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  #21  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:32 AM
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What about her husband ????
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  #22  
Old 06-12-2015, 05:52 AM
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Her husband is now officialy mr. Urdangarin
Dutch press reports that the stripping of the Parma de Mallorca title is mend to put pressure on Cristina to give up her succession rights and her title of Infanta (Princess of Spain) herself and become mrs Christina Borbon otherwise the Royal House will be forced to announce that publicly
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  #23  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:02 AM
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Is that technically possible for her to do? I would assume there would be a law needed for that, or a decree at least. I know that in the Netherlands that would be impossible as parlement would need to get involved. Would it mean she would renounce her own succession rights only or also those of her children?

Giving up succession rights WHEN she is convicted may be sensible, as would be the withdrawal of the ducal title. Forcing her to change her name to Cristina de Borbon: I do not see the point. Can it actually be done, legally speaking? I don't recall that it ever happened before in the history of royalty, save during the French revolution and I am not sure if the situation is that desperate yet.

And again: she is not convicted yet, though with such actions the king obviously does convict his sister before the judge does. I suppose it puts the throne in a more comfortable position for now and it may be a pragmatic and sensible move, but at what price? I think highly of the new king and queen, but this action before any guilt is legally proven is not very edifying IMHO though I am sure it will be a popular move.
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:08 AM
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The Royal House has done everything they could do.

She can renounce her dynastic rights, but that is a personal decision.

The other option is that the Parliament would remove the rights, but that would require a law was passed, and probably only be done if she is judged and condemned and she does not resign voluntarily.
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  #25  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:13 AM
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I think her children will retain their succession rights.. they cannot be renounced [on their behalf], by her.. also why should the 'sins of the father, be visited on the children' ?
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  #26  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:14 AM
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Given all the damage that the NOOS scandal has caused the Spanish Crown this can only be a positive step in repairing some of the damage,King Felipe is doing something I doubt his father would have done if he were still the monarch.
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  #27  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:17 AM
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So no Don Inaki Duke of Palma anymore ! but only Inaki U.
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  #28  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:23 AM
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He was never really a Duke in his own right,his wife was is a Spanish Infanta and held the title of Duchess from 1997-2015.
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  #29  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:43 AM
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All in all I think it was the best negotiated decision: revoking her position on the succession list would have been too much... So this is the best Felipe could do.. And if I am not mistaken, there has been rumours of complaints coming from the people of Palma about Cristina still having her title...
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  #30  
Old 06-12-2015, 06:48 AM
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Yes I remember those too (Palma residents complaining). And in their place I would be complaining too probably.

Still, they could have waited until after the trial. Nobody is legally proven guilty yet. That is what should count in a state of law, which Spain is. Presumption of Innocence is something that is written in both EU as Spanish law.

However, I do not know how the situation in Spain is and perhaps it was needed to throw a piece of meat to the wolves. I am sure the kings popularity rating will go further up and he will be applauded for this action by most. That he distances himself from this mess is a good thing for the monarchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty91charmed
All in all I think it was the best negotiated decision: revoking her position on the succession list would have been too much... So this is the best Felipe could do..
You may have hit the nail on the head here.
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  #31  
Old 06-12-2015, 07:03 AM
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I don't know how the law works in Spain and I am aware that in many countries the law is indeed in actuality "Guilty until Proven Innocent".

I thought the case had come to trial and been heard and that this was a logical response to a guilty verdict. Now it seems not so.

So, I am torn. Should Christina figuratively throw herself on her sword if she believes she is innocent? Or is this just because the whole affair has brought dishonor to the Crown and Innocence is irrelevant?

I am not familiar with Spanish law and certainly not this case. Any unbiased recommendations?
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  #32  
Old 06-12-2015, 07:06 AM
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But this is not a trial. This doesn't mean she's guilty or that she was innocent before. This is a consequence of the irreparable harm she's done to the Crown. I don't think people understand how bad her PR situation is in Spain (and her family's thanks to her). As of now, she's going to trial for defrauding the Spanish people with her husband, and most of that money was public money from Palma. As a member of the Royal Family since birth, as an Infanta of Spain, as the Duchess of Palma de Mallorca, her husband and Cristina "played" with public money and made, at best, shady business dealings trying to avoid taxes. That's not even up for discussion and she willingly paid money to make up for her tax fraud.
That this just happened to become public at the time of a horrible economic crisis in Spain was the cherry on top. The RF, revered and popular through even the crisis, received a terrible hit. The fact that she has done nothing to make it easier for her father first and now for her brother (nobody can deny that her legal troubles were a big reason for her father's abdication), that her husband kept using Duke of Palma de Mallorca as if he didn't know it was a slap in the face to the people of Palma and to the King...made the situation unbearable. Unlike what Cristina thinks, being an Infanta doesn't come with perks and privileges only, it comes with duties and a huge responsibility towards the King, Spain and the Spanish people.
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  #33  
Old 06-12-2015, 07:26 AM
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In addition, there is a missing point that I think very important in this discussion. There have been, as said, numerous complains from different corporations from Palma asking for removing the title from them since the scandal came out. Obviously, some political groups are actively involved in these complains.

Well, as you may know, some weeks ago we had regional and local elections in Spain, and some municipalities have seen many changes. One of them is Palma de Mallorca's, that will be now in charge of a leftish coalition. The Mayor of the city-to-be will be taking possession of his charge tomorrow. His group has already said that they would formally asked for the revocation of the title. Roumours even said he would be announcing it on hs first speech on Saturday.

I think the Royal House just saw that coming and anticipated to the events. Now it looks like their own decision and not a forced one by political pressure. Also, they avoid the headlines that a decision of the local government would have made and turn them on their (the King and RH) fovour.
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  #34  
Old 06-12-2015, 07:43 AM
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Thanks Ana and Annie. That clarifies a lot.

A poster at the FIRMB wonders if it may be a way to prepare the stage for a plea bargain. We will see...
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  #35  
Old 06-12-2015, 08:35 AM
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Do you think that King Felipe and Infanta Cristina are still talking to each other?
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  #36  
Old 06-12-2015, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
According to ABC newspaper, King Felipe has signed a decree withdrawing Infanta Cristina the title of Duchess of Palma de Mallorca. It will be official tomorrow.

El Rey revoca el t?tulo de Duquesa de Palma a Do?a Cristina - ABC.es
Very good step!!Next step,strip her of her place in line to the Throne and subsequently her Royal title,she's not worth it!

I admire Felipe's courage and straightforwardness in handling this matter altogether
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  #37  
Old 06-12-2015, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I see the 'innocent until proven guilty' is not a sentiment shared by many, including the court and the king. Nobody has been convicted yet so it seems a bit premature. Though this action shows that the royal court has not a lot of faith in what will happen next. Perhaps rightly so.

I suppose it makes the court look pro-active. That it was the king withdrawing the title distances him even further from the mess, which is a sensible harm-reduction policy. If Cristina would have given up the title herself the sentiment would most likely be 'why didn't she give up her HRH too?' While now she seems to be punished and humiliated which may apease some of the Spanish public for now.

I can't help but feel sorry for the family. They must have suffered a lot these last years and the list of humiliations is not over yet. Of course it is self-inlicted, but still... I am sure that many in Spain and elsewhere will be gloating over this but I don't think it wise to beat somebody who is already down.

I'm sorry but this is a naive sentiment. Of course the removal of the ducal title wouldn't have been done lightly, so the presumption must be that the evidence shows something about what Iñaki and Cristina were doing.

Also, there are situations where everything is over but the shouting, in in this case the verdict. There is a substantial amount of evidence that Felipe and the govt ministers are going to have access to - are they supposed to wait for a court to decide the case?
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  #38  
Old 06-12-2015, 08:58 AM
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Why haven't they been "tried" for their crimes yet? Is something delaying the process?
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  #39  
Old 06-12-2015, 09:01 AM
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If Cristina would be removed from the line of succession, does it mean that also her children would loose her place?
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  #40  
Old 06-12-2015, 09:47 AM
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King Felipe strips sister Infanta Cristina of title - hellomagazine.com

So, after Felipe revoke Cristina's title, is this means that there will be a trial soon for her and her husband?
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