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  #1661  
Old 11-15-2014, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Indeed Duc et Pair is correct that the VAST sums of {other peoples } money, poured into the economies and infrastructure of [relatively backward] regions of the EU, by the Brussels bureaucracy, had a profoundly corrupting effect.
These countries are now paying a very high price [in terms of debt, unemployement and poverty] for this, but also [importantly] in terms of the disillusionment with the system [and the powerful] the resultant corruption has caused...
The people have their masters and politicians are rotten to the core, and the alarming rise in extremist parties [both left and right] is a direct, and frightening result..
I find this comment so very close to home, my government over the years has become more and more corruput and so many people are giving up in believing in their government. Given the very poor turn out at this last election says something about America and it is not good. I have lived long enough to see the difference and greed and corruption are fast destroying this country and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it, so I sit and let it happen. Being a history buff, I have come to realize that all kingdoms, empires and world powers all fall down to dust and ashes given the corruput elected officials. I See that the same thing is happening world wide and unfortunately nothing can stop it as it's human nature for some to be greedy.
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  #1662  
Old 11-15-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SElizabeth View Post
I find this comment so very close to home, my government over the years has become more and more corruput and so many people are giving up in believing in their government. Given the very poor turn out at this last election says something about America and it is not good. I have lived long enough to see the difference and greed and corruption are fast destroying this country and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it, so I sit and let it happen. Being a history buff, I have come to realize that all kingdoms, empires and world powers all fall down to dust and ashes given the corruput elected officials. I See that the same thing is happening world wide and unfortunately nothing can stop it as it's human nature for some to be greedy.
The same mechanism happened in the DDR, the former East Germany. Recently we celebrated the 25th Anniversary of the Fall of the Berlin Wall. A year later the two German states re-united. The rich West pumped immense amounts of rock-hard Deutsche Marks into the bottomless pit which was the DDR. In the end it is a success story, more and more the old states of Sachsen, Thüringen, Mecklenburg, Brandenburg and Berlin are closing the gap with the states in the west. The enormous amount of money however had an "corruption effect": who gets the orders for the reconstruction of Berlin? Who will build the new infrastructures? Who will get the prestigious orders for the renovation of the historic inner city of Dresden? Who will deliver the new materials, weapon systems, planes, etc. for the two armies unified into one? Who will get the order to deliver the hundreds and hundreds new carriages for the merged German Railways? Who will deliver the 25.000 new police cars to replace the Trabants and the Wartburgs of the East-German police? It is unavoidable that people are "helping" each other, doing each other "a favour", etc.

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  #1663  
Old 11-15-2014, 03:05 PM
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The Infanta Cristina does not contemplate relinquishing her succession rights as per Bekia

La Infanta Cristina no contempla renunciar a sus derechos sucesorios - Bekia
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  #1664  
Old 11-15-2014, 04:24 PM
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el mundo reports that rumours about cristina giving up her place in the succession list are false and that she won't give her monarchic rights "either in the short or medium term". they also mention that neither juan carlos nor sofia seconded her giving up her place, but felipe seems to be of different opinion.

La Infanta Cristina no cede a las presiones para que renuncie a sus derechos din?sticos | loc | EL MUNDO
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  #1665  
Old 11-15-2014, 04:32 PM
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So basically it sounds like its all just speculation...and if it happens it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't. Cristina is behind Felipe, Lenor, Sofia, Elena and her children so at this point it doesn't matter if she does or doesn't.

I don't know what Cristina did or didn't do but I do know that there are plenty of spouses in the United States who sign income tax returns (making them liable for any debts) not knowing the particulars or the specifics of what they are signing. As a result, when they divorce or the primary spouse dies, they are on the hook for any debts/liens.
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  #1666  
Old 11-15-2014, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
So basically it sounds like its all just speculation...and if it happens it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't. Cristina is behind Felipe, Lenor, Sofia, Elena and her children so at this point it doesn't matter if she does or doesn't.
i have to disagree. this is not just about succession. we all know the probability of cristina becoming queen is thin, specially considering there's already 5 people in front of her. i think it would also be about saying sorry and showing at least a minor sign of regret, initially, to her country, which she represented diplomatically, and also to her brother, who is head of state at the moment, and has to pick up the pieces of this.
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  #1667  
Old 11-15-2014, 05:24 PM
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Exactly Carlota. One thing is the court case, that the judges should judge ... but Cristina, as Infanta and member of the Royal Family had a responsibility before the Spaniards... and has failed terribly.

What they did could be illegal or not, but she and her husband did not the right thing. And instead of recognizing at least they have not done well, apologizing for mistakes that have been committed, to make some small waiver of her privileges, her place in the succession or her title of Duchess (it is an absolute disgrace to the city they take that title when they robbed their citizens)... they have acted with absolute arrogance.

That arrogant attitude, that rejection of any guilt, expensive exile in Geneva ... have only contributed to anger citizens.
  #1668  
Old 11-15-2014, 05:34 PM
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There is no way - no way - she will renounce or give up anything unless she feels the need to throw a Hail Mary pass.
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  #1669  
Old 11-16-2014, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
i have to disagree. this is not just about succession. we all know the probability of cristina becoming queen is thin, specially considering there's already 5 people in front of her. i think it would also be about saying sorry and showing at least a minor sign of regret, initially, to her country, which she represented diplomatically, and also to her brother, who is head of state at the moment, and has to pick up the pieces of this.
Sorry for what? The saying of sorry implies acknowledgement of wrongdoing and that is exactly what she is fighting, she and her team deny any wrongdoing and wants to be cleared. For so far Infanta Cristina has a strong position as even the Office of the Public Prosecutor sees no case which can stand a tribunal, much to the chagrin of activists who wants to see the Infanta hang, against any price.
  #1670  
Old 11-16-2014, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
So basically it sounds like its all just speculation...and if it happens it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't. Cristina is behind Felipe, Lenor, Sofia, Elena and her children so at this point it doesn't matter if she does or doesn't.

I don't know what Cristina did or didn't do but I do know that there are plenty of spouses in the United States who sign income tax returns (making them liable for any debts) not knowing the particulars or the specifics of what they are signing. As a result, when they divorce or the primary spouse dies, they are on the hook for any debts/liens.
Most likely the tax assessments of the Infanta are done by an accountant and not by herself. In some Royal Houses there are special arrangements. For an example in the Netherlands, the King's Treasurer handles the tax assessments of the royal family directly with the highest official of the Tax Revenue Service. It is very well possible that the Dutch royals themselves have no or only a vague idea about their taxes as these are done for them by professionals. They trust on their well-paid professionals to handle everything correctly. I can imagine that Infanta Doña Cristina has no clue. The Infanta will only be on hook for any private debts or liens if these are exactly made inside the common marriage with Iñaki, assuming that the two personal fortunes are exactly separated by nuptial contract.
  #1671  
Old 11-17-2014, 04:00 AM
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It was not just the tax return, Cristina has been using Noos' credit card for personal expense until the last minute. After JC forced Inaki out of Noos, then sent him to DC, anyone seriously think Cristina didn't know the irregularities of Noos ? The Spanish law has always been very harsh towards wives/partners whose husbands involved in corruption. Isabel Pantoja is going to jail, thus most Spaniards believe Cristina is equally guilty as Isabel no matter what the final verdict is.
Felipe can't make the same mistake his father did and let C/I continue damaging the monarchy.
  #1672  
Old 11-17-2014, 05:09 AM
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What could Felipe do? Can he strip Cristina of her title or have the legal procedure checked for the succession?
Maybe they wait for the outcome of the case.
  #1673  
Old 11-17-2014, 06:51 AM
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Today, legally, a descendant of Juan Carlos I can only be away from the succession to the Crown, if the person is married against the opinion of the King and Parliament.

Infanta Cristina can resign, but the decision is free and voluntary, and should not have pressure.

So King Felipe's hands are tied, he can not take away her rights, nor can pressure her to resign, because then the waiver may be invalidated later.
  #1674  
Old 11-17-2014, 06:57 AM
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Thanks Lula, could he take away the Palma title that was given by his father?
  #1675  
Old 11-17-2014, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
Today, legally, a descendant of Juan Carlos I can only be away from the succession to the Crown, if the person is married against the opinion of the King and Parliament.

Infanta Cristina can resign, but the decision is free and voluntary, and should not have pressure.

So King Felipe's hands are tied, he can not take away her rights, nor can pressure her to resign, because then the waiver may be invalidated later.
Actually, she can voluntarily renounce her succession rights but the renunciation must be validated by an organic law passed by the Spanish parliament. Pretty much just like King Juan Carlos' abdication.
  #1676  
Old 11-17-2014, 07:15 AM
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Duke, in theory as is a title of the Crown, he could ... but I have not read any legal analysis on it to confirm it. Also, it's complicated because it would be a disgrace not only to Cristina, but also indirectly to King Juan Carlos, who granted it.

But it would be something just planteable when there is a final court decision.
  #1677  
Old 11-17-2014, 07:29 AM
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I can't see King Felipe forcing Cristina to do anything I'd imagine at this stage the damage has been done tenfold.
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  #1678  
Old 11-18-2014, 06:51 AM
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The Infanta Pilar,elder sister of King Juan Carlos spoke briefly about her niece Cristina

Pilar de Borbón sobre la situación de la infanta Cristina: Creo en la justicia - Noticias de Casas Reales
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  #1679  
Old 11-18-2014, 08:38 AM
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She was very discreet and revealed nothing... Good
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  #1680  
Old 11-18-2014, 09:23 AM
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And no journalists were eaten alive ... unlike 2012

http://www.elsemanaldigital.com/imag...anta-pilar.jpg
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