sticks it to his sister or not the whole house of cards will fall within the next 25 years if not sooner.

So in the end, what are the Borbons left with? A Spanish Republic and an irreparably damaged family.

By throwing his sister(prematurely I believe) to the wolves all Felipe is doing is buying the Crown a little more time. In the end, years from now, I hope he still believes it was worth it.

Why do you say the monarchy in Spain is doomed anyway ? None of the two main political parties in Spain (PP and PSOE) support abolishing the monarchy. I don't see any realistic chance of Spain becoming a republic until one of them (most likely the Socialists) change their stance on the issue.
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  #68  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
^^^^^ how can you now use they "all equal" defence when you yourself in many posts on TRF have made clear that you consider royals not equal with commoners, and always making a distinct differentiation between the two...
There is a clear difference between royals and commoners when we look to descendance. But when someone claims that anyone is equal for law, this case is the best proof that Infanta Doña Cristina is not treated equal at all. King Felipe would not revoke any noble title from a Spaniard without any base like "Justice has spoken, Justice must be done". None of all this, in the case of Doña Cristina. Just a weak howling with the woolfs, while Prime Minister Rajoy is up into his neck in the sh*t with his Partido Popular (as are any other political parties, by the way). Well, well... I am impressed... *not*.

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  #69  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:29 PM
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I wonder if King Felipe will discontinue the tradition of bestowing royal dukedoms upon marriage?
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  #70  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
I wonder if King Felipe will discontinue the tradition of bestowing royal dukedoms upon marriage?
There is no any reason for that. Infanta Doña Beatriz, Infanta Doña Pilar, Infanta Doña Margarita, Infanta Doña Elena, all of them have been fine royals. Why "punish" Infanta Doña Leonor and Infanta Doña Sofía with this ill-thought, clumsy and pre-eliminary "action" by their father?
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  #71  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:37 PM
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It would be smart to give up your sucession rights and your H.R.H Infanta title on your own free will.
Like f.e. ministers resign when there is no confidence in their performance
As there is clearly a lack of confidence she should resign, otherwise there will always be that feeling of doubt aound her.

If she would really have been innocent it would have been known already a long time ago.
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  #72  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sjetajiem View Post
It would be smart to give up your sucession rights and your H.R.H Infanta title on your own free will.
Like f.e. ministers resign when there is no confidence in their performance
She can not give up her title as this can only be done by a special Act which has to pass Parliament. And... why should she? I would recommend: wait until Justice has spoken. It is all so premature.
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  #73  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:46 PM
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It is all so premature.
His Majesty's FIRST duty is to protect [and thus preserve] the reputation of the throne. That is what [by this act] he IS doing.
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  #74  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
She can not give up her title as this can only be done by a special Act which has to pass Parliament. And... why should she? I would recommend: wait until Justice has spoken. It is all so premature.
And is Justice speak and say innocent then what? Returns in Spain represented the King in various events and it's all good?
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  #75  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:03 PM
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King Felipe come across as subservient and weak-minded. Chances of Infanta Christina and her children to ascend the throne are non-existent.
It is short-sighted on King Felipe's part and his advisors' part to placate crowds.
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  #76  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
And is Justice speak and say innocent then what? Returns in Spain represented the King in various events and it's all good?
That's what I'd like to know as well. Then what?
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  #77  
Old 06-12-2015, 08:15 PM
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Re:Infanta Cristina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
For what would she be blamed? I hope she isn't still victimized as she actually seems like a strong lady to me.

***
I see the 'innocent until proven guilty' is not a sentiment shared by many, including the court and the king. Nobody has been convicted yet so it seems a bit premature. Though this action shows that the royal court has not a lot of faith in what will happen next. Perhaps rightly so.

I suppose it makes the court look pro-active. That it was the king withdrawing the title distances him even further from the mess, which is a sensible harm-reduction policy. If Cristina would have given up the title herself the sentiment would most likely be 'why didn't she give up her HRH too?' While now she seems to be punished and humiliated which may apease some of the Spanish public for now.
I can't help but feel sorry for the family. They must have suffered a lot these last years and the list of humiliations is not over yet. Of course it is self-inlicted, but still... I am sure that many in Spain and elsewhere will be gloating over this but I don't think it wise to beat somebody who is already down.
I agree with you.I feel a lot for that Family.Besides, I don´t understand why this case has taken so long to be decided?It seems like it´s been dragged down on and on and on forever.If they are guilty as they say, they should have had a decision a long time ago.And I thought Brazilian law was slow!
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  #78  
Old 06-12-2015, 08:21 PM
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Maybe, just maybe - the King knows more about the background to this case than the general public. Maybe, he isn't expecting the Infanta Cristina to be found innocent.
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  #79  
Old 06-12-2015, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Florestane View Post
Maybe, just maybe - the King knows more about the background to this case than the general public. Maybe, he isn't expecting the Infanta Cristina to be found innocent.
That is entirely possible. I can't imagine that the attorneys for the SRF have not had some sort of briefing, or perhaps have been permitted to look at the evidence themselves.
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  #80  
Old 06-12-2015, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Okay. Give me your drive license. Now. You have not been found guilty, you have not been convicted. But give me your drive license. Now.

Exactly the same principle. What will happen when the Court of Justice decides that there is no sufficient ground for the claims laid down on the Infanta? Will she be restored then? It is all so premature and shows Don Felipe as a man of little principle.

So to see the basic principle Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof is on he who declares, not on he who denies), is not in good hands with the King. He has already declared his sister guilty.


It's not the same thing at all. This action was taken after years of investigation and years of legal wrangling. There is every indication that the accusations are not empty.
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