Iñaki, Cristina and the NOOS Corruption Investigation Part 1 (2011-2014)

[Alondra]

I have a "what if" question:
If Spain were not in the position is now with its terrible economy and high unemployement rates, would this whole issue be pushed under the rug?
What do you think?

The judicial investigation opened on July 2010, and it appears he had been investigated on since 2006-08 (different sources give different dates - considering the sensivity of the information I think is understandable).

Long before the current economic Spanish/European serious problems however.

 

[Kleio]

I think it's unrealistic to expect from any royal house, not just the SRF, not to take advantage of their positions even in the most transparent of circumstances. We all rely on a network of connections when we need to knock on professional doors.

Spain has always had a very strong social conscience. Nothing would make us react more than the injustice of "being taken advantage of" from those considered to be in the elite. We love our RF and see them as a modern institution bringing to the nation connections, stability and continuity. But we don't want crooks, and even less those "by association".

Inaki is being investigated by the judicial system in Spain, and both him and Cristina will pay for their illegal activities one way or another. Having said this, I also want to point out that when it comes to illegal royal activities, I think Spain is setting a benchmark how to deal judicially with the criminal conduct of some of their members, and setting them aside from public activities.

Alondra, don't you think that their entire lifestyle is already the greatest of the advantages for Royal members??? They've got access to the best education (which is so important), they don't worry about common things like paying the bills or making interviews to get a job... If we think, we can find a thousand things they have not to worry about... I do not think they really need much more advantages... Their whole life is an advantage!

You say both Iñaki and Cristina will pay for it, one way or another, and I agree with you in that: in fact, I think Cristina is the one who is paying it the most, right now.

 

[Princess Peach]

It may not have gotten the same level of attention but the Spanish people are not fickle.Remember there is a strong Republican movement in Spain who would not have let this scandal be swept under the rug whether it was 2006 or 2012.

I agree. The Spanish people are very politically astute. They have had to be so for the last 80 years or so.

 

[royaltywatcher]

Am I the only one that is still just amazed that this is happening? That this happy, attractive couple, great parents to beautiful children, members of a privileged royal family, are involved in something like this? I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

It seems most people here feel they would pay in the usual way people pay for these things (trials, possibly imprisonment). But the terrible shame of it all may actually be worse, at least for Cristina. She must be just horrified at what she has done to her own family, her parents, her siblings and most of all her children. I actually feel badly for her.

 

[Princess Peach]

Am I the only one that is still just amazed that this is happening? That this happy, attractive couple, great parents to beautiful children, members of a privileged royal family, are involved in something like this? I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

It seems most people here feel they would pay in the usual way people pay for these things (trials, possibly imprisonment). But the terrible shame of it all may actually be worse, at least for Cristina. She must be just horrified at what she has done to her own family, her parents, her siblings and most of all her children. I actually feel badly for her.

You're assuming she feels shame and horror at her actions. Not everyone does. I cannot feel sorry for her if she is involved. Surely she realized the high stakes of her and Inaki's involvement and apparently did not care. She had to have known that she was placing the entire royal family's position in jeopardy, and did it anyway. There are millions of people suffering in Spain. Millions. And she took a position of enormous privilege and may have used it to embezzle money (allegedly). I feel sorry for her children who are too young to realize the full import of this.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I rather believe that she felt and still feels entitled, like the rest of the SRF. Her attitude certainly does come from somewhere.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Speculative posts regarding posters 'opinions' on the parenting skills of the Duke and Duchess of Palma have been removed and any further off topic posts will also be removed.

 

[Winnie]

I rather believe that she felt and still feels entitled, like the rest of the SRF. Her attitude certainly does come from somewhere.

I believe in part of what you say. Apprently she feels entitled but that does not mean that the entire royal family does. Just like "normal" families, there will ALWAYS be that one relative that for some reason feels that they are entitled. They should get all they can no matter what or who they hurt. A slight selfish streak. This person is usually the "sweetie" of the family. I have one in my family and my husband's youngest of seven siblings feels that the world revolved around him. It is a selfish selfcentered personality.

This is not necessarily Cristina's fault. She was raised to feel that way and the other siblings let her have her way. They had their own separate lives. But, having said that, once a person gets to an age, all responsibility for their actions MUST fall on their own head. Time for excuses are over. Breaking the law is one of those times when one must pay no matter who they are. Families might help them out, but if the crime is bad enough, even the family must distance themselves from the criminal. Usually this personality type has no real shame for their bad doing. Afterall, they felt entitled and "got away" with it for years.

 

[Kleio]

But the terrible shame of it all may actually be worse, at least for Cristina. She must be just horrified at what she has done to her own family, her parents, her siblings and most of all her children. I actually feel badly for her.

That's exactly what I meant when I said that I think that Cristina is paying for it already... This is the worst punishment for her (because I'm sure she will never be formally charged and I really think Iñaki won't go to prison). But the shame, being forced to be far from her people, her country and many of her privileges... That has to be really hurting for her!
But
I would'nt say that she felt entitled: she probably never thought about the consequences of what they were doing and she thought she would always be protected by her position... They were not very smart.

 

[donnaK]

I rather believe that she felt and still feels entitled, like the rest of the SRF. Her attitude certainly does come from somewhere.

I don't understand why you always had to include the whole SRF. Obviously Felipe had not been approving his sister and BIL's doings and moved away from them years ago. JC had always been helping and supporting Cristina and Inaki, only 'dropped' them in public when they got into serious trouble to defend the monarchy, but behind the door, he is still helping them. So Cristina probably felt 'safe', didn't think anyone dared to touch her as long as she had Daddy's protection, only time has changed, media has changed in Spain now.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I don't understand why you always had to include the whole SRF. Obviously Felipe had not been approving his sister and BIL's doings and moved away from them years ago. JC had always been helping and supporting Cristina and Inaki, only 'dropped' them in public when they got into serious trouble to defend the monarchy, but behind the door, he is still helping them. So Cristina probably felt 'safe', didn't think anyone dared to touch her as long as she had Daddy's protection, only time has changed, media has changed in Spain now.

With regard to "feeling entitled" I didnt specifically rely to the Inaki case but also to the moral mindset of the SRF.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - JC didnt get on the Spanish throne and is still there because he is such a jovial and down to earth guy. All other family members will have learned from him a lesson or two in that respect, especially Felipe. Inaki being out of his depth wasnt part of the plan.

 

[lula]

The situation of the King and the Royal Family is not the same, the protection that has the King as Head of State does not have the rest of the Royal Family. The infantas and especially the prince knows it, maybe the error of Iñaki was thinking that he was going to be like the King. I refer not only to the press or public opinion, but the laws themselves.

Recently in the press, has appeared more than once the concern of many lawyers on the situation of the prince, more now that he has to replace his father on many occasions. In Spain there are many aspects of the monarchy that the law has not developed, and the Prince and the other members of the family are more vulnerable than other institutional charges.

 

[Alondra]

b

Alondra, don't you think that their entire lifestyle is already the greatest of the advantages for Royal members??? They've got access to the best education (which is so important), they don't worry about common things like paying the bills or making interviews to get a job... If we think, we can find a thousand things they have not to worry about... I do not think they really need much more advantages... Their whole life is an advantage!

You say both Iñaki and Cristina will pay for it, one way or another, and I agree with you in that: in fact, I think Cristina is the one who is paying it the most, right now.

Kleio, personally I've always thought that royalty, as such, should have been obsolete by now. I am a republican at heart - I don't agree with privileged lives earned by reason of birth, and not merit.

Having said that, I also believe that parliamentary monarchy in Spain is the lesser of a devil. Juan Carlos and Casa Real has given Spain more than they taken from Spain along the years. It gave our early democracy a balance against the excesses of politicians, and a safeguard against dictatorship.

While JC might be reviled today in forums, IMO, he's done an amazing job. I also think that Felipe and Letizia will be more amazing than JC & S have been. If they get the chance.

 

[Zonk]

Maybe I am confused about what is opinions and facts.

IMO it maybe that your opinion that the press had turned a blind eye to some of the dealings of the SRF but you state it as if it as a fact that the press had turned a blind eye to these dealings.

If that is case, of course people are going to want somethiing to back up your statement to show that their is a pattern of this type of behavior by members of the SRF.

 

[Warren]

Closed for Moderator review.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

According to El Mundo, with the new contract, Urdangarín will receive a salary of 1.5 million euro as well as 1.2 million euro in-kind. The compensation in the event of termination would be 4.5 million euro.
The news has caused an outcry, especially since a few days after the news, the most severe budget cuts that the country has seen in recent history were announced.
Spain: King’s Controversial Son-in-law Gets Salary in Millions · Global Voices

 

[Carminha Stalker]

So far as I know, NOBODY has been convicted yet of anything.If the Infanta has decided to go to Marivent with her children, I suppose she has the approval of the Queen.
There are many reason why Spanish people should be angry and frustrated right now, and I understand this, because the economic crisis in Europe is very bad. But, this crisis wasn´t engendered by the Infanta nor her husband.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Crecen las presiones del rey a los duques de Palma

Growing pressure from the King on the Dukes of Palma

Cristina choses to stay with Inaki to put up a united front. The King is not happy about it, wants to distance himself from Inaki as much as possible. The article speculates that both King & Prince would like to see a divorce and get rid of Inaki a la Jaime de Marichalar, welcoming back Cristina who could play the dumb housewife, into the family's lap. It has been said that Cristina misses Spain, her friends & family but there is hardly a future for Inaki in Spain.

Once again, the Queen is the only connecting link between the separate camps.

 

[lula]

The media is creating a lot of rumors, we can only wait and see what happens.

Actually, the separation or divorce would be a partial solution, it only would separate Urdangarín of the Royal Family. But no one believes that the infanta is totally innocent, that she was a "stupid" wife who did not know what her husband was doing. She is the infanta and has a responsibility, shadows on her attitude in this story are and will be there for long. Leave her husband, when things go wrong, would not say much about her.

The attitude of both is complicating more and more things. It seems they are totally on the defensive, without recognizing their mistakes and worrying about only themselves.

Infanta Cristina has to be separated from the Royal Family, leaving her public responsibility and privileges. That is the only true solution to the problem. And once away, she does with her ​​private life what she wants.

 

[susan alicia]

i do not understand, it is perhaps a language problem and or I do not know enough about the case.

She can be innocent of HIS wrongdoing while knowing about it, during or after his actions and knowing about it makes her neither stupid nor intelligent.

why should they divorce? they might if his actions disgust her but it is a private matter. I think I would drop someone like a hot potato if I lost respect but things are always more complicated.
I do not think that her being an infanta obligates her to divorce him since she is innocent of his accepting bribes (I think that is what he is accused of)

How do people know that they do not recognize mistakes and worry only about themselves? It is now surely up to the judicial system to make things clear.

The media is creating a lot of rumors, we can only wait and see what happens.

Actually, the separation or divorce would be a partial solution, it only would separate Urdangarín of the Royal Family. But no one believes that the infanta is totally innocent, that she was a "stupid" wife who did not know what her husband was doing. She is the infanta and has a responsibility, shadows on her attitude in this story are and will be there for long. Leave her husband, when things go wrong, would not say much about her.

The attitude of both is complicating more and more things. It seems they are totally on the defensive, without recognizing their mistakes and worrying about only themselves.

Infanta Cristina has to be separated from the Royal Family, leaving her public responsibility and privileges. That is the only true solution to the problem. And once away, she does with her ​​private life what she wants.

 

[Carminha Stalker]

I agree totally with you,SUSAN ALICIA.
The rumors fly around and there are even people who know what the Infanta thinks(!).
What makes me very sceptic is that if Urdangarin is the monster he is supposed to be, why is this dragging on and on and on.Meanwhile, I know there are people who wish they could make the whole Urdangarin family invisible, Cristina divorce her husband and say publicly he is the worst since Nero, her leaving the Royal family and exiling herself somewhere and on and on.
God help these rightful people if they ever are accused of something.

 

[lula]

Infanta Cristina has a public responsibility, is a member of the Royal Family, and has obligations and privileges. Her responsibility was to ensure that her husband is behaving correctly and did not. If your husband was earning millions of euros made ​​easy with his business, the responsibility of the Infanta was ask and know where that money came from.

They should accept that they have done wrong, and act consistently. Infanta Cristina can not hope to live as always, if she wants to continue with her husband has to give up her privileges as a member of the Royal Family. And if she wants to maintain her privileges, she will have to give up her husband.

One thing is the legal responsibility that the judges will determine ... but there is a moral responsibility to the Monarchy and the Spanish people.

Spain is undergoing a profound crisis ... people are unemployed, have economic problems, suffer social cuts...people is very angry... that a person, with all privileges, has been enriched with public money, is totally unforgivable for citizens. Spain needs now a strong monarchy, and not constantly exposed to the lurching of Urdangarín and the Infanta.

 

[susan alicia]

I suppose it is dragging on because both parties want to get it right, it is important more than ever that in a case like this "justice be done"

 

[susan alicia]

Lula, I agree with your last paragraph with all my heart!

I think we should wait for the court to descide.
If he is found guilty than I agree, as long as they are married she should not receive money from the state and not remain an official member of the royal family. To me the main function of a royal family is to encourage patriotism, they must -as far as humanely possible- do no wrong.
I did think later on that if Christina did not know some people did and they could have stopped it before happening.

Infanta Cristina has a public responsibility, is a member of the Royal Family, and has obligations and privileges. Her responsibility was to ensure that her husband is behaving correctly and did not. If your husband was earning millions of euros made ​​easy with his business, the responsibility of the Infanta was ask and know where that money came from.

They should accept that they have done wrong, and act consistently. Infanta Cristina can not hope to live as always, if she wants to continue with her husband has to give up her privileges as a member of the Royal Family. And if she wants to maintain her privileges, she will have to give up her husband.

One thing is the legal responsibility that the judges will determine ... but there is a moral responsibility to the Monarchy and the Spanish people.

Spain is undergoing a profound crisis ... people are unemployed, have economic problems, suffer social cuts...people is very angry... that a person, with all privileges, has been enriched with public money, is totally unforgivable for citizens. Spain needs now a strong monarchy, and not constantly exposed to the lurching of Urdangarín and the Infanta.

 

[lula]

Justice is only part of this story, justice will judge the crimes.

But in these cases, there's a moral component ... an exemplary duty, service to citizens, responsibility... and that is judged by the citizens. And you can not vote the Monarchy every four years, so when they act badly, they should know corrected to regain the trust of citizens.

The King's trip to Botswana was a huge mistake... but the first thing he did was to recognize his mistake and apologize to the citizens. And after, recovering from an operation, set to work to help the country.

The problem is that the perception that citizens have of Urdangarín case, is that they do not admit having acted wrongly and that despite being involved in an indictment, privileges remain... and this makes people increasingly angry.

 

[susan alicia]

But the moral aspect is clear after the courts have descided, his guilt has to be proven by facts. The privileges have to remain until then. Peception of a situation does not have power, hard facts do.
Is it known who the judge will be and how is he perceived in Spain?
Who is the accuser, what kind of lawfirm represents them in the court?

I do think that he would not be in this situation if he was not gullty but that is just my intuition, my perception of the situation.

 

[lula]

Susan, I think you do not know the background of the problem, that here is principal.

The accuser is the Public Prosecutor, the case is of economic corruption with public money. Iñaki Urdangarín takes advantage of his position to get million euros contracts with public institutions, politicians pay much money just because he was the son-in-law of the King.That's a proven fact, now the judges will determine if it was legal or not.

If a private employer paid millions and there is a financial scandal is arguable or controversial ... but not so important. If a member of the Royal Family use his influence to enrich with public money, is something wrong, legal or not legal. So the acts of Urdangarín are bad from the beginning, he should never have done business with public money. So morally and in the eyes of citizens, regardless of the legality of his actions, his attitude is not ethical.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

If he is found guilty than I agree, as long as they are married she should not receive money from the state and not remain an official member of the royal family.

The only member of the SRF who receives public money is the King, and he distributes. According to the new transparency, Infanta Cristina only receives money when she works for the crown what she hasnt done since the scandal boilt up.

How can she not be an official member of the SRF? Who or what institution would make her give up who she is by birth and law, an Infanta of Spain, and on what basis? I cant see Cristina giving up or being made giving up succession rights on moral grounds = guilt by association.

 

[lula]

Duke is not just to receive public money or not, are all the privileges associated with membership to the Royal Family. For example, the Spanish state still pays police who protect them in Washington.

Infanta Cristina, if an honest person, should give up her privileges. Could keep the title of Infanta as her aunts, but without official representation or public privileges. Being a member of the Family of the King, but being out of the Royal Family. Would be best for her, her children and the institution. When this passes, I think that's the only option to recover the respect of people and to rebuild their lives.

I really think it was something she should have done, when they went to Washington and have solved many problems. Princess Martha Louise has done it, and now she lives happily dedicated to her angels.

The only problem is that apparently, the issue of resignations is not legally legislated. The Constitution provides for the possibility, but how the process should be, should be developed in a law that has never been done.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I really think it was something she should have done, when they went to Washington and have solved many problems. Princess Martha Louise has done it, and now she lives happily dedicated to her angels.

The only problem is that apparently, the issue of resignations is not legally legislated. The Constitution provides for the possibility, but how the process should be, should be developed in a law that has never been done.

This is what I meant, who will make her give up succession rights and on what basis? Can Cristina just say, I dont want to be an Infanta anymore?

RE Martha Louise, its not quite correct. She still is on fourth position in the line of succession to the Norwegian throne and retains her title as a Norwegian princess (although styled HH and not HRH), still carries out royal duties on behalf of the King, however reduced. So apart from the change in style, she still is very much involved.